Most Monitors Will Not Play New HD Video

[edDV]

It looks like a HDTV capable* Media Center PC is going to be an expensive beast in the beginning.

Microsoft, Intel, Apple, ATI, Nvidea et.al. are hoping to sell alot of hardware into this media center space. I think I may sell all my remaining stock in those companies.

*capble for HD DVD and the possible "broadcast flag" restrictions.

[waheed]

Just give it time. Sooner or later, the new high definiton formats will be cracked one time or another. Nothing is 100% secure.

[Paul_G]

I only update my computer hardware when there is a damn good reason in doing so, HD video and a new version of windows is far from a good reason, i never play the update game and never will.

[RottenFoxBreath]

yeh,all in all IMO,the new steps can blow donkey balls for all i care,and the companies realise that its gonna hit there pockets first.
when tvs drop to sub £1000 for at least a 42",ps parts are sub £100,£200 for monitors(17")and players are £100,thats when ill get into it

[edDV]

I only update my computer hardware when there is a damn good reason in doing so, HD video and a new version of windows is far from a good reason, i never play the update game and never will.

Same here.
I update hardware when I can see ~50-75% render speed increase and then often update in pairs of machines so I can be working on one and rendering on the other. The old motherboards get downtasked for PVR or web surf duty.

Most of my upgrade money goes into software rather than hardware.

[Almost Human]

HDTV - I think I'll just read a few good books instead!

[VideoTechMan]

This thread has gone way off topic for the most part. I dont watch many movies on my PC anyway so I wont even bother upgrading my equipment. Makes me want to embrace my analog TV sets even more, as well as the current DVD technology. Using component connectivity with progressive scan, it's fine enough for me for the time being.

VTM

[harrisonford]

Yeah not to worry there are already work around for current monitor and work arounds,, no big deal hdcp

have a good night

[CaptainVideo]

No need to worry. HD-DVD/Blu-Ray are far far off in the future. Many years before they get anywhere so M$ and the MPAA and any manufacturers who go along with them will lose a boatload of money trying to force this on consumers. Consumers hate to have things forced on them and everytime they've tried they've failed so I'm not worried about this.

People aren't going to upgrade to HD-DVD players let alone money on a new monitor and OS. Remember XP was a huge bomb sales wise and still doesn't have the market share to date M$ was expecting. Adding more DRM garbage is going to make Vista fail worse than XP did at launch.

[ROF]

Digital Rights Management is for the safety of the consumer. It's an added value to the content which ensures that you own the media and that you own the hardware capable and certified to play such material. It also ensures that your friend who steals material of your favorite artist is not allowed the freedom to view/listen to such content. I hope they continue to improve this and hopefully in the near future they will be able to disable remotely hardware used by people in illegal manners. I also hope we continue to see these sorts of things added to other entertainment devices. It makes our lives so much easier knowing that we aren't violating the law and that we have equipment approved to display the types of media we purchase.

HDCP workarounds or external boxes are available for existing machines. Buying one of those will not require a monitor, graphics card, or software to support HDCP. A single purchase will ensure continued high quality video is displayed in a legal manner upon your desktop.

[waheed]

Digital Rights Management is for the safety of the consumer. It's an added value to the content which ensures that you own the media and that you own the hardware capable and certified to play such material. It also ensures that your friend who steals material of your favorite artist is not allowed the freedom to view/listen to such content.

I strongly disagree. DRM is for the benefit of big corporations only. It provides no benefit to the consumer. Its a way of controlling the market, just like region coding. Let me give you an example. I have purchased a original copy of T2 Extreme Edition playable in WMV HD format on Region 1. I had no choice but to purchase Region 1 as this DVD is not available on Region 2 (UK) where I live. Now the T2 disc in WMV HD uses internet authetication DRM which does not check whether you have a original or copy disc, but check where you are located. I get Wrong Region error of some sort when DRM is being authenticated.

