Legality question

[mrtristan]

I have question about the legality of backups, before I discuss them any further. Is it legal for me to take a backup copy of a DVD that I legally purchased to work and watch it there? Also, is it legal to view the backup, if the original DVD becomes unreadable, considering I still have it in my possesion? Finally, is it legal to allow someone to borrow the copy, for the sole purpose of viewing the movie?

[MackemX]

I have question about the legality of backups, before I discuss them any further. Is it legal for me to take a backup copy of a DVD that I legally purchased to work and watch it there? Yes but take the original with you Also, is it legal to view the backup, if the original DVD becomes unreadable, considering I still have it in my possesion? Yes as long as the original is with you Finally, is it legal to allow someone to borrow the copy, for the sole purpose of viewing the movie?not really sure as it's 'your' backup but if it is then you give them the original also

get the idea? the original sticks with the backup

p.s. I haven't a clue really but I thought I'd be the first to reply

[mrtristan]

Dum dum dum... And the plot thickens.

It doesn't really bother me, per se. As long as I know I have a legal copy, it doesn't weigh on my conscience. I'm asking more for clarification, when I ask questions about encoding/decoding.

The rules here are very tight, and for good reason. If people started discussing how to rip and burn cds/dvds for illegal purposes, this forum would turn into a target for anti piracy groups. I definitely don't want that to happen, as I've learned a lot about video in my time here.

I usually encode footage from my dv cam, but I do rip a dvd occasionally. I just want to make sure that the next time I post a topic, it's not in breach of the forum rules. I could lie or be ambiguous, but I like to be a little more in depth with my posts. Sometimes someone can offer a solution that works, but isn't in line with what I was thinking.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

Federal Law gives me the right to make a back-up copy of any/all media software that I have obtained via legitimate means (laid the out the cold hard cash that is)....
but what you can and can't do has become so convoluted over the past few years!
Apparently, when you buy a DVD of a movie or a CD of Windows XP, you are purchasing a limited license to use the software within.
I still don't understand exactly what the limits are, but frankly, I don't care - CD's and DVD's are relatively fragile and quite easy to scratch and therefore ruin. I have made a back-up of probably 75% of the DVD's, music CD's, software CD's, and even VHS movies that I have bought. Some back-ups are to DVD, some to CD, and some to my hard drive.
I don't give away or even sell copies of any of it, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm doing no harm, I have retained the original CD/DVD/VHS for every back-up that I've made. I'm not worried about 'getting busted' since I'm not doing anything wrong.
If I am wrong in keeping this stuff on my hard drive, I have no problem with burning it to disc....

I'm no lawyer tho...
Maybe I am breaking the law, but I stand by my original statement - CD's and DVD's are too fragile. I'm not gonna spend the money to buy a movie twice just because it's storage medium is 'sensitive'.

[adam]

Xylob whether backing up a CD or DVD is legal depends on the country you live in. If we are talking the US here, then you are inded wrong.

Federal law makes no such exception for backing up DVDs, though it does make one for musical recordings (CDs) and pc software generally. Backing up a DVD is currently a copyright violation in the US. So there's your answer mrtristan since you are in Hawaii.

But since this is an international forum, and doesn't follow any specific country's laws for that matter, we are operating under the assumption that backing up of any kind is generally ok. So applying general archival copying principles I think it can be said for sure that you must destroy your backup if the original becomes lost, destroyed, or damaged beyond use. This is pretty much a limitation of every law that grants an archival right. Such laws also almost universally restrict the copying to personal use. So I think that bringing the copy to work would qualify and be fine but loaning a copy to friends wouldn't since archival rights are generally limited to the actual owner. But again, these are legal concepts and this board probably takes a much more leniant approach. I don't think you'd get called out for discussing/admitting any of the things you are asking about mrtristan.

The truth is that few countries with copyright law allow you to make archival copies of movies. The only countries I know of are Canada and Sweden.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

I'm in the US, but you're saying that making a back-up of my legally purchased DVD's is illegal.
If so, then why is it legal to create, sell, and purchase software that is specifically designed to break those copyright laws?
I can drive to my local CompUSA right now and choose from a variety of software that is designed for only one purpose: backing up my DVD's.

Then again, handguns are designed specifically for only one purpose too - killing people. And I can go get one of those quite easily too...

now, before all you gun nuts and NRA members start slamming me, think about it. handguns really are designed for killing people. they are not accurate enough at long range to hunt with. I have owned a large number of firearms in my time and could easily be lumped into the category of 'gun nut'. I'm simply stating a fact here, not pushing ppl's buttons.

[MackemX]

If so, then why is it legal to create, sell, and purchase software that is specifically designed to break those copyright laws?

breaking the CSS is illegal and I doubt very much any will do that . I f any shop is selling software that does then they are breaking the law I guess

I'm probably wrong but it's illegal to even own (maybe just use) the CSS breaking software now in some countries or something isn't it?

[adam]

There is nothing inherantly infringing about backing up any type of media, it is the content on it that limits what you can do with it. DVD backup software is legal because it can be used to backup DVDs containing non-copyrighted material, or material that you are authorized to copy. Incidentally, such software is useless for backing up most commercial DVDs because they lack the ability to bypass the CSS encryption as MackemX stated. Also 3rd party manufacturers of hardware/software are held to a different standard than their consumers. Their products merely have to have a "substantially non-infringing purpose" even if their primary purpose is to provide a means to make unauthorized copies, but like I said I don't think this applies to DVD backup software anyway.

But to backup a DVD containing copyrighted material is an infringement in the US no matter how you do it since it is an unauthorized copy and Title 17 makes no exception for personal use copying of audio visual works.

[mrtristan]

Crap, so it's not covered by 'fair use,' then? My son has a bunch of Thomas DVDs and I'm trying to teach him how to handle them properly, but he's 2. Sometimes they get scratched up, so I was thinking of making copies of his favorite ones to watch, while keeping the originals on the shelf. If it is, indeed, illegal, that answers all of my questions.

Just out of curiosity, assuming I was in a country where making a backup of a commercial DVD is legal, how does that affect the other two scenarios?

[adam]

Hmm, didn't I answer that in my first post?

1) watching at work is personal use so probably ok.
2) lending to friend is probably not ok since personal backup rights are strictly construed...cannot be extended to anyone else.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

doody

[glockjs]

no. you are going to federal pound me in the ass jail.


actually im not 100% sure i just really really wanted to say that. but knowing how the law works...theres gotta be a loop hole or 2