DVD Player Recommendations

[ricoman]

I have a Sony 50" HDTV RPLCD with HDMI input, I use an LG DVB418 upconverting DVD play and HDMI cable and it is a terrific combo. Despite what some people say, I upconvert to 1080i and there is a big difference from my Toshiba progressive scan dvd player (no cheapy, cost me over $225 when it was new). You can get reasonably priced cables (dvi, hdmi whatever) thru Tigerdirect.com. Don't spend $100 for an over-hyped Monster cable, I spent $25. Now, before everyone jumps on me, no, it may not be true 1080 resolution, but it's damned good. Comparable to the network HD broadcast quality, but not quite as good as the better HD channels (Discovery, HBO, PBS). Go with the HDMI or DVI cable, you spent $1000 for an HDTV, spend another $25 or so and get the damned cable. My HD cable box w/ HD DVR has a DVI output, so I use that with the optical cable for sound. Good luck, have fun.

[manono]

Hi moerl-

You've got a CRT HDTV, and while they don't gain as much benefit from a digital hookup with upconverting as does a fixed pixel display, it should still be noticeable. So, you're using the DVI to HDMI cable, right? You'll get no benefit from component cables. Are you sure you're upconverting, as opposed to outputting 480i from the Oppo? When you hit the DVI button on the remote, it shows on the screen which resolution it's putting out. Finding the best one for your display is sometimes tricky. Some people with native 1080i displays find that 540p works better than 1080i. Many find, as edDV said, that 720p works the best, no matter their display's resolution. You just have to play around and find which is best for your particular set.

For more info, read this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=491306

To update the firmware if yours isn't the 10/22 one, burn the iso or img or whatever it is as an image file to a CD-RW, and NOT as a data file. There's more info with full instructions on their site, linked at that thread I just pointed you to.

Don't get discouraged yet. Lots of people have initial problems from not setting it up correctly. Also, if the DVD has problems that you didn't see before, they will become more obvious after getting a player such as the Oppo. To really test it, put on a reference level DVD. TV Series DVDs aren't usually of the best quality. In addition to that large thread to which I pointed you, there's an even larger one here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=482239

[moerl]

I didn't see a way to change the settings. Would the cable matter? I mean.. could it have to do with the fact that I'm using a DVI2HDMI cable rather than something like component?

Thanks

[Ghostmaker]

Hitting the "DVI" button on the remote will switch the output resolution from 480p (or 576p) to 540p, 720p or 1080i. These last two are of course the standard HD formats, and 540p is a resolution favored by certain rear-projection TVs such as those made by Toshiba. The player does not support scaling to custom resolutions, as may be needed with many fixed-pixel displays. The scaling results at both 720p and 1080i were very good on my screen, stable and free of artifacts.

[moerl]

One more issue. What do I need to do to make my Oppo play discs from other regions? I thought the Oppo was a multiregional player but I just popped in "Solaris" which I assume is region 2 or whatever it is that is used in Europe and the output said "wrong region" ... that was one of the most important factors for me when buying a DVD player and the way I understood it and from what I learned in this thread I thought the Oppo was capable of this. It doesn't appear to be! Is there anything I can do to make it play multi-regional discs? :/

Thanks

[moerl]

O god. I love this... forget my question about making the player region free... I looked at the first link manono provided and that thread contained my answer!! It was ridiculously easy. My god.. I already love Oppo

I put in Solaris again and it worked like a charm! I hit the "display" or "screen" button on the TV remote while watching some making of or something.. and it said 720p, so I assume that's what the TV is set to. During playback, when I tried hitting the DVI button on the Oppo remote, I just got the "forbidden" sign in the upper right corner :/

[moerl]

Nevermind the resolution question... the thread manono pointed me to answered that question too .

I was getting the "action forbidden" sign because I was trying to switch resolutions during playback. All you have to do is hit STOP, change resolution, then hit play.. it continues playing right where you left off. Beautiful!

I didn't notice any difference between 1080i and 720p. Does it matter which one I'm using?

[edDV]

Nevermind the resolution question... the thread manono pointed me to answered that question too .

I was getting the "action forbidden" sign because I was trying to switch resolutions during playback. All you have to do is hit STOP, change resolution, then hit play.. it continues playing right where you left off. Beautiful!

I didn't notice any difference between 1080i and 720p. Does it matter which one I'm using?

720p will be faster refresh 60fps vs 30fps for 1080i or 540p. I bet with that set you see little difference in resolution.

[moerl]

At 540p my TV goes crazy. I tried it and the screen just starts flashing like it's about to explode. I'm not touching 540p again .

I'll stick to 720p then, thank you! I don't seem to see any difference between 720p and 1080i at all, so having the advantage of the faster refresh rate at 720p is just what I need. Thanks!

