Bone to pick!

[Lantry03]

I had a thread locked on here and was issued a warning for this, this is a direct quote –

"I have a ton of MP3s that I ripped and then sold the disks on Ebay etc. And I think most of the MP3s I have saved do not have the ID3 tag info in them still. I guess that wouldn’t work for those files. Is there anyway to tell if the MP3s I have saved do have ID3 tag info in them?

Thanks! "

They issued me a warning saying it is illegal to make a "backup" of an audio CD and then sell the original. WTF?? First of all I would like anyone to show me where ANYONE in the world has EVER been found guilty by ANY court of law for doing this. Secondly they didn’t consider the timeframe. I did this back in the late 90s, back when the original Napster was still legal!

Of course it’s illegal to sell copies! I sold the originals and barley got anything for them anyway I might add. CDs I paid between $12 and $16 for I sold used for maybe $4 each? How in the H is this an offence? I was just left with the MP3s of the songs of the originals and I have never given them to anyone or shared them on a P2P!

I gave Tower Records literarily THOUSANDS of dollars in sales over the years and now some board is issuing me a warning for selling my used originals for a fraction of what I paid and keeping an MP3 copy of the music?!?! This is exactly the kind of attitude that does more harm than good for the RIAA!! You make me never want to pay for music again!!

[Noahtuck]

Because it's the same as backing up a dvd then selling the original, you are to destroy any backups when the original is sold.
But i'm sure someone will come along with the TECHNICAL details in the standard mumbo jumbo legal specific's 8)

It would be like going to the rental store and making a backup of a dvd you are returning the next day

You can backup property that you own, when you sell the original, you are to destroy any backup's you have, as you don't own the original anymore...
It would be like arguing that you can DL songs from limewire because you used to already own them on a store bought cd years ago but it was broke and you should not have to pay for them again at BB, right or wrong, agree or not, the way it is and Baldrick has rules in place to protect this great site and his ass
Frankly, i saw your original post just moments before it happened and was amazed you stated such a thing 8)

EDIT:
Like by the letter of the law, you are allowed to timeshift, record things from tv to watch later, then you must destroy them after watching, or record over them, it is illegal to archive them to watch over and over and over ect.
But show me one instance where any 1 person out of the BILLIONS have been convicted of making collections of tv shows on vhs in their own homes since VCR's came into pulic hands decades ago...... but the point is, there are certain rules that have to be abided by on this site to keep it from coming into the sight's of any groups as advocating anything illegal.
Which tech. what you stated is

[Faustus]

Because it breaks the site rules in directly, reguardless of if its been put to a test in the courts its still illegal.

Its the same as saying "look at all these illegal mp3s I downloaded" if you sold the original.

[Noahtuck]

What he said.. oh wait.... i did :P

[Faustus]

What he said.. oh wait.... i did :P

Yeah but I said it in very simple terms and officially. :P

Ok I can't even keep a straight face saying that, nevermind.

[mats.hogberg]

One of the most clean cut warnings I've seen lately...

/Mats

[RDS1955]

Something I picked up off a site concerning Fair Use and copying the orginals and then selling them...in a nutshell:

If you rip all your CDs into MP3s and then get rid of (i.e. sell) your CDs, then you are pirating music. Your fair use rights to use the music in a different format is based on you having the original work. If you don't have the original CD, then you have nothing to exercise your fair use rights against. Remember that fair use is an affirmative defense; therefore, if you are accused of infringement, you have the burden of proof that your copy was a fair use right. That would be hard to do if you no longer have the original. Same as copying MS Office and then selling the original.

The rights holder has the right to control copying of his work. Congress has carved out a narrow exception, called fair use. If you look at the fair use exemption at 17 U.S.C. § 107, it lists four factors to consider, and the case law has expanded on it, especially for things like timeshifting, making MP3s and whatnot, since the statute doesn't explicitly permit that (e.g. a lot of what we would consider fair use rights come from, erm, judicial activism). It's a gray area; basically all in all, the creator of the original still maintains legal rights to the copying of the work..You only purchase the priviledge to listen/watch/view and, yes copy as long as you maintain the original you intially purchased..

Just thought I'd toss that in....

[mats.hogberg]

...but in the end, on this site, it's what Baldrick (and the Baldrick extensions "the Mods") says is not OK that's not OK. Simple as that, take it or leave (it).