It means I have a legit WMV HD copy of T2, but unplayable, all thanks to DRM

[RottenFoxBreath]

Digital Rights Management is for the safety of the consumer. It's an added value to the content which ensures that you own the media and that you own the hardware capable and certified to play such material. It also ensures that your friend who steals material of your favorite artist is not allowed the freedom to view/listen to such content. I hope they continue to improve this and hopefully in the near future they will be able to disable remotely hardware used by people in illegal manners. I also hope we continue to see these sorts of things added to other entertainment devices. It makes our lives so much easier knowing that we aren't violating the law and that we have equipment approved to display the types of media we purchase.

HDCP workarounds or external boxes are available for existing machines. Buying one of those will not require a monitor, graphics card, or software to support HDCP. A single purchase will ensure continued high quality video is displayed in a legal manner upon your desktop.

*you sound like you like the idea of big brother telling you when,what,and where you can view,and thats a bad thing.

and how is it an "added value",thats just complete and utter shit.
couple that with you wanting and hoping for "remote disabling".jeez...that would be wrong on so many levels,to allow corporations into your home uninvited,even for maybe a random scan...hell i hope it never happens.

and this quote" It makes our lives so much easier knowing that we aren't violating the law and that we have equipment approved to display the types of media we purchase."
why dont we just turn the world into a corporate ran judge dredd megacity style world,thats pretty much how it would be,--illegal use of video device,3 years,juve cubes!

[EAO]

[quote="waheed"]

Digital Rights Management is for the safety of the consumer. It's an added value to the content which ensures that you own the media and that you own the hardware capable and certified to play such material. It also ensures that your friend who steals material of your favorite artist is not allowed the freedom to view/listen to such content.

I'm so glad I have a Big Brother like you to explain it all to me.

Thank You.

[ROF]

I strongly disagree. DRM is for the benefit of big corporations only. It provides no benefit to the consumer. Its a way of controlling the market, just like region coding. Let me give you an example. I have purchased a original copy of T2 Extreme Edition playable in WMV HD format on Region 1. I had no choice but to purchase Region 1 as this DVD is not available on Region 2 (UK) where I live. Now the T2 disc in WMV HD uses internet authetication DRM which does not check whether you have a original or copy disc, but check where you are located. I get Wrong Region error of some sort when DRM is being authenticated.

It means I have a legit WMV HD copy of T2, but unplayable, all thanks to DRM

Correction. You have a legit copy being played in an illegitimate manner(wrong region). In this case, DRM is supporting the corporations rights to localize where a copy is playable. You own the media, you do not own the content of the media. That's where most people get confused. Nothing has changed, that agreement has been around since the phonograph.

[ROF]

*you sound like you like the idea of big brother telling you when,what,and where you can view,and thats a bad thing.

and how is it an "added value",thats just complete and utter shit.
couple that with you wanting and hoping for "remote disabling".jeez...that would be wrong on so many levels,to allow corporations into your home uninvited,even for maybe a random scan...hell i hope it never happens.

The added value is knowing that each time you watch your purchased media and view it, you have comfort knowing that everyone else has to pay the same price. Doesn't it upset anyone when their neighbor is tsealing cable and yet you are paying a cable bill? The added value of this scheme is knowledge that everyone is on an even playing field.

Big Brother has been talking to everyone for years. The problem is the threat to IP has increased much faster than the protection of the law abiding consumer has dwindled. Remote disabling is one of the key ideas which will serve to prevent the rampant thievery that is occuring in the entertainment industry. The corporation (or big brother as you call them in order to make them sound scary) will have a label attached to your hardware clearly displaying what transactions will occur. They won't be intruding in an uninvited manner. Your purchase and installation of their hardware is an agreement that you will allow this to occur.