VideoHelp.com rocks

[manono]

I was getting worried there for a minute, moerl. But as I continued reading down, you got progressively more cheerful. Next up might be a calibration of the player to the TV set. You can do a simple one with the THX Optimizer found on some DVDs. I think that all the Star Wars DVDs have it. Better (short of a $200 professional calibration) would be the AVIA or Video Essentials discs. With the current firmware (they changed the Brightness setting from earlier firmware releases), most find that setting the Brightness in the player from -3 to -5 and Contrast to either 0 or -1 is best. Make sure that Sharpness in the player is set to 0. Then calibrate the TV. If you haven't calibrated it yet, then for most TVs the out-of-box settings are way off, and often tuned for the artificial conditions of a dealer showroom. Sharpness is usually set way too high, and often the Brightness and Contrast are screwed as well. Have fun.

[moerl]

Good point. I never know what to set all these settings to! Tell me more about these calibration discs. I've never heard of anything like that in my life.

I imagine they are "bootable" (by the DVD player) discs that run an automated set of instructions, modifying the player's settings for color, hue, sharpness, contrast etc.? Is that what it is? In that case I'd be interested in that. Also, how will I know what to set the TV to? Also.. my TV came straight from BestBuy storage so I can't imagine it's set to showroom conditions as it never even made it to the showroom. However, that doesn't mean it's optimally calibrated.

[edDV]

AVIA and Video Essentials are more than you need and difficult to use properly.

Start with the THX optimizer
http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/optimizerIntro.html
Order the $3 blue glasses.

That should be all you need. Remember you have adjustments at both the TV and DVD player. DVD Player adjustments are usually used to match another source.

Also understand how to use a color bar pattern.
http://www.indianapolisfilm.net/article.php?story=20040117004721902
http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm

[manono]

Hi-

No, the AVIA and Video Essentials DVDs show you a bunch of test patterns and you do the calibration yourself. Nothing automated about them. edDV is correct that they're difficult to use. AVIA is maybe a touch easier. I'm not sure I agree that they're more than you need. Maybe he can come back and elaborate.

The THX Optimizer is a good start, and the link he kindly provided also has a complete list of the DVDs with the THX Optimizer on them. There are so many that I'm sure either you or a friend have some of them:

http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/dvdFind.html

No need to fill in the box. Just hit the "Search" button to see the full list.

[moerl]

Thanks for the search.. it seems none of the DVDs we have come with THX Optimizer on them. At least the ones I remember off the top of our head from our collection.. the collection is small, but good.

The ones I tried:

- Gladiator
- Solaris
- Interview with a Vampire
- Deer Hunter
- Clockwork Orange
- some season of X-Files
- Nip/Tuck seasons I & II

and a bunch of other movies I can't think of right now.. but not too many more.. maybe 10 or 15 max.

This is a bit over my head.. given my setup, is it worth going through all this? I do care about quality, but we watched Solaris tonight, (amazing film), and I was quite happy with the way the picture looked.

I'd still need those "glasses" even with the THX Optimizer included on the disc, right? Also, the THX Optimizer will set the best settings for that title, right? To me it all sounds like quite the hassle.. I mean, hellooo? Setting different settings for each single movie you watch? Who does that, unless you're a complete A/V nut like most of you people here? That's not supposed to be offensive, by the way. Dedication to quality is a noble quality... but to be honest, I'd just like to get the best possible GENERAL settings out of the TV and player. I can't say that I care enough to optimize the settings for each single film I'm going to watch.

My flatmate thinks I'm nuts with tech as it is.. if I start doing this, I'll start thinking that myself.

[ricoman]

Hey, you have the equipment and spent a lot of money on it, you may as well optimize it, right? You don't need the glasses for the THX. I have the AVIA and it is a little confusing, but you can figure it out, but the first time around it will probably take you 1/2 hr. to do it.
I don't think you have to do the THX for every movie, but even the AVIA recommends recalibration every couple months or so. Many people recommend professional calibration every year or so, but the one I contacted wanted $400, I got the $30 AVIA instead.

[edDV]

Short answer:

Get your luminance black level (aka brightness) correct and you are 80% there for monitor adjustment.

Longer answer:

OK a quick overview of the issues of monitor and system adjustment for video display rather than computer monitor adjustment for desktop publishing and pre-press calibration (a different subject).

Video transmission relies on standardized electronic signals for calibration. The most important recording and display parameters are contained in the color bar display. This is what is used to standardize the production of video and to adjust all pieces of equipment in the transmission chain including the monitor.

