Most Monitors Will Not Play New HD Video

[ROF]

Of course that's one reason. Copy protection is to help the consumer to ensure that they aren't casually violating the law. It may have some downfalls or even be a nusiance in some cases, but it's definitely Pro-Consumer in that it ensures you do not violate the law by making copies of media or using your license to the contents of the media improperly.

This type of protection ensures that you do not violate the license, but also that you have the highest quality experience with the media you've chosen.

[BJ_M]

highest quality experience with the media you've chosen.

i dont have a high quality experience waiting for HDCP to kick in every time i switch inputs, or NOT kick in because i forgot to switch the input first before i switch on my HD dvd player .. this is with DVI and HD crt direct view system and a video projection system also ..

or when testing equipment having to go through the hdmi/ hdcp menu on hookup and find the component im attaching is not listed ... issue with pioneer elite plasma system ..


or really bad experiance telling people who have 50k$++ systems that they cant play HD on anything but sat. (and that is soon to change also) because all they have is component running to their projector and it would be to difficult to run HDMI to the projector now .. or run 2 cat5e cables at the least (you can run hdmi with hdcp over two cat5e cables with a special device) ..

[ROF]

Maybe your hookup is different then others or you are trying workaround solutions that aren't true 100% HDCP Connections (ie. re-hooking/switching back and forth). Been there, done that. Gave up and went true. Most people who spent $50K realize the same thing people who spend $500 on a graphics card today realize: after a few years their expensive hardware isn't worth anything or at the very least considerable less than the money they wasted on such things.

The problem is the pirates didn't realize their actions of constantly breaking software key IP protections has led to this newer and much stronger hardware/network based protection system. Hopefully the hackers will mostly have their equipment disabled or they will be put into jail so consumers can relax and enjoy this new protection system without the worries the early adopters(You and Me) are experiencing.

That's what has caused this action to be taken by both hardware and media producers. The pirates who steal movies, record(steal) movies from pay per view, and so on have caused us alot of grief.

[LCSHG]

[ROF] ----Wrote

My only question is: Why did you buy a 250GB Hard Drive when your Operating System and BIOS will not even support half that drives capacity?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer

If you read the post you will notice I said removable drive.
I aquired the drive at a good price.
I don't think you really know what my OS or BIOS will support.
I can format tjhis drive to any configuration I want.

==============================================
==============================================

[ROF]----Wrote

Copy protection is to help the consumer to ensure that they aren't casually violating the law. It may have some downfalls or even be a nusiance in some cases, but it's definitely Pro-Consumer in that it ensures you do not violate the law by making copies of media or using your license to the contents of the media improperly.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer

You're Kidding --- Right ----- I Hope

[ROF]

[ROF] ----Wrote

My only question is: Why did you buy a 250GB Hard Drive when your Operating System and BIOS will not even support half that drives capacity?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer

If you read the post you will notice I said removable drive.
I aquired the drive at a good price.
I don't think you really know what my OS or BIOS will support.
I can format tjhis drive to any configuration I want.

==============================================
==============================================

OK! But you stated your OS as Win98SE which is FAT32. Removable makes no difference. You listed it as a component of this system, which means it's limited to the max supported by the OS. If your BIOS is also 8 years old you are looking at a max of 37GB no matter which OS you install since you can't format it any larger than this.

When you post the virtues of owning a dinosaur, don't be discouraged when someone points out the limitations of your legacy hardware.

[BJ_M]

Maybe your hookup is different then others or you are trying workaround solutions that aren't true 100% HDCP Connections (ie. re-hooking/switching back and forth). Been there, done that. Gave up and went true. Most people who spent $50K realize the same thing people who spend $500 on a graphics card today realize: after a few years their expensive hardware isn't worth anything or at the very least considerable less than the money they wasted on such things.

The problem is the pirates didn't realize their actions of constantly breaking software key IP protections has led to this newer and much stronger hardware/network based protection system. Hopefully the hackers will mostly have their equipment disabled or they will be put into jail so consumers can relax and enjoy this new protection system without the worries the early adopters(You and Me) are experiencing.