I challenge you to purchase a copy of windows XP legally and not activate it. What happens after 30 days to your windows machine? Guess what? Big Brother is probably already in your house and you let them in when you signed up for cable service or installed and activated any recent software purchases. This is nothing new. Even your telephone company has a monitoring service. The power companies recently installed a bluetooth device on my meter. Each month they read my meter by standing on the street and entering my house when I'm not home via a signal to read gas and electric meters. If you don't think "big brother" has already invaded your living space, I would have to question which planet you are living on.

[ozymango]

The added value is knowing that each time you watch your purchased media and view it, you have comfort knowing that everyone else has to pay the same price. Doesn't it upset anyone when their neighbor is tsealing cable and yet you are paying a cable bill?

Frankly, I don't give a rat's patootie what my neighbor is doing unless she's doing it to me (and unless it's something I don't want her to do to me!). But no, I don't "take comfort" in that everyone is on an "even playing field." That smacks of ... hell, I don't know what it smacks of. But it smacks of something. Anyway, if that level playing field makes you feel better, bully for you.

They won't be intruding in an uninvited manner. Your purchase and installation of their hardware is an agreement that you will allow this to occur.

Sure. In the fine print. How about we cut and paste some of the "agreements" we agree to pretty much any time we do anything involving software or "licensing agreements" anymore when we click that little button? Sure, legally, it's all "up front" and if you don't agree, then don't click ... but please don't tell me they're doing it all for my good and happy service ("you agreed to let us do this when you clicked that button!!! It's all your choice!!!"). Bollocks to that! Sure, we have a choice -- agree to everything, or else go away.

Which is "fair," from a legal and "business" point of view. This is one reason why I support the GNU and Linux and those people who say "Bollocks!" to those "agreement" forms that are fifteen pages long and pretty much give most companies the right to do what they want, and change the conditions of what they provide pretty much any time, at their discretion, and if you don't like it, bye-bye.

That's fine. But to them I say, "bye-bye!"

Big Brother is probably already in your house and you let them in when you signed up for cable service or installed and activated any recent software purchases ... If you don't think "big brother" has already invaded your living space, I would have to question which planet you are living on.

Yes. And we all must conform! There can be no challenge to Big Brother! Law abiding citizens should all rejoice at our level playing field, where all are equal and we all watch "Oprah" at 4pm daily and eat at 5:30 and raise 2.5 children in our heterosexual relationships and replace our video cards every six months and ....

[edDV]

Digital Rights Management is for the safety of the consumer. It's an added value to the content which ensures that you own the media and that you own the hardware capable and certified to play such material.

Safety?

Wrong - You may own the plastic but you are licencing the media.

The point on hardware is your existing hardware is made obsolete. You are required to buy multiple pieces of new hardware to play the new HD DVD.

It also ensures that your friend who steals material of your favorite artist is not allowed the freedom to view/listen to such content. I hope they continue to improve this and hopefully in the near future they will be able to disable remotely hardware used by people in illegal manners.

Why do I have to buy new hardware to protect somebody elses property from being stolen by my neighbor. By that logic, I should be paying for movie studio security guard's communication equipment.

HDCP workarounds or external boxes are available for existing machines. Buying one of those will not require a monitor, graphics card, or software to support HDCP. A single purchase will ensure continued high quality video is displayed in a legal manner upon your desktop.

Now ***you*** are probably breaking the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. You cannot make or buy equipment that breaks encryption.

If you could just insert a box to defeat encryption, why have HDCP in the first place?

[rhegedus]

Digital Rights Management is for the safety of the consumer. It's an added value to the content which ensures that you own the media and that you own the hardware capable and certified to play such material. It also ensures that your friend who steals material of your favorite artist is not allowed the freedom to view/listen to such content. I hope they continue to improve this and hopefully in the near future they will be able to disable remotely hardware used by people in illegal manners. I also hope we continue to see these sorts of things added to other entertainment devices. It makes our lives so much easier knowing that we aren't violating the law and that we have equipment approved to display the types of media we purchase.