This is the standard NTSC transmission color bar (with 7.5% setup) used in most of the Americas. It is the standard for analog TV transmission, VCR, laserdisc, and analog camcorder recording (including 8mm, Hi8, VHS, VHS-C and analog Betacam)

http://www.indianapolisfilm.net/article.php?story=20040117004721902
http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm
http://www.videouniversity.com/palbars.htm

This is the a representation of the standard color bar (with 0.0% setup) used in most of the rest of the world for NTSC (in Japan), PAL, SECAM and various MAC (multiplexed analog component) transmission systems.



Digital video* has universally adopted the latter 0-100% levels for video production and transmission (including DV, DVD, D1, ATSC Digital Television (USA), MPeg2, MPeg4, HDV, etc.)

During the transition period from analog to digital, those in the Americas and those others dealing with NTSC sourced analog video need to understand the differences in black level (brightness) and gain (contrast or "picture" adjustment) for analog and digital sources.

Two Tiers of Monitor Adjustment

Factory and service adjustments:

The goals of factory and service adjustments are to calibrate the TV or monitor to properly display a standard set of test signals (including levels, linearity, convergence, frequency response, etc.) and other adjustments. These controls are usually internal to the set or in special service menus. A new monitor should come with these adjustments set to spec. This is not always the case so a new monitor should be carefully evaluated using, for example the THX optimizer, which may indicate the monitor needs to be returned to the factory service center for adjustment under warranty. It is unwise for the user to change these settings without proper test equipment and training.

Analog and digital TV set calibration deteriorates over time. CRTs, plasmas and other display technologies loose brigtness and color balance over time. Periodically a qualified service technician can recalibrate the aging monitor to optimal factory settings. Eventually the monitor will "wear out" and be out of spec range for recalibration (Ebay buyers beware).

User adjustments:

User controls are provided for system calibration and personal preference. The first goal is objective and measurable. The second is subjective.

(to be continued this weekend)



* other than obsolete D2, D3 composite digital standards.

[ricoman]

nice job edDV

[manono]

You mean to say that you don't know anyone with any of the Star Wars DVDs that you can borrow to get at the THX Optimizer for 15 minutes? I didn't use the glasses, and as edDV says, setting the brightness level correctly is half the battle, especially if you've spent a lifetime watching TV with the brightness jacked up, thus ruining the black levels. That and the contrast are perhaps the 2 most important settings, and THX Op does them fine without the glasses. And you can turn the sharpness down all the way on both your Oppo (its default, I think) and probably on the TV set also. And no, while perfect levels might be achieved by optimizing for each DVD you watch, in practical terms, just doing it every once in a while should be fine.

This is a bit over my head.. given my setup, is it worth going through all this?

For a basic calibration, there's not a whole lot to do. And as ricoman says, since you spent the big bucks for the TV and player, you may as well take that final step and tweak them so they look their best.

And thanks edDV for taking the time to write all that.

[moerl]

Guys.. just dropping buy to say that I love you. Oppo is such an awesome company and their player is great. I'm extremely happy with the purchase

I just installed the very latest firmware on the player, dated Nov. 22nd 2005, and it was ridiculously easy. Not that I expected it to be any harder, I'm just saying.. all worked without a hitch .

There is something different about Oppo.. the release notes of the new firmware describe each and every change or addition in detail, completely killing any confusion that may arise about the contents of the new firmware. I love it! I just read the release notes here: http://www.oppodigital.com/opdv971h_firmware_1022_release_note.html

When I first checked out the player with the new release notes installed I noticed the Video 1 and Video 2 options, obviously not having a clue as to what they mean and I should set it to. Having read the release notes, I now know that what I want is Video 2

Also, the noise reduction feature may come in very handy when watching Nip/Tuck on DVD. God I love that show .

So many things change with new firmware versions... is there a forum where people keep up with this?? And I still haven't done any calibration on the screen or player. I need to read through the last few posts in here. This thread has been tremendously useful.

Thanks everyone.

[manono]

Hi-

Glad you're enjoying your player. There's a bug in the PAL support still. You watch a PAL disc and then turn off the player, your settings revert to default, even though they show the same numbers as before. Oppo is working on that, and the next firmware will fix it. Since you watch some PAL DVDs, you might want to take note, if you've tweaked the player settings at all.

There are 2 main threads to follow Oppo developments, firmware releases, settings recommendations, complaints and such. They're both huge, I'll give you the current last pages, and you can work your way back as far as you like:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6592075&&#post6592075

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6585284&&#post6585284

[moerl]

Wait... you're saying the settings revert to default but don't reflect that in the display? Meaning, the settings are not what they say they are? Whoa... that's a very evil bug.

Thanks for letting me know about that.

I'm still a bit confused about the calibration of the player and TV but will get back to it ASAP.

Thank you for the ongoing support with this, I really appreciate it.