/Mats

[Lantry03]

It would be like going to the rental store and making a backup of a dvd you are returning the next day

No, not at all because I payed full price and not a "rental" price for the originals!

It would be like arguing that you can DL songs from limewire because you used to already own them on a store bought cd years ago but it was broke and you should not have to pay for them again at BB, right or wrong, agree or not, the way it is and Baldrick has rules in place to protect this great site and his ass

Yes and this is true!! If the downloading of music from limewire did not envolve the similtanious "sharing" of the files it would be PERFECTLY LEGAL!! You do not have to pay for the same music more than once and NO court of law has ever beenable to say otherwise so far!!!

Frankly, i saw your original post just moments before it happened and was amazed you stated such a thing 8)

You would be!!

[jimmalenko]

I was watching when the warning got given out, and TBH, I thought the whole wording of the warning was incorrect, but that may just be me.

First let's leave the whole legal side out of it as it doesn't really matter - what's legal for you might not be for me, and so on and so forth. This site is a private site and is governed by the rules of Baldrick's choosing, which are loosely based on some laws in some parts of the world. So whether it's illegal in some part of the world isn't really the issue here; if it's against forum rules then the mods are empowered to issue a warning. And besides, it's only one warning (you're allowed 5) on an internet forum. It's not like the Police are gonna come barging your door down just because of this. Lighten up, dude


Just FWIW, it isn't in fact illegal (or against site rules for that matter) to make a backup and then sell the originals. What's illegal is to keep the backup after you've sold the originals - there's a very clear difference there and IMHO this is where the original mod got the wording wrong.

[Lantry03]

Just FWIW, it isn't in fact illegal (or against site rules for that matter) to make a backup and then sell the originals. What's illegal is to keep the backup after you've sold the originals - there's a very clear difference there and IMHO this is where the original mod got the wording wrong.

Even if I keep an MP3 copy of the original I sell. There is still the fact that I sold the originals for a small fraction of what I paid for them full price!! Not even the RIAA is ready to say this is illegal. Again this will only hurt their business!! Buying a CD for $16, burning it to mp3 and selling if for $4 is not exactly a great deal for me!! I would like to see you, this board, or the RIAA try to come after me for this!! The whole industry would be shooting itself in the foot if it tried!! I mean how much are they going to try to rape a loyal consumer before they realize they are making a mistake!!!???

[jimmalenko]

Just FWIW, it isn't in fact illegal (or against site rules for that matter) to make a backup and then sell the originals. What's illegal is to keep the backup after you've sold the originals - there's a very clear difference there and IMHO this is where the original mod got the wording wrong.

Even if I keep an MP3 copy of the original I sell.

Yes. This site's warez rules are based on US Fair Use, and under Fair Use, you have an obligation to destroy any backup copies once the original leaves your posession.

There is still the fact that I sold the originals for a small fraction of what I paid for them full price!! Not even the RIAA is ready to say this is illegal. Again this will only hurt their business!! Buying a CD for $16, burning it to mp3 and selling if for $4 is not exactly a great deal for me!! I would like to see you, this board, or the RIAA try to come after me for this!! The whole industry would be shooting itself in the foot if it tried!! I mean how much are they going to try to rape a loyal consumer before they realize they are making a mistake!!!???

That's the legal argument. Unfortunately you're confusing what's legal with what's allowed at this site. For example, it is legal for Canadians to download copyrighted movies, yet if it could be proven that the movie was available on DVD, then they would get a formal warning here, just as you did. Even though it is legal in their country, it violates site rules.

Kapeche ?

[MackemX]

your breaking the law no matter what you say Lantry03 because as Jim says keeping the backup while not in possession of the orginal isn't allowed Most people just word their posts carefully as you can still ask questions without admitting to breaking the law which is what you did . It doesn't look good for the site if it's full of people admitting they are lawbreakers now does it?

would you have sold the originals if you didn't keep the backups? What would you be listening to now if you couldn't keep the backups you currently have?

so what if the mod didn't word it right, we all still know what he meant whichever way you look at it . Lantry03, it's only one card and it will be gone in 30 days anyway and OK I agree it's the principal blah blah blah but I'm sure you'll manage in the future and nothing personal was meant by it 8)

[lordsmurf]

The warning was fair. The thread was locked. The end.

It's time you drop it now. Thanks.