Sony DRM system using rootkit technology

[Snakebyte1]

Sony President of Global Digital Business says

Quote:
"Most people don't even know what a rootkit is so why should they care about it?"



I'd like to ask the Prez...

Most people don't understand Copyright laws, so why should they care about it?

[canadateck]

Thats funny..lol

[ROF]

Most people don't understand Tax laws, maybe we should send our tax bills to Sony?

[canadateck]

I think your on to somthing ROF..lol

[ROF]

Sony keeps digging a deeper and deeper hole. Two online games that I know of have now been spoiled because of exploits possible using this Sony devised rootkit.

[thecoalman]

I'm sure there will be many more... I don't think the full ramifications of this is going to come to light until it really starts to be exploited and hits the regular news. There's so many possibilities... one that comes to mind is using it to hide software on someone ele's computer you have access too for spying purposes. Haven't seen that mentioned yet.


Edit: Another thing not mentioned is the artists who's CD's this crap is on. Check out the ratings and reviews for the Van Zant CD: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/B00092ZM02/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/104-3893...g=UTF8&s=music

[robertazimmerman]

I've been reading these posts with much amusement over the last few days. Amusement, you may ask? Yes, because I starting boycotting Sony products after buying so many lemons that I was ready to throw their crap thru their corporate windows. Let me begin:

Sony 560 reel-to-reel (right ch. dropouts; serviced 5 times to no avail)
Sony cordless 2-line telephone (died after 30 days of use)
Sony 19" TV (tuner died 4 years after purchase)
Sony 28" TV (tuner died 2 yrs after purchase; intermittent hi-pitched whine)
Sony $400 portable CD player (lid snapped off; Sony wanted $280 to fix!)

(and more that slip my mind at this point)

The last straw was the portable CD player which had less than 50 hours of use. I gently opened the lid and the hinge simply crack off! No forcing, no roughness, no abuse.

When I go into a Sony store to look around, I see beautiful pictures on beautiful TVs, but if buying one of them means premature breakdowns and expensive servicing, then Sony can stick their products where the sun doesn't shine. Couple this with their proprietary failed or useless formats: Elcaset, Beta, MD, etc. and their stance on Blu-Ray that I intend to buy an HD-DVD player simply on principal!

In the last 5 years, I have bought the following products from Toshiba: 2 VCRs, 3 DVD players and a 50" rear-projection TV. All have worked flawlessly. Sure, the TV may not have as pretty a picture as the Sony models, but it's close and I haven't had to deal with Sony reliability concerns.

So I congratulate Sony on their success in alienating potential clients. To the head honchos at Sony: check out IBM's attitude towards the PC market in the 70's and 80's - proprietary software, proprietary hardware. Where is IBM in the PC marketplace these days? They no longer manufacture PCs and their desktop offerings are limited to Domino and Smartsuite, both acquired when they purchased Lotus and both non-players in the grand scheme of things.

Ta-ta Sony! Welcome Toshiba, Panasonic, Hitachi, Pioneer, NEC, Sanyo, etc.!

Roberta

[VegasBud]

Actually it seems having AnyDVD on your system is Actually a protection from the Sony rootkit...

Please refer to my earlier post here. AnyDvd does not prevent the installation of the rootkit, it just allows you to still copy the CD even if the rootkit is installed.

I would hate for anyone to get infected with this thing because of a misconception. The only way to avoid infection from one of these CDs is to disable autorun on your drive(s).

[thecoalman]

The only way to avoid infection from one of these CDs is to disable autorun on your drive(s).

You forgot option 2, don't purchase it.

[mbellot]

The only way to avoid infection from one of these CDs is to disable autorun on your drive(s).

You forgot option 2, don't purchase it.

I think I'd call that Option 1.

[Neroon]

Sony keeps digging a deeper and deeper hole. Two online games that I know of have now been spoiled because of exploits possible using this Sony devised rootkit.

Hmm that would mean that the game providers could sue sony for lost revenue on the grounds, that it will make their game less attractive to potential customers if its no longer cheater - free.
Good news as far as i'm concerned being sued by someone else with deep pockets is a much bigger threat than being sued by customers.

