Multi-stream Video Editor required - any suggestions?

[Richard_G]

My video projects are all shot with three cameras from different angles. I've been using Ulead Mediastudio Pro since version 5 and sync the three streams on the timeline and then cut from one stream to the other. This works perfectly except for the time it takes. I have to watch each stream separately, decide which angle is the best at any given time and then go back and select the exact point where I cut to that shot. On a 3 hour project, that's 9 hours of just watching the shots, before I get anywhere near to editing!

Although I like Ulead, I was thinking that maybe there is something out there that would make life easier. Rather than a timeline based system, I was thinking of something more along the lines of a live production suite. What I had in mind was something that will display, simultaneously, all of the streams and allow me to select which stream becomes the final output. In much the same way as a producer for live TV has monitors showing the footage from all of the cameras and simply selects which shot he wants to go out on air.

It would need to have a timeline as well, including the facility to display the audio track as a waveform (I use the audio waveform to sync the 3 streams with each other). Anyone know of any software that can do this? Before anyone starts saying that it can be done but the software costs a fortune, I don't mind. Time is money as they say and if I can even halve the time taken to do the editing, I can double the number of projects (and hence double the income) I can take on.

[lordsmurf]

Would require too much RAM/CPU.
Nothing like this exists aside from specialty hardware.

[Cornucopia]

AVIDs can do this without any additional hardware (although that always helps). It's called "Multi-camera". IIRC, other apps can do it to (Vegas?, PremierePro?)

Scott

[Richard_G]

If I need more RAM, it isn't a problem, if I need a faster CPU, it sin't a problem, if I need speciality hardware it still isn't too much of a problem (it all depends on how long it will take me to recoup the cost of it).

Cornucopia, I'm 99% certain PremierePro can't do it and can't find any reference to it on the Vegas website. As you say, Avid may be able to do it, but the website gives very little information on what it can and can't do (not even decent screenshots) when you look at how much they are expecting you to spend Avid Xpress DV isn't that expensive although it can only handle DV. That wouldn't be a problem as all my projects are shot on DV and transferred to the pc over Firewire anyway.

Any Avid users out there that can tell me if it can do it?

[Cornucopia]

I'm an AVID user. I'm telling you I can do it.

Scott

[Richard_G]

Just to confirm before I get the credit card out. If I have three video streams synced up on the timeline, I will be able to play them all simultaneously and in sync? Will I then be able to click on one or another and send that to the final output? Basically I want to be able to edit between the three shots in real time.

[Cornucopia]

Here's a demo page with (SWF?) animation about real-time multi-cam...

http://www.avid.com/video/xpressDemos/index.asp?currVideo=3

Sounds like what you want, but you decide...

BTW, FinalCutPro 5 also does multicam.

Scott

[liquid217]

I do this frequently in vegas 3. The FPS is rather slow (about 10-12fps), but I am able to make my editing decisions in realtime. Below is a tutorial that basically summarises how it is done in vegas.

http://www.martyhedler.com/homepage/Vegas_Tutorials.html (click on multicam on top)

[aanaravs]

Vegas (with the multi-cam pugin), Premiere Pro (with the multi-cam plugin) and Avid can all do this without a problem at all. Have done it with 9-12 camera shoots without a single problem. And NO, you do not require a faster processor (although, it does help). But, if you have enough memory, you will be fine.

[dipstick]

You should be able to do it easy enough in Premiere Pro with no plugins or anything.

1)Simply add a new Sequence. Call it Preview Sequence.
2)In that Sequence, import all 3 video angles and sync them. You can Copy & Paste to make it easier.
3)Resize them so that all can be viewed in the Preview Window at the same time.

Now when you scrub the Preview Sequence, all camera angles will be viewed at the same time. Pick witch one you like and switch back to your main Sequence to edit.

[dipstick]

The layout ends up looking something like this:


It's pretty easy to do, really. And you should be able to do it with other NLEs that support PIP.

[Richard_G]

Thanks for all the replies. You've all just stopped me from spending a lot of money!

The Avid demo looks horrendously complicated and I'm still not sure how I'd do what I want to do. It talks about stopping the playback and adjusting clip lengths. I don't want to stop, I wanted to do it while it's playing in real time. The other downside is nearly £400 and no demo available to try before I buy.