First of all, if I've bought something I don't need a big fat corporation to spend $m on useless technology just to confirm that I own the media - I just look at the nice box and the receipt. I also know I own the hardware since I'm the poor bastard that has to pay the extra $ just to play the disk which I've just bought. And if I'm lucky, it will be a one that I already own on DVD but can no longer watch because my new super dooper hardware isn't backwards compatible so I'l need to media players just to be able to watch my purchases.

Next, all this extra $ spent won't protect against piracy. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but no anti-piracy system yet has lasted longer than a weekend of scrutiny by a hackers group who's entire hardware budget is less than the lunch bill of the CEO whose products I'm paying for. Face it, if the flagship product of the biggest software company in the world has holes picked in it by a 16 year old, then I don't hold out much hope for this white elephant either.

What's stranger still is that someone who claims to work with computers would actually believe that any of this will work....

[waheed]

Correction. You have a legit copy being played in an illegitimate manner(wrong region). In this case, DRM is supporting the corporations rights to localize where a copy is playable.

DRM is supporting how to control the market. Thats all. Corporations can charge more people in one region than another.

You own the media, you do not own the content of the media.

I may not own the contents of the media but I do have the right to view the media, which is not the case. Otherwise, whats the point of buying the DVD. Unfortunately, before purchasing the DVD, I had no idea it had dail up DRM and only found out when i tried to play the DVD.

Companies need to look at it for a different approach. Now in my case, will I ever pay for another legit DVD with DRM, no way.

I am not advocating warez here, but there are copies of T2 in WMV HD with the DRM carcked available on the internet. Now, it becomes very tempting to obtain these alternatives without DRM than to purchase a original copy with DRM that is unplayable because big corporations want to screw around with you.

Im sure many people are in the same position as im in. With DRM, im forced not to buy originals. I would say thats coroprations forcing people towards piracy. Besides, we already know DRM has already been cracked.

[ROF]

Im sure many people are in the same position as im in. With DRM, im forced not to buy originals.

No. You are forced to watch movies legally supported and purchased for your home viewing entertainment. Region Coding is only one prevention of piracy. It's not up to the consumer to decide how much a company wishes to charge people in each region to view their content. It's also not up to the consumer to decide whether a company decides to not release their content within a certain region. If you violate those region codings or break them, you further support the idea behind dial up DRM. It's OK to disagree with the DRM, but if you violate the law, you must realize there are consequences that can occur. Similiar to how the consequences of buying a region 1 disc and trying to play it in a region 2 device. The consequences are that it may or may not work properly since you have violated the trust of the content contained upon the disc. Like it or not, continuing to support illegal tactics is going to only increase legislative support to continue the crackdown upon legitimate users in order to ensure the thieves are being contained, if only for a little while.

[ROF]

@rhegedus

Whether or not I believe it will work is inconsequential. I personally feel that nothing is secure. I believe if it can be viewed, it can be copied, plain and simple.

I also believe it's been stated that both next generation DVD media players will be backwards compatible with current DVDs. The confirmation of your ownership of that media is an extra added-value step to ensure that another anti-piracy measure is taken. When your computer checks for anti-virus updates, does it tell you about it? It can, but you can also set it up to just perform this check automatically. Network based DRM works the same way, so you might not even have to know it's occuring, but you can sleep soundly knowing that the geek down the block is back at Walmart buying another piece of equipment after the network based DRM deactivated itself due to continuous piracy.

[rhegedus]

you can sleep soundly knowing that the geek down the block is back at Walmart buying another piece of equipment after the network based DRM deactivated itself due to continuous piracy.

I personally feel that nothing is secure. I believe if it can be viewed, it can be copied, plain and simple.

If it can be copied then DRM would already have been bypassed. The geek will be in Walmart buying chips and dips to eat while watching his free movie.

This also assumes that telephone/internet services are 24/7..... Someone who rightly owns the legitimate media and equipment could be prohibited from enjoying them just because some jackass with a jackhammer cut through the cable while digging up the road.

