Most Monitors Will Not Play New HD Video

[gadgetguy]

I don't ever remember seeing any that will convert to analog component. There are several manufacturers of DVI/VGA HDCP Supported Boxes, but nothing that would drastically reduce the visual quality in order to support component video television. If someone knows of a link to one, I'd be interested in knowing for future reference.

I'm a real novice to this HDTV stuff but is this the kind of thing that you're asking about?

[ROF]

All the cards listed there support HDCP and this converter will support HDCP to pass through to component, so yes, this is what I was looking for. Thanks for the link.

[edDV]

All the cards listed there support HDCP and this converter will support HDCP to pass through to component, so yes, this is what I was looking for. Thanks for the link.

That adapter converts the analog VGA pins on the DVI-I connector to analog component Y, Pr, Pb in 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i.

It has nothing to do with HDCP. Any encrypted HDTV source (e.g. HD DVD) will not pass through analog in high def. The encryption scheme requires digital HDCP is active on the monitor connection or resolution is limited to 720x480.

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/support/DVI_HDMI.htm
http://www.siliconimage.com/docs/Press_PDFs/223300.pdf

[ROF]

It has nothing to do with HDCP. Any encrypted HDTV source (e.g. HD DVD) will not pass through analog in high def. The encryption scheme requires digital HDCP is active on the monitor connection or resolution is limited to 720x480.

That's just a given with any adapter, however if you try to direct output from the VC to a composite video source using your S-Video connection on your VC, you will get a blank screen because the S-Video Connection is not HDCP compliant. However, use of this adpater will allow you to perform the output with, as you say, a degraded image. The question you have to ask yourself is: If I'm a digital technophile, why am I outputting to composite video anyways? This adapter is for those who don't want to invest in an HDCP supported screen.

[edDV]

It has nothing to do with HDCP. Any encrypted HDTV source (e.g. HD DVD) will not pass through analog in high def. The encryption scheme requires digital HDCP is active on the monitor connection or resolution is limited to 720x480.

That's just a given with any adapter, however if you try to direct output from the VC to a composite video source using your S-Video connection on your VC, you will get a blank screen because the S-Video Connection is not HDCP compliant. However, use of this adpater will allow you to perform the output with, as you say, a degraded image. The question you have to ask yourself is: If I'm a digital technophile, why am I outputting to composite video anyways? This adapter is for those who don't want to invest in an HDCP supported screen.

ROF ---
You are spewing nonsense in this and other threads. You are entitled to your views on DRM philosophy but I'm going to continue to call you on your technical errors. HDCP has nothing to do with analog.

Read the two articles above and get your facts straight.

[ROF]

ROF ---
You are spewing nonsense in this and other threads. You are entitled to your views on DRM philosophy but I'm going to continue to call you on your technical errors. HDCP has nothing to do with analog.

Read the two articles above and get your facts straight.

DAH! It's a digital thing. I think everyone knows that. I think you need to review what this device does and how it will help in supporting Non-HDCP capable displays. I think you need to read up on this subject more than I do.

[Cornucopia]

ROF--

The adapter listed in the supplied link above was for a DVI (Not HDCP-compliant, Digital) to Component (Analog) adapter. There's no HDCP/HDMI capability at all with that item. edDV was right.

Scott

[ROF]

I stand corrected. It appears that HDCP to any analog source is illegal. I also thought the price of such a thing was a little off too. However, since I'm not 100% up on this thing, how about this device? Combined with the $3 adapter?

[edDV]

A device like that would be unlicensed and would have to use fake license and keys to break the HDCP. Read the articles above on authentication.

http://www.spatz-tech.de/spatz/dvi_magic.htm

[ROF]

So you're saying that won't work either? It has the receiver chips though. At $450 US Dollars I don't think it would be worth my time anyways. Another question, Can any computer device currently on the market output HDCP? It says they are HDCP capable, but are they truely ready for this?

[waheed]

Can a PC output HDCP content depends on the Graphics Card (as well as OS - Windows Vista. Win XP does not support HDCP). If the DVI port of the Graphic card supports HDCP, then yes. Many new Graphics Cards do support HDCP such as the Geforce 6 series for example. So thats not a problem. Just need to ensure your monitor also supports it, which I doubt any current monitor on the market does.

[ROF]

I thought software wasn't supposed to play a part in the scheme? I know I've heard the OS must support it, but if software is involved in the line of this hardware based authentication, wouldn't that make it all that much easier to break?

If the box I posted above is not supported and yet it contains the same chips as your graphics card, wouldn't the graphics card also be invaldated?