That's what has caused this action to be taken by both hardware and media producers. The pirates who steal movies, record(steal) movies from pay per view, and so on have caused us alot of grief.

i have 4 HD systems in the house and use another about 30 at work -- all of them do not have any work around solutions, use the highest quality cables and connectors -- but since i have many HD sources (and do testing on same) , I have to switch inputs --- most people may be lucky to have only one source , like what it sounds like you have ,,... I have sometimes up to 8 and often 2 or more .. HDCP is a really royal pain in the ass i assure you ... seemless switching is not possable ..


as for 50k+ systems -- you dont know what you are talking about .. the prices have not changed all that much for top of the line componets (projection and audio) ...

and even the better graphics cards (Fire Gl's, quatros, wildcats) have not really changed much in price that much lower .... wildcats have dropped the most ...

and someone time shifting pay per view, other than being really overcharged, doesnt bother me at all ... our cable supplier even makes it happen ...

i would not do it myself mainly because i will not pay the fee per PPV..

[ROF]

As usual, you speak the truth. I have two HD sources which is why I'm on the look out for a workaround solution. I also haven't fallen into the trap of PPV. The local video store have most anything I could want to watch. If they don't have it and I really want to watch a movie I'll buy it and either keep it or sell it as pre-viewed which usually allows me to recoup half my expense.

[ROF]

Anyone who spends more then $5 - $10K for a current home theatre system is just wasting money IMO. It doesn't matter if you spent that amount 20 years ago or today, it's still a waste of money given the rapid improvements in this field. The same goes for graphics cards. I always get a good laugh when someone buys a 19" LCD for $200 and $500 on a graphics card. For me, I'd spend $200 on the GC and $500 on a 22" Monitor, but each person has their own personal tastes I guess. I just can't justify the expense when in two years time I could buy several of those graphics cards and pay the same price someone did today.

[BJ_M]

i am referring to 35k - 70k home video projectors and 6-10-15k plasmas (depending on size) .. and 20-30k for the sound system plus another 40-100k on the room .....

im not that interested in walmart equipment ..



also -- imo , 60" plasmas are a real waste of money right now -- quality topped out at 55" units ..

[ROF]

My 42" HDCP ready plasma was only $1600. I could have bought a 50" for almost $3K, but it wasn't even HDCP ready, so why should I have spent that much on something that wasn't future proof? If you spend god awful sums of ca$h on a display, it's your own fault. I won't fall into that trap. Of course, some people might say $1600 on a TV is a waste of money too, of which I tend to agree with, but when you sit in front of it, you can continue to say it's a waste of money yet your eyes can't seem to leave the screen. I wouldn't buy my major electronics at wal-mart, but they do offer a good place to price point your purchases.

[Zen of Encoding]

Of course that's one reason. Copy protection is to help the consumer to ensure that they aren't casually violating the law. It may have some downfalls or even be a nusiance in some cases, but it's definitely Pro-Consumer in that it ensures you do not violate the law by making copies of media or using your license to the contents of the media improperly.

This type of protection ensures that you do not violate the license, but also that you have the highest quality experience with the media you've chosen.

Wow! I don't think I've ever seen a post containing more unadulterated
recording industry Anti-Fair-Use "Spin" than the above by Mr\Ms. ROF.
It must require a truly amazing level of focus and concentration to keep
yourself convinced that a total lack of any control over legally purchased
entertainment material is what's best for the consumer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

If ROF isn't on the payroll of the recording industry corporations already,
he (or she) *really* should be. I'm serious ROF, you should mail a copy
of your post to:

Alliance of Artists and Recording Companies
1330 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 300
Washington, DC 20036

AND

RIAA (you might find RIAA to be a bit shy, they're so cute like that, but
I think they're just being modest about their wonderful work.)

http://www.riaaamnesty.com/contact_the_riaa.htm

[BJ_M]

they are rather busy right now -- prob. not looking for recruits unless they are elected ones ..

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004047.php

[zoobie]

Just upgraded to XP and new ultra sharp fp monitor...won't be doing anything for 5 years at least...glad they're screwing up...more time for me.