[ozymango]

It's not up to the consumer to decide how much a company wishes to charge people in each region to view their content. It's also not up to the consumer to decide whether a company decides to not release their content within a certain region.

Uh, actually, it sorta is, at least in the USA -- it's called "free-market capitalism." This is where the customer ("consumer") shows, with his or her pocketbook, that they will or won't purchase certain items at certain prices because they do or don't want whatever it is they're being sold.

I live in the USA, so I vote (capitalistically) with my pocketbook when companies do things I do or don't like. True, it's not specifically my own personal buying decisions that mean anything to a company trying to sell me stuff, but you get enough people wanting or not wanting something, and many good companies start paying attention to the bottom line.

To some companies, that means, "People aren't buying our stuff so it must mean it's being pirated so our goal is to make it harder for people to copy stuff. This will bring us more profits." This is one way of looking at things, and I don't think it's unreasonable -- but I don't think it's the best way for a company to generate the most profit. Another company might go, "We've found that we make X $$$ off each sale of a DVD or program broacast, and while some people are copying and trading shows illegally, the global increase in interest in our product, our legitimate product, has also increased greatly. Therefore, while we certainly don't condone piracy, we've found it's more profitable over X time to focus our dollars on our production of better-quality legitimate product, as this increases customer satisfaction and also -- importantly -- increases our revenues."

Those are just examples, and they're not meant to show a "right" or "wrong" point of view, just that there can be complex systemic interactions in a supply-and-demand economy.

[waheed]

No. You are forced to watch movies legally supported and purchased for your home viewing entertainment.

Not really. DRM has nothing to do with watching movies legally. Its only to prevent copying and playback. As stated, DRM has been cracked so people can watch DRM-less movies without the hassle of internet authentication.

Region Coding is only one prevention of piracy.

Incorrect. Region coding has nothing to do with prevention of piracy. Its all to do with controlling the market. Studios decide when movies are released in certain regions and what price to charge in certain regions. Hence, maximising profits.

No copy protection, be it DRM, CPRM, CSS, HDCP etc.. is 100% secure and will be cracked or has been cracked. Im not worried about DRM or HDCP. Just need to wait a while for a workaround.

[BJ_M]

it was mentioned here the HDCP "workaround" , which was the hdmi cable to component ....

there were a few of these advertised before - now i can not find one .. if anyone has a link , please send me the link were i can buy them ...

[waheed]

it was mentioned here the HDCP "workaround" , which was the hdmi cable to component ....

there were a few of these advertised before - now i can not find one .. if anyone has a link , please send me the link were i can buy them ...

HDCP is only a minor part of the issue. Its possible the upcoming HD-DVD and Blu Ray will use on line authentication (like DRM) in order to view the movie.

[RottenFoxBreath]

lol i could see that going down a storm in the uk,what with people pissed off already with teh sky box linked into the phone line,and then this.

[ROF]

it was mentioned here the HDCP "workaround" , which was the hdmi cable to component ....

I don't ever remember seeing any that will convert to analog component. There are several manufacturers of DVI/VGA HDCP Supported Boxes, but nothing that would drastically reduce the visual quality in order to support component video television. If someone knows of a link to one, I'd be interested in knowing for future reference.

[ROF]

Correction. You have a legit copy being played in an illegitimate manner(wrong region). In this case, DRM is supporting the corporations rights to localize where a copy is playable.

DRM is supporting how to control the market. Thats all. Corporations can charge more people in one region than another.

Somehow that's a bad thing? I thought that was referred to as the business of doing business. I don't know or can name a single product that isn't priced differently depending upon where it's sold on the planet. Corporations have a right to make money. They also have a right to charge whatever they feel is cost effective in the region it's being sold. Businesses are in the business of doing business for one purpose: To make money.

[rhegedus]

lol i could see that going down a storm in the uk,what with people pissed off already with teh sky box linked into the phone line,and then this.

Simple answer - unplug the Sky box.

It still works........