The link to the Vegas tutorial was the most helpful. It shows how it can be done but not quite in the way I was thinking of, but done nonetheless. The same goes for the suggestion of doing it in Premiere Pro. Both these are using a similar method.

Both the above methods don't run the three streams in separate windows but by overlaying the streams in the one window. I then realised that I can do just that with the software I already use!

Apply Picture in Picture moving paths to the 3 streams and preview the video. MediaStudio Pro can preview in real time in a window on the computer monitor but also in full screen on a dual head device. As I always preview using a TV as a second full screen monitor, that doesn't matter and it works perfectly! MediaStudio Pro won't let me cut streams during preview, but it will let me insert a cue marker. All I then need to do is go back, remove the PiP moving path and cut at these markers.

Thanks to all that replied, it seems I already had the software to do the job, I'd just not though of using it that way.

[dipstick]

I figured you might be able to do it with Media Studio Pro, but it's been years since I've used it.

Sometimes we just need to think outside of the box to get things done.

Glad you got it to work.

[Cornucopia]

Thanks for all the replies. You've all just stopped me from spending a lot of money!

The Avid demo looks horrendously complicated and I'm still not sure how I'd do what I want to do. It talks about stopping the playback and adjusting clip lengths. I don't want to stop, I wanted to do it while it's playing in real time. The other downside is nearly £400 and no demo available to try before I buy.

The link to the Vegas tutorial was the most helpful. It shows how it can be done but not quite in the way I was thinking of, but done nonetheless. The same goes for the suggestion of doing it in Premiere Pro. Both these are using a similar method.

Both the above methods don't run the three streams in separate windows but by overlaying the streams in the one window. I then realised that I can do just that with the software I already use!

Apply Picture in Picture moving paths to the 3 streams and preview the video. MediaStudio Pro can preview in real time in a window on the computer monitor but also in full screen on a dual head device. As I always preview using a TV as a second full screen monitor, that doesn't matter and it works perfectly! MediaStudio Pro won't let me cut streams during preview, but it will let me insert a cue marker. All I then need to do is go back, remove the PiP moving path and cut at these markers.

Thanks to all that replied, it seems I already had the software to do the job, I'd just not though of using it that way.

With the AVID, the part about stopping playback/clip lengths was, IIRC, after having done the 1st cut if you wanted to make adjustments. The 1st time through (after having ganged the clips together as a "multi-cam clip ahead of time--that's what that bin action was all about), you just do cam1-take-click, cam2-take-click, etc. This is slightly more "real-time" than the other ways--when it comes down to the actual cutting--but all of those apps can do something (PIP, whatever) like what you want.

Scott

[jtoolman2000]

I'm 99% certain PremierePro can't do it

Sure it can. I shoot three camera angles and begin each multi angle shot with a clapper for visual and audio synch. Lay my three clips on video track one two an three. Anlign them so the clapper is perfect on all three and begin to edit.

You can do the same thing in Vegas maybe even easier.

[Richard_G]

jtoolman2000, I think you missed what I was after. I do exactly the same in Mediastudio Pro as you are doing in Premiere. Sync up the three separate clips on the timeline and start to edit.

To make the editing simpler, and considerably faster, what I wanted to be able to do was then simultaneously play all three clips, in separate preview windows, in real time and simply select which clip I wanted to become the final output. I had in mind something that automatically created a fourth stream depending on which of the three input streams I had selected rather than having to preview each shot in turn, decide which shot I want to use before editing to get rid of the other two.

[BJ_M]

it is very easy to do in Vegas ..

with Vegas plus Ultimate S -- it makes it even easier ...


* Real-time switching of cameras
* Cameras may be synced in any order, and resynced at ANY time.
* Never locked into naming tracks
* Split audio for interviews in one click. (Up to 8 channels (vegas supports unlimted audio channels on top of this))
* Auto-update a tally
* Camera cuts may be saved and recalled
* Cut or Dissolve/Crossfade automatically
* Preview switching without delay before assembly
* Instantly set up multicam projects
* Tally indicators for PAL, NTSC, and HD
* Immediate Tally update when you change any switching function, or even choose a different camera track!
* Create your own Tally indicator or use one of several provided


http://vasst.com/product.aspx?id=c8cec3c4-7ec3-43db-8d32-f703f5050400