[ROF]

It must require a truly amazing level of focus and concentration to keep
yourself convinced that a total lack of any control over legally purchased
entertainment material is what's best for the consumer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

First off, Do you understand Fair Use? It does not entitle you to make backups. It also does not entitle you to copy, time shift, or otherwise transfer from one media to another. It actually doesn't entitle you to anything. It offers you protection if you are in the journalistic, educational, or entertainment trade. Once you understand the purpose of fair use and how completely unrelated it is to this and many other topics on these forums then we can continue with the discussions at hand.

[LCSHG]

[ ROF ]

You have a real problem and I can see why you are in EXILE. You should be a spoke's person for Sony if not already
By the way don’t assume anything MY Dinosaur will recognize more than 37 gb and it has no legacy components.
True -- removeable drive has nothing to do with anything but it sure told me where you are coming from.

[racerxnet]

[ROF]

I must have wasted a ton of money on my system. I bet yours must be equal to what I have or better in some respects. I think I'll throw out my Electrohome 9500 CRT and buy what you have. Next goes the Levinson 33H amps and the 4 Bryston 7BSST amps also. After that I'm going to burn the Infinity RS1B's and the Kappa9 's even though they sound superb. Then I'm gonna take the sledge to the Musical Fidelity Tri Vista DAC and smash it to pieces. Hell, I might save the Pre Amp though! Then I'll pull out the Edius and DVRex and sell it for 10 bucks.

All this so I can get the same quality for 500 smackers. The suspense is killing me!!!!!

Later

[Zen of Encoding]

Do you understand Fair Use? It does not entitle you to make backups. It also does not entitle you to copy, time shift, or otherwise transfer from one media to another.

That's strange, the Supreme Court of the United States seems to have an
opinion that's different than yours:

Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc., 464 U.S. 417 (1984), also known as the "Betamax case", was a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States which ruled that the making of individual copies of complete television shows for purposes of time-shifting does not constitute copyright infringement, but is fair use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._v._Universal_City_Studios

[ROF]

Did you just read the wiki or do you actually understand it's implications. Wiki's are nice, but the Star and People magazine have more vital information.

The ruling in 1974 did nothing to help you as the consumer. It stopped litigation against the manufacturers of VCRs from liability for contributory infringement. Nothing more. Most of that ruling has now been superceded by current laws to include the vital DMCA for consumer rights. There is still plenty of ongoing litigation so there seems to be no end to where what's right and what's wrong. Hopefully sometime soon that will all get cleared up, but seriously what does a court ruling in 1974 have to do with monitors of today not being able to play video of tomorrow? How many owned color televisions in 1974? Anyone have a digital set? How about a flat panel? Was HDCP available? Was High Definition even part of the video equation?

[ROF]

[ ROF ]
By the way don’t assume anything MY Dinosaur will recognize more than 37 gb and it has no legacy components.

I don't assume anything. I know for a fact the 48bit LBA is unavailable for your BIOS and choice of OS. Both must be 48bit LBA compliant in order to format and use anything larger than 137GB. Your Dinosaur is inadequate to support your drive. If your BIOS is indeed 8 years old you may also be experiencing the 32GB barrier as well.

As to your Legacy components, I saw you listed a 100ZIP, an ATI Rage, and a 4x CD-Rom. I can only assume you were joking when you said you don't have any legacy components. Your 4x CD-Rom and Rage Card are the epitome of legacy. These components have not been for sale in years. I will say one thing though. If your 4x CD-Rom is still working you may want to consider contacting a museum. Working ones are extremely rare. Last year I managed to resuscitate one that was darn near dead. Why did I even bother? Because like you, there are people out there who like their old reliable work horses and don't want to spend $40 to upgrade.

[somebodeez]

Of course that's one reason. Copy protection is to help the consumer to ensure that they aren't casually violating the law. It may have some downfalls or even be a nusiance in some cases, but it's definitely Pro-Consumer in that it ensures you do not violate the law by making copies of media or using your license to the contents of the media improperly.

This type of protection ensures that you do not violate the license, but also that you have the highest quality experience with the media you've chosen.