[whitejremiah]

i, too...can testify to sony's unreliablity of products.....im currently on my 4th car stereo...first one was a casette deck...ditched on those grounds....non sony....second one was around a 200 dollar cd player..maybe five years ago...stopped reading cd's and skipped all the time after a year....that was a sony...next (silly me) i replaced it with another sony deck....spent around the same...slightly more if i remember correctly....that one died within a year and a half or so...........then i wisened up and bought a pioneer deck (one of the higher end ones) and its been stable ever since and shows no signs of dying out any time soon.......im also on my 3rd ps2 (only reason i bothered to replace the thing so many times is cuz of my rather large game colleciton, or else i wouldve just sold the thing) as for the ps3, when that comes out, im gonna be waiting for around 2 years to wait for them to fix everything thats broken with it and i may consider buying it..........ps2 is currently on like version 14 or something and a lot of them STILL have problems....look at a gamecube, they havent had any manufactural reason to rebuild the system...its still the same system component wise as it was from day 1...and xbox...well about the only real things they did was upgrade the harddrives they were using and change dvd drive companies a few times...the system itself though is rock solid as well.

[BobK]

i, too...can testify to sony's unreliablity of products....

Since we're bashing Sony (not necessarily unjustifiably), let me tell you about my first DVD burner- a Sony DRU- don't remember the number but it was one of the first dual format burners.

I bought it ($350) in early 2003. I had to call tech support for a question about getting it to work properly right after I installed it.

Jump forward 6 months (and only a couple hundred burns) later. It started not burning correctly- 8-9 out of every 10 disks would quit burning 1/2 way through the disk (and disks at the time were $1.50-$1.75 each). After wasting about $50 worth of disks and checking all the software, I finally tried switching burners- everything else worked fine in my computer and the Sony didn't work in any other computer.

So I called Sony. About 3 phone calls later (each taking 10-15 minutes before I even got a real person), we had re-done all the tests that I'd already tried twice before. I also checked their web-site which said essentailly "out tech support phone answeres don't know any more than you can learn by reading this web page". It was pretty well established that the burner was defective, but they didn't want to honor the warranty and fix it.

Finally one person said they'd transfer me to a tech who would give me an RMA for the burner. I got transfered and after a brief discussion of the problem the tech said that we'd have to do all the trouble shooting steps (again), and that he'd have to charge me $25 for the phone support since my 30 days free phone support had started when I asked a question about getting the burner installed. I told him to F--- off, that I'd just take it back to Best Buy and get a refund.

Before going to Best Buy I made one more call to tech support and made it clear that I was po'ed when I asked to speak to a supervisor. After telling the supervisor that making me pay $25 to find out what we already knew was BS and I was thinking of suing them, she gave me an RMA to return the burner. I sent it in, waited almost 6 weeks to get it back- although they just sent me another rebuild and not the same one I'd sent in. I burned 2 disks successfully with the 'new' burner and then it started doing the same thing the old one had been doing- wasting disks.

That's the last Sony product I'll ever buy.

[ROF]

Let's add another two Sony product to the steaming dog pile. I've had two Sony DVD Players die. A Sony NS50p/s player which was relatively cheap, but after about 7 months it failed to spin up and play discs. Required two parts replacements and it now functions but is using Pioneer parts. The second one was a moderately priced player. A Sony NS975V. This one died after about 2 weeks, it fried itself with an offensive odor and puff of smoke. I returned it to store where I purchased it and exchanged it. The same thing happened with the replacement but that one lasted only a matter of hours. I returned it and bought a multi-disc Pioneer player instead.

I also had a set of Sony computer speakers die on me some years ago and also a cassette walkman from Sony that was junk from the moment I bought it. I had a Sony Stereo receiver for many years which i eventually gave to my sister and it's still running today. There are good products and there are bad products, but my experience with Sony has been pretty much bad. After the smoking DVD players, I vowed never to buy Sony equipment again. In my opinion, they are not quality products but just overpriced POS. I guess they think their name brand is worth it.

I will say though I have had zero problems with their recordable media.

[whitejremiah]

yea...their blank media is good...although overpriced..and ive yet to have problems with it...i stopped using it on the grounds that they bite right around the time that i replaced my 2nd ps2 with my 3rd one...........right now, im partial to TDK for media.......

[Micker_C]

By the way, just a little heads up on that blasted maleware~Rootkit, the reason it's so bad=Uses the inherent drivers of the windows OS and reconfigures to ASPI hook into the kernal, what's that do -Blows away the correct driver and the kit adds around five additional cloaked files; Of course Sony was kind enough to "Patch" the kit, so that it's largely visible and no it does not disarm the beast. Try taking it out and it takes you out, it does call home as well, if it does not BSOD your system at the least it will take your CD driver to Hell.

Now, guy's -Remind me what Sony was trying to do? Protect their product? By sending a nuc @ yours! No faith company. It's interesting as I had a quick look @ Sony stock and it's not that public yet, at least for mainstream rollerdex gearheads who play with money -But, notable is the trouble they are in when clicking 'News' on their stock. Just a matter of time, hopefully by Christmas the Rollerdex gearheads will have seen the light and pulled out their money from Sony...That would be so much fun to watch...Lol

Then lets see the Government start asking why that maleware is on their secured systems, Terroistic threats, anyone...Oh, so LMAO. The Dod and others who get bored and play their ligit CD's at work and are allowed to, oh, man; I just can't wait to see the fall out.... 8)

Sony will never agin be able to "Play" like the 'Victim' -EVER AGAIN! Now add a few more Class Actions to those already under way + the Gov -Do you feel the heat....