[edDV]

The issue is summarized in these paragraphs from the Sigma Designs link above.

"In addition to the encryption and decryption functions, HDCP implements authentication to verify that the receiving device (such as a display or television) is licensed to receive encrypted content. Re-authentication occurs approximately every two seconds to continuously confirm the security of the DVI or HDMI interface. If, at any time, re-authentication does not occur, for example by disconnecting a device and/or connecting an illegal recording device, the source device (such as a DVD player or set-top box) ends transmission of encrypted content.

If a device's encryption/decryption keys have been compromised, the HDCP licensing administrator places the compromised device on a revocation list carried by System Renewability Messages (SRMs). SRMs are passed on to devices via prerecorded or broadcasted content, or received from another compliant device. Thus, once a device has been compromised, it will eventually no longer be able to send or receive encrypted content."

Here is what it takes to get a license and Keys

http://www.digital-cp.com/home

[ROF]

That doesn't explain that if someone builds a box such as spatz with chips from an existing device and thus "blacklisting" the device. Once you begin receiving an hDCP Signal again, any device using that chip will become invalidated and no longer play HDCP Compliant video.

If that's true, the hackers are going to have no end to their joy as they put nVidia and ATI out of business by creating devices using their HDCP chips.

[Cornucopia]

SRM's are such an accident (and huge resulting consumer litigation) waiting to happen.

Scott

[ROF]

That's how I read it. If a chips keys are invalidated, I'm quite sure the hackers out there are salivating at buying a $40 Videocard and using the chips illegally and thus crippling the original device the chip came from. The Spatz box is essentially the first breed of these devices which will become more and more numerous.

[adam]

If a device's encryption/decryption keys have been compromised, the HDCP licensing administrator places the compromised device on a revocation list.

They revoke the affected device not the keys generally. It won't affect anyone other than the person with the compromised device.

[ROF]

If a device's encryption/decryption keys have been compromised, the HDCP licensing administrator places the compromised device on a revocation list.

They revoke the affected device not the keys generally. It won't affect anyone other than the person with the compromised device.

That's exactly my point. The device built will be based upon say an nVidia chip with keys. The keys in those chips are revoked thus disabling all devices using those keys including the nVidia card the chips came from.

[adam]

Dude all the articles that edDV posted explained how this stuff works. HDCP devices have a controller card which authenticates the input/output connector. If the device is tampered with then that device can be remotely deactivated (still works just fails encryption/decryption cability). It has no effect on any other devices made by that manufacturer even if they use the same keys. This really should be pretty obvious otherwise, like you said, anyone could snip a wire in their unit and kill everyone elses.

Like I said, they revoke the device, not the keys.

[ROF]

But if it functions as a bridge without failing the 2 second checks, how can it be revoked since it does what it's supposed to, just with an added value option of supported a trickle stream elsewhere?

[adam]

I don't even understand where you are going with this. If its an unlicensed device its going to have to find a way to use fake keys. That's the main thing protecting this technology, all the keys are assigned and handled by a central agency. If it gets away with it, then yeah it will work. If it raises flags it can be remotely deactivated. I don't know what you mean when you say it is still doing what its supposed to. If its keys get flagged as being compromised then the device is going to be revoked. In either case this will have no effect on anyone else's devices.

[ROF]

Look at the link to the Spatz device. I won't bother with this anymore. I got my answer somewhere else. Thank goodness there's no investing in a $4000 Monitor for me.

[adam]

I am looking at the device, the problem is you have no idea what you're talking about.

[CaptainVideo]

Adam,

Trying to get a handle on this so I don't buy all the misinformation.

If I buy say a Pioneer Model HDCPSUX HD-DVD with HDCP encrypted DVI output and have an HDCP capable TV and I somehow mess with the Pioneer HDCPSUX encryption scheme so that I can bypass the checks, the central agency will figure this out and be able to remotely disable just my specific player and not the whole line of Pioneer HDCPSUX players?

If that is the case, I'm guessing that their must be some unique identifier to each individual device?

[adam]

Yes. Each device is assigned a unique Key Selection Vector which corresponds to the Device Private Keys. They can disable just one device without affecting anyone else's.

Whenever two devices interact in transmitting a protected signal they check the other's KSV against their own revocation list. The list gets updated periodically through interaction with other devices or through the receiving of certain content. So if your KSV gets added to the revocation list eventually it will make its way through all HDCP devices and if you try to interact with them the authentication fails and goodbye HD.

The KEYS are not revoked, the unique KSV number for each individual device is.