Horsefeathers
I seriously doubt if there are very many people here swallowing that load




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsefeathers

[somebodeez]

... but seriously what does a court ruling in 1974 have to do with monitors of today not being able to play video of tomorrow? How many owned color televisions in 1974? Anyone have a digital set? How about a flat panel? Was HDCP available? Was High Definition even part of the video equation?

By that line of reasoning, Americans should also disregard the Constitution of the United States and not base anything on it because after all, that's REALLY old!

[ROF]

... but seriously what does a court ruling in 1974 have to do with monitors of today not being able to play video of tomorrow? How many owned color televisions in 1974? Anyone have a digital set? How about a flat panel? Was HDCP available? Was High Definition even part of the video equation?

By that line of reasoning, Americans should also disregard the Constitution of the United States and not base anything on it because after all, that's REALLY old!

Was the Constitution permanently written in an unalterable form? Has nothing been added to it? Why was that? Although the Constitution is old it is no less valid today then it was when originally written. No laws have superceded it. The 1974 ruling(not law) was a judgement of the interpretation of laws at the time. That ruling has been superceded so many times since it was handed down that you just have to laugh when people think it's still valid today. Portions of it may be valid in some peoples minds, but for the most part it only exists as history.

[somebodeez]

And now we don't have to abide by a judge's ruling that we don't like because after all, that's not a law.

Ah well, hopefully one day all of this mess will be ancient history too and we won't have to be concerned about it anymore.

[ROF]

Agreed.

Anybody know of a good HDCP Ready Set Top Converter?

BTW, there is nothing the general consumer needs to abide by in the 1974 ruling unless you are manufacturing Betamax VCRs.

[adam]

The Betamax ruling is most certainly still valid today. It has not been overruled by subsequent caselaw (duh its a Supreme Court case) and it has not been preempted by statute. It has in fact been codified INTO statute because its holding is so recognized now. It did create the classic test for 3rd party manufacturer liability for contributory infringement but it also read the right to time-shift into the Fair Use exception. Yes, the Betamax ruling essentially created the time-shifting exception and this is an exception for the consumer, not the manufacturer. I will admit that most people don't realize how limited time-shifting is but nevertheless, it is a defense to copyright infringement and it is universally recognized in the US and it is most certainly a consumer friendly ruling.

As long as a case has not been overruled or preempted by statute, the older it is the STRONGER the authority it is and this is a Supreme Court case anyway so that's mandatory persuasive law. Subsequent cases mean nothing to it. The Betamax decision is probably the most cited and recognized case in all intellectual property cases. While in lawschool I was probably required to read it maybe 12 times in all.

A judgement by any court has the same force and effect of law as if it were voted on by the Legislature. A ~30 year old judgment by the Supreme Court of the US is as good as gold because its now so ingrained in our society that the Legislature will probably never preempt it by statute.

ROF I can respect and even agree with some of your opinions regarding HDCP and copyrights and copyright protections, but you bring up legal issues in every thread now and its clear that you have not done your legal research. You basically just conclude that everything is illegal when its not, and you can see the backlash it invites. What you are doing is irresponsible. Most of your legal statements and reasoning have been flat out wrong.

[LCSHG]

[ROF]

I don't think any of our debate has any thing to do with this thread.

You need to get your FACTS and conceptions straight. You can start at this site. It's very simple and shouldn't be to much for you

http://www.hexff.com/w98_hd.php

I stand on my opinion; in my original post
Quote
My opinion;; to many are spending time and money for perfection and a resolution they can’t see or was not there in the first place.
Unquote

We can spend to much time and money with our electronic gadgets. Like I'm doing now. Enough already, but one last comment.

I do have a right to copy media that I have purchased. As an example
I purchased a VHS tape of a movie, some time ago, and play it often because I like it. It is infected with Macrovision. I copied this tape to a DVD so as to enjoy it's use without deterioration and ease of storage.
If you feel that a workaround any copy protection is a violation of someones media rights; Screw you and the the media.

[ROF]

@Adam

Sorry I don't pretend to be a lawyer. I just read the case. I read other more recent judgements, and realize that when something happens in the judicial system after something else, it supercedes the previous judgement. if that is incorrect i guess I'm wrong. In my opinion, the DMCA is more applicable to this discussion which was what I tried to say over a page and a half ago. My viewpoint of the subject of IP protections obviously differ from quite a few people here. I dare say though, there are those here who do agree with me, yet to avoid discussion with the blind RIAA is bad groupings they remain silent.