Did they ever step into a fire.

BTW, like some more info on AnyDVD vs CDEX; now on this you guys might have the low down I'm more into coding, software [And currently enjoying the Sony rant], so I'm sure someone here can at least put 2+2 together to see what fits, and VegasBud made a very good point -Call home is still enabled. Normally the most I do is backup my movies, now that's even suspect.

Cheers

[painkiller]

Let's not forget the simple fact that Sony (in this topic/thread) has intentionally disregarded the rightful owner of each and every PC that those particular CDs affected. (And the ones in the future.)

Installation of software without notification, or intention, to the owner of the PC is tantamount to breaking and entering. Regardless of function of their installed software. (Even legal efforts require subpeonas to do this - where's the one, and others, that Sony got to install this "so-called DRM" rootkit?)

Sony doesn't own my machine (I have the receipts to prove it), and likely the same is true for each and every one of yours.

And also, not advertising all of the content of the specific CDs consitutes fraud, at least in my book. This point alone got Intuit in hot water last year.

By the way, if any of you missed some of the followup - that so-called patch? It only does two things.
Makes the previously invisible, affected files - visible, and also updates their "so-called DRM" files.

Just to be sure you know, even though it may have been said before.

[ROF]

There is one simple solution to avoid the rootkit. Buy a CD player. I never understood why people would want to ruin the CD experience by listening through the speakers of even the best PC sound system. Heaven forbid you destroy the audio by degrading to MP3 quality. This is no excuse for Sony to do what they've done, but a simple investment in a $20 Boombox is in 90% of the cases a heck of alot better than the sound coming from your 6 channel PC soundcard when playing an audio CD.

[thecoalman]

but a simple investment in a $20 Boombox is in 90% of the cases a heck of alot better than the sound coming from your 6 channel PC soundcard when playing an audio CD.

Most of that is dependant on the speakers, most computer speakers are crap. I've seen the average ones shipped with computers going for less than $20. My system on the other hand will eat alive many smaller home entertainment systems. I've seen Sony (ironically) systems that cost less than my speakers though. :P

[CaptainVideo]

i, too...can testify to sony's unreliablity of products....

Since we're bashing Sony (not necessarily unjustifiably), let me tell you about my first DVD burner- a Sony DRU- don't remember the number but it was one of the first dual format burners.

I purchased the same one. It started to fail right after the one year warranty expired. It still works sometimes. Its main problem is not reading discs. Burning seems to work if you can get it to recognize a disc has been inserted.

I'm boycotting Sony. Which isn't really hard because ever since they purchased entertainment entities their electronics have sucked.

[CaptainVideo]

but a simple investment in a $20 Boombox is in 90% of the cases a heck of alot better than the sound coming from your 6 channel PC soundcard when playing an audio CD.

You're joking right? I don't know what computer system you have that sucks worse than a $20 Coby/Classic/No-name boombox. My system is hooked into my home theater setup and sound fantastic. And since I'm usually at my computer doing editing work it is more convienent to put a CD in my computer and play it. And it sounds far far far better (so do my computer speakers) than any boombox on the market today.

[Noahtuck]

but a simple investment in a $20 Boombox is in 90% of the cases a heck of alot better than the sound coming from your 6 channel PC soundcard when playing an audio CD.

Most of that is dependant on the speakers, most computer speakers are crap. I've seen the average ones shipped with computers going for less than $20. My system on the other hand will eat alive many smaller home entertainment systems. I've seen Sony (ironically) systems that cost less than my speakers though. :P

Yep! same here!!
My PC's THX-Dolby-DTS 5.1 W/62 Watts RMS per channel for satellites & a 10" 188w rms sub does a bit better than any boombox or those nice little speakers that come standard with a pc :P

It's nice to see so many sony haters ranting in one place, i feel all warm and fuzzy 8)

[Neroon]

It's nice to see so many sony haters ranting in one place, i feel all warm and fuzzy.

You kidding me?!
I love Sony for this! They helped the cause of fair-use more than the EFF could have hoped to achieve in a decade.
All it takes now is a report saying that terrorists could compromise the FBI's or Homeland Security's or ... computers using Sony's rootkit technology and a lot of politicans will distance themselves from the RIAA/MPAA lobby.

[Noahtuck]

It's nice to see so many sony haters ranting in one place, i feel all warm and fuzzy.

