Is anyone familiar with the JVC SA-T400U TBC and questions??

[rbatty11]

Is it compatible with home/consumer equipment as a TBC? In the brochure, it says it uses for input/output video, BNC and 7-pin Y/C 358 connectors.. is the latter just straight S-Video consumer cables? I'm just archiving VHS home movies to DVD using JVC DH40000 as source and JVC M100S DVD recorder..

Any info w/b great.. thanks.

[gammer]

If you end up getting a TBC with BNC connectors, then you can go to your local Radio Shack and pick up some 'BNC to Female Composite' adapters.
This will allow you to plug your RCA plugs into the BNC jacks.

[rbatty11]

OK, thanks. But what if I want to use S-Video.. Is that is the same as Y/C 7-pin 358 connectors? I looked it up and they do look very similar.. but just wanted to be sure.

[BrainStorm69]

Is it compatible with home/consumer equipment as a TBC? In the brochure, it says it uses for input/output video, BNC and 7-pin Y/C 358 connectors.. is the latter just straight S-Video consumer cables? I'm just archiving VHS home movies to DVD using JVC DH40000 as source and JVC M100S DVD recorder..

Any info w/b great.. thanks.

7-pin Y/C 358 connectors are not just straight S-Video consumer cables. If you have a VCR with std. s-video output, you would need adapters, or two cables with the std. 4-pin s-video on one end and the 7-pin on the other (one for vcr to TBC, one from TBC to DVD recorder).

Also, this TBC uses 4:1:1 chroma subsampling, which is inferior to 4:2:2 used by many/most TBCs.

[davideck]

Also, this TBC uses 4:1:1 chroma subsampling, which is inferior to 4:2:2 used by many/most TBCs.

4:1:1 is more than adequate for consumer VCRs.

[lordsmurf]

4:1:1 is lower than the VHS chroma sampling (equiv), and is a point of disagreement between DV conversion users, and those that prefer lesser compression.

4:1:1 has been known to abuse greens and reds, nasty shifts in the chroma channels. There can also be contrast issues.

Whether you like it depends on what kind of quality you're expecting.

[davideck]

4:1:1 is lower than the VHS chroma sampling (equiv)...

That is incorrect. Where do you get these silly misconceptions?

edDV previously provided this format summary;
http://catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCAT/images/documents/pdfs/TT189%20-%204611.pdf

4:1:1 => 13.5 Mhz sampling for luminance; 3.375 Mhz sampling for each chrominance component.
The VHS Chroma Bandwidth is 600 Khz (.6 Mhz); well below the capability of 3.375 Mhz sampling.

Converting from 4:1:1 to other formats in the digital domain has been reported to cause problems, but we are talking here about the internal sampling of a TBC with analog in and analog out. Under these circumstances, 4:1:1 is more than adequate.

[lordsmurf]

Other documents reference it as closer to 4:2:2, hence the popularity of that being in most TBCs and digital video transfer devices.

[davideck]

Other documents reference it as closer to 4:2:2, hence the popularity of that being in most TBCs and digital video transfer devices.

Please provide one of those references.

Did you happen to notice that this is a professional TBC?
Many professional TBCs use 4:1:1 sampling because it is more than adequate for even broadcast chroma bandwidths.

[lordsmurf]

They've been posted in the forum before, search for them.

[rbatty11]

Thanks for the reponses.. After reading a few threads on before/after TBC usage images.. a little confused. Much talk of the TBC 1000 and the AVT 8710.. but if either is used, then you 'need' a detailer.. then a Proc Amp.. does it end?? .

I'm just trying to find a decent all-in-one.. if there is such a creature.. I ran across the JVC TBC, which doesn't fit the bill, I guess.. then a Prime Image TBC/Freeze II (which does have a proc amp). I think looking for a used Prime Image is the way to go.. Could I get something decent in the ~$300-400 price range for a used one?

I have some very old VHS recordings done in LP or EP (yes, I know, very unwise) that I'm trying to get on to DVD with least amount of quality-loss. I did a straight VHS (SP) to DVD xfr last night and noticed quite a bit of jittery scenes (JVC 40000 SVSH VCR --> JVC DR-M100S DVd recorder). Then I slipped in a Sima CT-2 between the two pieces and will find out results tonight.. Any suggestions w/b appreciated..

[davideck]

They've been posted in the forum before, search for them.

I recommend that you search for them and then remove them.

[lordsmurf]

You don't "need" anything necessarily.
Detailers and proc amps are completely optional.

TBC is the only thing that may be needed at some point, as few analog signals are stable enough to cooperate perfectly with digital devices.

[rbatty11]

Is there a way to eliminate/minimize the jumping? I've tried using 2 simple cheap Sima stabilizers to no avail and manual tracking on the JVC DVHS unit with some improvement.

btw, will the Prime Image II help in any way? I was looking at one on fleaBay for ~$275.. is that reasonable price? Thanks..

[davideck]

Is there a way to eliminate/minimize the jumping?

Does the JVC 40000 have an internal TBC/DNR that you could try turning off?

[mattso]

Thanks for the reponses.. After reading a few threads on before/after TBC usage images.. a little confused. Much talk of the TBC 1000 and the AVT 8710.. but if either is used, then you 'need' a detailer.. then a Proc Amp.. does it end?? .

I'm just trying to find a decent all-in-one.. if there is such a creature..

The AVT 8710 has proc amp & detailer (sharpener) built-in. It's a nifty little device, though it feels like some flimsy plastic toy! :P Don't be fooled! I have the CTB-100, which is the same thing, only it can handle PAL/NTSC/SECAM. (I assume the AVT 8710 is NTSC only?). It has S-video in/out also.