Businesses are in the business to make a profit. IP is big business. Protection of IP is also big business. Most of these protection schemes wouldn't be necessary if the rogue elements out there would stop producing their reverse engineered works. Who pays the price for their illegal activities? You, me, and everyone else here. That's why monitors of today will not play the video of tomorrow. The output of IP from a trasmitting device must be completely protected and that protection must be checked several times while the IP is being displayed because there are people out there who want to get something for nothing. It isn't the industry who is limiting us. It's the rogue elements who are allowed to persist that are forcing the industry to limit us.

[edDV]

My 42" HDCP ready plasma was only $1600. I could have bought a 50" for almost $3K, but it wasn't even HDCP ready, so why should I have spent that much on something that wasn't future proof? If you spend god awful sums of ca$h on a display, it's your own fault. I won't fall into that trap. Of course, some people might say $1600 on a TV is a waste of money too, of which I tend to agree with, but when you sit in front of it, you can continue to say it's a waste of money yet your eyes can't seem to leave the screen. I wouldn't buy my major electronics at wal-mart, but they do offer a good place to price point your purchases.

If you recently got a 42" plasma for $1600 it's most likely an EDTV (720-768x480-576) or at best just a little higher in resolution. That is unless it "fell off the truck".

If that is the case, you don't have HDTV capability to start. HDCP might make getting downscaled EDTV resolutions from HD DVD or HD broadcast a bit easier but current progressive DVD would work as well.

Agreed.

Anybody know of a good HDCP Ready Set Top Converter?

BTW, there is nothing the general consumer needs to abide by in the 1974 ruling unless you are manufacturing Betamax VCRs.

Betamax set a precident. "Stare decisis" as they say in hip TV news channels.

Almost all PC and set top HD tuners were built to include the brodcast flag as a firmware-software update. The way the broadcast flag works if implemented as proposed, all HDTV transmission is blocked unless the the box is capable of detecting the flag. Those who currently receive HDTV will loose that capability unless the tuner is updated or replaced.

[LCSHG]

[ adam ]

Your post is right on.

The media dosen't seem to be able to stop commercial piracy. They don't seem to be able to take on China for one, so they piock on the little guy.
It's not everyday Joe Blow and hackers, causing the media to come up wiyh all there BS copy protection. It's the challange and the Media causing them to develop to work arounds.
I don't think the industry will develop or embrace a system that is not compatable with older equipment to a reasonable extent. It would cost to much in lost revenue.


[ edDV ]

Your post is right on also

[ROF]

My 42" HDCP ready plasma was only $1600. I could have bought a 50" for almost $3K, but it wasn't even HDCP ready, so why should I have spent that much on something that wasn't future proof? If you spend god awful sums of ca$h on a display, it's your own fault. I won't fall into that trap. Of course, some people might say $1600 on a TV is a waste of money too, of which I tend to agree with, but when you sit in front of it, you can continue to say it's a waste of money yet your eyes can't seem to leave the screen. I wouldn't buy my major electronics at wal-mart, but they do offer a good place to price point your purchases.

If you recently got a 42" plasma for $1600 it's most likely an EDTV (720-768x480-576) or at best just a little higher in resolution. That is unless it "fell off the truck".

If that is the case, you don't have HDTV capability to start. HDCP might make getting downscaled EDTV resolutions from HD DVD or HD broadcast a bit easier but current progressive DVD would work as well.

It's Hisense TA42P 42" HDTV Plasma with a 1024x768 resolution, DVI w/HDCP, and 3000:1 Contrast. It retails for $1800, but I got it for $1450 and a wall mount for $99. It's widescreen for that true 16:9 display. I bought it to connect a media center PC and the DVI/HDCP Support. It came with speakers, which I do not use since I already have my own theater system. It didn't fall off a truck, but if it did I'm quite sure it would have been damaged in that process. Most LCD/Plasmas could not survive such a fate.

I'm looking towards purchasing a smaller one for another room after the exceptional display/inputs of this thing.