[MikieV]

I don't know or can name a single product that isn't priced differently depending upon where it's sold on the planet.

Agreed. "Gray-market" electronics and cameras come to mind (cheaper because of no money to US warranty support). Prescription drugs also come to mind.

Corporations have a right to make money. They also have a right to charge whatever they feel is cost effective in the region it's being sold.

And, as with cheaper prescrition drugs in Canada, people will resist corporate attempts to charge them more than people nearby are being charged.

Region encoding is not for anti-piracy, it is not legally-protected "copy-protection", the only thing which it is protecting is their "what the market will bear" pricing.

They have the right to charge what they want. I have the right to laugh and walk away. Win - Win.

[LCSHG]

Some seem to think that a computer over 3 yr. old is out dated junk.

The one writing this post is almost 8 years old, PIII 800mhz, 100 FSB, 512 m., 9.5gb IBM HDD, ATI Rage, 100 zip drive and a no name 4X CD/ROM Burner from an old Compaq, [that has never failed]. A newer DL-DVD burner and a removable 250 gb HDD, I use Cheetah as the software for the burners. It’s running Win 98 SE. I've never waited for it. IT waits for me, does what I tell it, and doesn’t report Home, I can over-clock the CPU to 1.2 gh..A speed test says it is really fast but in the real world I can’t see much or any difference, so why push it. I can run many DOS programs and use the DOS tools from 3.3 to 7.1 and the tools and registry backup [ERU] from Win 95.including those tools included in Win 98SE. AS for maintenance, I keep it clean and it runs fine. Upgrades, in too many instances is just a way for suppliers and service shops to make money, For my use the graphics card is fine and the CPU is fast enough.
A person can spend a lot of money and time getting new computers and goodies.
I used this to capture, copy, dub, using Decrypter, Shrink etc. and it did an admiral job. I got tired of the whole thing and bought myself a stand-alone recorder from WALMART, an ilo DVDRHD04 [with HDD]. This thing [with hack] will record and copy anything. I've had it almost a year with no problems and again for me it beats the PC period. I could use the PC and record to a DL-DVD. The possible bitrate difference between the stand-alone recorder and using a PC and is not worth the effort, and if in a very rare case one disk is not enough I can split the program and put it on two disks. I used to put a leader on the end of a program to take up the full capacity of a disk so I would only have one thumbnail, Now -- who cares if there is a 10 min empty space thumbnail.

My opinion;; to many are spending time and money for perfection and a resolution they can’t see or was not there in the first place.

As for copy protection, CPRM, speed detection, etc. are a real pain. Many programs are using copy protection to only copy once,[or not at all], They copy to a tivo HDD but not another recorders disk and Skewing the disks so they won’t play on anything, if spun over 2X. Theses copy protection methods seem to a growing problem and many users are seeking non-compliant units or keeping their older units. A number of Pioneer users say they will keep there older 420
Corporations, like stores, have a right to make money [reasonable not gluttony]. I don’t have to buy. When they stop me from using and copying material I buy that’s going to far.
I hope Sony's copy prtection and Blu-Ray is put in the same box as their Batamax..
That goes for China’s new standard that is not compatible with DVD.
If they give me to much trouble I’ll just do something else, screw Sony and the Media. If we all did we would really screw them.

[rhegedus]

My opinion;; to many are spending time and money for perfection and a resolution they can’t see or was not there in the first place.

Agreed 100%.

[ROF]

The one writing this post is almost 8 years old, PIII 800mhz, 100 FSB, 512 m., 9.5gb IBM HDD, ATI Rage, 100 zip drive and a no name 4X CD/ROM Burner from an old Compaq, [that has never failed]. A newer DL-DVD burner and a removable 250 gb HDD, I use Cheetah as the software for the burners. It’s running Win 98 SE. I've never waited for it. IT waits for me, does what I tell it, and doesn’t report Home, I can over-clock the CPU to 1.2 gh..A speed test says it is really fast but in the real world I can’t see much or any difference, so why push it. I can run many DOS programs and use the DOS tools from 3.3 to 7.1 and the tools and registry backup [ERU] from Win 95.including those tools included in Win 98SE. AS for maintenance, I keep it clean and it runs fine. Upgrades, in too many instances is just a way for suppliers and service shops to make money, For my use the graphics card is fine and the CPU is fast enough.
A person can spend a lot of money and time getting new computers and goodies.

My only question is: Why did you buy a 250GB Hard Drive when your Operating System and BIOS will not even support half that drives capacity?

[mikesbytes]

Cant but get the feeling that the real reason for requiring a new computer to play them is so new copy protection can be engaged.