If you're after a "decent all-in-one" that's reasonably priced, I wouldn't look past it!


EDIT:
Does your JVC VCR have a "Video Stabiliser" function? Try turning it off. I noticed it can introduce "jitter" on some tapes!

[rbatty11]

The 40000 has a "Stabilizer", which you can turn on/off.. Is that the same as TBC? I set it to on, thinking it appropriate due to the low-quality source VHS tape.. didn't realize it could worsen PQ in the end--will try turning it off. Also set DVHS player to Edit mode after searching / reading some threads).

I guess I will give the AVT-8710 (or the CTB-100) a try then, which I didnt' realize had a 'detailer' .. thought it was just TBC and proc amp. Will the Prime Image II help any more than the 8710 or 100?

As for the source tape, the pic keeps jumping ever few seconds in the beginning.. then finally subsides gradually once into about 5mins of the video.. very annoying. The manual tracking did improve stability significantly.. though there are still some 'waves' across the top of the video..

[davideck]

The 40000 has a "Stabilizer", which you can turn on/off.. Is that the same as TBC?

I am not familiar with the 40000, but the 7600/9600 has both a Stabilizer and a TBC.
Did you try turning them off?

[lordsmurf]

The JVC D-VHS units have a stabilizer that functions similar to the one in the Panasonic DVD recorder. It may or may not be part of a TBC on that JVC. That D-VHS may also have an "always on" TBC inside of it. I don't remember anymore, it was last spring that I looked into those in depth.

[rbatty11]

I tried turning the Stabilizer off.. and honestly, to my eyes, I could not see a difference.. still jitter/jumping at the beginning of the tape.. If the TBC and Stabilizer are different creatures, then it appears the DVHS's TBC is always 'on'.. (since the Stabilizer can be set to on or off).

I have an older Panasonic PV4520(??model) SVHS VCR that I may try as the source instead of the JVC DVHS VCR.. (just to see if there's any difference)..

Man, I never thought simple VHS to DVD conversions/restoration w/b this intricate.. don't even want to think about any other type of filtering..

Edit: On a specific VHS xfr, the source is VERY dark.. I tried 'brightening' or 'enhancing' PQ slightly by using the Sima CT-2 'enhance' button, which brightens the video moderately (some improvement). Is this where I need a proc amp? or a detailer?

[davideck]

I have an older Panasonic PV4520(??model) SVHS VCR that I may try as the source instead of the JVC DVHS VCR.. (just to see if there's any difference)..

That would be a valuable test; it will identify if the problem follows the tape or the VCR.
You might also find that the Panasonic provides a better capture overall.

On a specific VHS xfr, the source is VERY dark..

Is it as dark when viewed from the VCR directly to a TV?

[rbatty11]

OK.. tried the Panny.. and there is still some jumping but not as bad as the JVC DVHS.. however, the Panny PQ is nowhere near the image quality of the JVC. So i'm going to stick with the JVC.. BUT...

how do I remove or minize the jumping? AND.. once into couple of minutes of the video, the video stops jumping.. But there's a wavy line at across the top of the video (kind of like verical hold problem). i can remove it by manual tracking..but only at the cost of PQ.. -- once I track to remove the wavy line across the top, the PQ deteriorates and gets a bit noisy.. Is there any way around this?

[davideck]

once I track to remove the wavy line across the top, the PQ deteriorates and gets a bit noisy.. Is there any way around this?

I think you'll have to compromise between PQ and stability. Maybe capture the first few minutes separate from the rest (with different tracking), and then edit the two segments together.

I have many VCRs. Most tapes play fine in all of them. But I also have tapes that are problematic for some yet play fine in another. Or one section of tape plays better in VCR A, while another section plays better in VCR B. Sometimes the old VCR that sits idle in the corner for years suddenly becomes a lifesaver...

[lordsmurf]

I have many VCRs. Most tapes play fine in all of them. But I also have tapes that are problematic for some yet play fine in another. Or one section of tape plays better in VCR A, while another section plays better in VCR B. Sometimes the old VCR that sits idle in the corner for years suddenly becomes a lifesaver...

Same here.

[rbatty11]

Good idea about capturing the 1st few minutes w/the Panny and the rest with the JVC.. But thinking of how to join the 2 separate mpg's I'll have..?? Think MPEGVCR can do that, yes?

I have 2 other Mitsu SVHS's but wouldn't dare try using them.. they're notorious for eating tapes, getting stuck, etc..

[davideck]

I have not used MPEGVCR. I think Video Redo has a joiner.

I also happened to notice another JVC TBC on EBay and it is claimed to be built by FOR.A.
http://cgi.ebay.com/JVC-Digital-Time-Base-Corector-SA-T100U-FOR-A-400-TBC_W0QQitemZ756...QQcmdZViewItem

If this is true, then the JVC SA-T400U may be a FOR.A 300 built for JVC.
The FOR.A 300 is a very nice TBC. I used one for a while and it was more transparent with better timebase correction capability than my DataVideo TBC-3000. It also has nice Proc Amp controls.

The FOR.A TBC did not work well with Beta tapes I had that were second generation or beyond. The TBC-3000 was the better performer under these conditions.

[rbatty11]

Hmmm, interesting... Actually, I just picked up a used Feral Effect E422 TBC, video transcoder, color corrector, etc.. Is anyone familiar with this Feral product? Have no idea how to use it but it comes with a manual.. I've seen a couple of threads that mentioned good things about a Feral A422 TBC.. hope it does the job.. I'll find out in a few days... if it doesn't, it'll be on fleaBay fast..