[manono]

Hi-

Yeah, there was quite a lot of discussion about that PAL problem maybe a week or so ago. If you go back a few pages in those threads, you should come across the posts about it. Even though the settings are still shown to be the same, they aren't. You fix it by moving to a different number and then back again. You can test by setting something (the brightness, say) to something really bad, so you'll notice a change immediately, then turn off the player and back on again. You should notice the change in the brightness. This doesn't affect all the settings, but most of the important ones. They'll get it fixed. I think another firmware is due in a week or so.

[moerl]

That's real bad.. but hey, as long as they're working on a fix, that's cool. The last firmware fix came with a ton of fixes and improvements and that was great to see happen. I'm confident they'll work this problem out too

What a great company. Thanks

[moerl]

I have concluded that setting it to 720p is probably the best. Also.. the picture issue is not an issue anymore.. I was never aware that there are such huge differences between the video source material for TV shows, for instance, and for full length feature films.. I read this yesterday, http://oppodigital.com/Getting-Most-out-of-DVD-on-HDTV-Display.html, though that's long after this problem went away for me. As soon as we popped in Solaris... I was blown away . I loved the movie, so maybe I wasn't paying as much attention to the picture hehe.. but no, kidding aside, the picture was crystal clear and I thoroughly enjoyed the movie.

Anyway... one question I've been asked just now and can't answer... a friend of mine is considering getting the Oppo as well, and he's asking me if an HDMI to HDMI is going to yield better quality video and audio than, say, my setup, which is DVI to HDMI with separate audio cable... can anyone answer that?

Thanks

[manono]

Hi-

one question I've been asked just now and can't answer... a friend of mine is considering getting the Oppo as well, and he's asking me if an HDMI to HDMI is going to yield better quality video and audio than, say, my setup, which is DVI to HDMI with separate audio cable... can anyone answer that?

The short answer is no. The long answer is:

There is a common misconception in the electronics world that DVI and HDMI are identical except for HDMI’s ability to carry multi-channel audio signals on top of video. This is not true. DVI outputs 8 bit RGB signals only and cannot carry 10 bit video like HDMI can. In fact, HDMI is actually capable of 12 bit transmission as well. What does this buy you? Well if you are lucky enough to have a display with an HDMI input, you can significantly reduce the contouring artifacts that are commonly associated with digital displays. A lot of this may depend on the internal processing of your display though too.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all

From the Panasonic DVD S-77 review, the 5th from the top, right below the Oppo review.

Unless your friend gets a DVD player with 10 bit processing and a display with the same, there will be no difference between DVI to HDMI and HDMI to HDMI. There aren't many DVD players with HDMI and 10 bit video DACs (that Panasonic is one). I do see the banding of which he speaks sometimes on my Samsung DLP. If you have a bright light, a street light at night, say, then there may be banding (contouring). So, theoretically he can get a better picture with an HDMI to HDMI setup. But he'll need the right player, the right TV, and the right internal processing in both.

As for the audio, as long as the player passes the unprocessed audio to the receiver, the quality of the receiver and speakers will determine the quality of the audio. So, no real advantage to HDMI to HDMI there I don't think, except they're both carried in the one cable.

You want to know a good trick to use with the Oppo? You ever get tired of wading through the FBI warning, logos, previews and all the other garbage you have to sit through after starting a DVD before you get to the menu? After you put in a DVD, at first the screen says "LOADING", and then it says "DVD-VIDEO". At that point hit the Menu button on the remote and skip straight to the menu. Or if the DVD already started playing, hit "STOP", and then "MENU" for the same thing. Man how I hate to sit through all that crap when all I want to do is to watch a movie.

[moerl]

Thank you for the awesome response!

I like the short answer as the long answer has far more detail than I care to know. Not that I don't think it's interesting, but I already have a TV and DVD player and the setup will stay the way it is now so there is no point in knowing all about 8, 10 and 12 bit processing and whatnot.
I don't think it's worth going through all that either.. the Oppo looks phenomenal on my TV. I don't see how even 12 bit processing could improve the picture any futher ... but then ya can't know unless you've seen it, right?

Concerning the audio you confirmed what I was thinking.

And you just rock!! THANK YOU for telling me about that trick! I intuitively just hit the MENU button at the beginning but it never does anything.. haha.. now I know how to do it right, thanks to you. I appreciate you telling me.. really, I'm just like you. I can't stand having to sit through all that jazz when all I want is what's ACTUALLY on the DVD. Especially the FBI warning is terribly annoying.. it stays on the screen for so long.. on some DVDs a male voice actually READS the whole FBI warning/copyright paragraph whatever out loud... that's when I start going nuts.. so, again, thank you for letting me know