You kidding me?!
I love Sony for this! They helped the cause of fair-use more than the EFF could have hoped to achieve in a decade.

Pay attention dude!!!!!!!!!!!! all the anti-sony comments stated on this one page alone... and your gonna attack me and defend sony!!!!!!!!!!!



WTFE

Sony sucked 20 years ago, Sony sucked 10 years ago, Sony sucks now!!!
In equipment, equipment support, equipment compatibility, their ethics and practices, Sony just plain SUCKS!!!!!!!!!
And anyone with half a brain and the slightest bit of experiance with their $h!te would know this 8)

[shelbyGT]

actually, Sony's got some good products.

[ROF]

actually, Sony's got some good products.

Can you name one? There laptops are utter garbage, so are their PCs. Their burners are overpriced and under performers. Their stereo parts are similiar overpriced and under performers, and those are if you get one that actually continues to work.

[dodonoghue]

Remember Metallica (i.e the napster killers). They own their record label.

Bought the new albumn in 2003, got an autorun asking to install a flah player to a preview their new video game (which was never made incedently) . Tried making mp3s too and I had huge problems with nero doing it (ok guys your parogative but i did give you money for the albumn)

....2/3 days later blue screen of death, always suspected the 2 events were linked but wasn't 100% till now cause i didnt try that again twice

The news this week doesnt surprise me as much as it does the rest of you it was only natural that more record companies would fallow.

Kinda sorry I let that greed continue unchecked (sorry guys)

Im joining the sony boycott myself my dvd players is an dvp ns300 and it doent have a lot of funtionality e.g. cant play cdrs and now after a mere 3 years its refusing to play propper pressed dvds my replacement wont be a sony, their products are generally inferior across the board

this all started because of a blog and i think its such a truiph for free speech btw.

[ROF]

Im joining the sony boycott myself my dvd players is an dvp ns300 and it doent have a lot of funtionality e.g. cant play cdrs and now after a mere 3 years its refusing to play propper pressed dvds my replacement wont be a sony, their products are generally inferior across the board.

Let me guess, it's making alot of clicking noises. You can hear it spin up, then slow down, click click click, spin up again, slow down, click click . . . repeat a few more times and then sometimes it plays the disc while other times it reports an error or "no disc"? If so, replace it. If you can't fix it yourself, which most people can't, the repair is more expensive then a DVD recorder.

[TBoneit]

So far, knock wood, not that I'm superstitious of course.

So far my old Apex 3 disc changer, Apex 1 Disc player, Sony 5 disc player and Sony 400 disc player (all DVDs of course) are working fine..... The Sony 500A and 510A were both working until I killed one with TDK 8X only media which I believe damaged the laser trying to burn or calibrate burn power.

Burned a lot of CDs and DVDs in the 500A, the 510A was a freebie from a customer that didn't like the s/w that came with it. Now running a Pioneer 109 simply because Sony quit making their own. Anyone remember when the 500A came out? It was the first Dual format burner. I was getting many calls a day leading up to christmas that year from people trying to locate one to give as a gift. Long backorder on that drive at the time.

Note: the sony 5 disc player is in t he basement hooked up to a decent sound system CV RS series speakers a Casette player and a turntable etc. And used to play CDs and Music DVDs, video is hooked up to a old 13" composite computer monitor from before EGA and VGA days. It still works too. I use it when playing DVDs to select a song.

Would I buy another Sony, probably, not to many companies making large capacity DVD players, And it was the only one I could just pop over to the store and take home with me that evening after work.

Would I buy a Sony CD? No, Would I buiy any of the CDs in the stores these days? No.... Not to my taste. Would I I-Tunes and burn a CD? Yes, I already have... Is I tunes invasive? Maybe, I noticed that ripping or copying a I-Tunes created Cd was darn slow, Is it because of I-Tunes? Maybe or maybe not, didn't check it out.

[mbellot]

yea...their blank media is good...although overpriced..and ive yet to have problems with it...i stopped using it on the grounds that they bite right around the time that i replaced my 2nd ps2 with my 3rd one...........right now, im partial to TDK for media.......

Consider yourself lucky then.

I had several boxes of Sony CD-R media that all went "foggy" after about two years. No good reason either, they were always kept at a decent ambient (65F - 80F) in my computer desk cabinet.

At first I was a bit upset since the blanks were not usable, but then I got really pissed when I checked the disks I had already used and they were hosed too.

Screw Sony. I haven't bought any of their products since the CD-Rs, and I have no intention of starting now.


BTW - All you guys with dead Sony DVD players, go buy a Daewoo. My $99 DVG-3000 is still kicking (and MV free) after more than four years.