Why hasn't DivX really made it big?

[TooLFooL]

what's the deal? Divx seems so much better than Mpeg. so much smaller, yet quality doesn't seem to suffer - or does it?
DivX HD content looks very promising too. i don't understand why it's not as mainstream as mp3? seems like it should be?

[vitualis]

It depends on what you mean by "big".

In a way, it has made it big. After all, a fair proportion of DVD players out now are compatible with DivX and this is with absolutely no support from Hollywood (insofar as content released as DivX clips).

Furthermore, the successor to DVD (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) both use MPEG-4 type compression for video content though it won't be "DivX" per se.

Regards.

[TooLFooL]

by big i guess i mean as mainstream and widely accepted as mp3. (it would make all this DVD9 to DVD5 crap a whole lot easier!) guess maybe someday it will gain more hardware support, i think it should.

[wwjd]

Maybe outside the US DivX has made it big but here in the US it has not. There are only a handful of DivX players around and almost nothing in terms of direct hardware encoding to Divx.

For me it simply takes too much time to convert to DivX. If I could record directly to DivX and had a good selection of DivX players and or Network players, like the AVeL Linkplayer2 to choose from, then I would probably be a big user of DivX.

At the moment, DivX in the US is a waste of time and effort.

[DRP]

by big i guess i mean as mainstream and widely accepted as mp3. (it would make all this DVD9 to DVD5 crap a whole lot easier!) guess maybe someday it will gain more hardware support, i think it should.

It has made it as big as MP3 imho. MP3 is the quasi default format for digital music but others still exist as well. The same can be said of DivX/XviD. Look around at any p2p site with BT or ed2k links for video files and I guarantee at least 95% of them will be XviD or DivX.

There are hardware players available which can play MP3 files. The same is true of DivX/XviD. I really don't know what else you can expect of DivX/XviD to prove its worth.

[yoda313]

Actually divx also made other big inroads. If you look at the LORD OF THE RINGS video games they use DIVX for their video sequences. So does ENTER THE MATRIX.

I'm sure there are many other video games that compress their live action video sequences with divx as well.

Just because they don't have big campaigns and billboards blasting their name doesn't mean they haven't made an impact.

[wwjd]

I think the HOPE is that DivX will be like mp3 but in the US that is simply not the case. Main stream movies, legal downloads, not p2p, simply do not
exist.

[yoda313]

I think the HOPE is that DivX will be like mp3 but in the US that is simply not the case. Main stream movies, legal downloads, not p2p, simply do not
exist.

Besides they'd be DRM capable files like WMV that can be controlled by the distributers. DIVX/XVID is totally open and can be read by anyone. Any legal downloader would have to put restrictions on it.

[junkmalle]

MPEG4 is one of the official codecs for HD DVD.

[TooLFooL]

well DRM capable is fine, as is mp3, but nowdays, practically EVERYTHING plays mp3. new car radios, dvd players, walkmans, cell phones, etc., etc. but this simply is not the case with divx. and as wwjd said, i hope someday that will be the case, i think they're great. but there are very few handware devices that really seem to support it right now.

[edDV]

DivX is a sideshow amateur format.

The DVD future is MPeg2 (SD and HD) as primary format and the MPeg4 winners for higher compression are H.264 and VC-1 (Microsoft's licensed version of WMV).

These formats will be officially supported by Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. DivX, Xvid, NeroDigital, etc. will be increasingly supported by DVD player manufacturers but they are not required to do so.

[TooLFooL]

well it's an impressive one!...

[Stormin Norman]

That it is TooLFooL, but as everything else, it will eventually become obsolete. What edDV said.

[RDS1955]

I look at it this way...........

If DivX/Xvid are the only formats required for Videohelp.com's Short Video contest, and this place is so popular, then IMHO, it WILL become the media format of all reckoning and the Universe..IMHO of course...that being what it's worth....... 8)

PARANOID?!?! WHO'S PARANOID?!?!

[lordsmurf]

DivX is a sideshow amatuer format. .

That's an excellent desciption.

[celtic_druid]

I don't think ASP MPEG-4 is officially supported in any up comming standards. AVC is, but DivX is ASP, not AVC.

Personally I think this whole DivX as a standard thing doesn't help. avi simply wasn't designed to store advanced stuff like ASP MPEG-4. Much better to use mp4. In mp4 it doesn't matter if the video is DivX, XviD, 3ivX, QuickTime, Nero Digital or whatever. MPEG-4 video is simply MPEG-4 video.

I'd say most people buy DivX players to play downloaded stuff and 99% of that will be XviD anyway since no scene releases use DivX since the SBC days.

[whitejremiah]

Divx does have a rather high potential though....what you guys are failing to see is some of the newer aspects of it, which at the moment arent entirely useable...stuff like eventually you will be able to make menus for your movies, ect.....it already has those things built into it as well as the ability to use multiple audio tracks, subtitles, ect.......its just right now, not much actually makes use of these things...........im sure when its fully unleashed, it will start to gain more hardware support....

[vitualis]

It should be noted that a lot of the arguments that "DivX isn't mainstream" applied equally to MP3 a few years ago...

Even now, the vast majority of studios do not release music as MP3. And it was not so long ago that there were very few hardware MP3 options. Furthermore, hardware MP3 encoding is actually a pretty recent development which, BTW, very few people use. As for software MP3 encoding, it is only in the last few years that we've had so many great options. Again, it was not so long ago the software MP3 encoding was either commercial, illegal/hacked or crap.

As DivX/XviD/MPEG-4 ASP is "open", it will not be supported by the content providers... however, there is now enough demands that even "big name" electronic manufacturers are providing some hardware support. In the nascent market of portable media/video players, a player would not be considered worthwhile without flawless DivX/XviD support, even if its "native" format may be something else (e.g., WMV).

There are better/more efficient encoding schemes than DivX/XviD/MPEG-4 ASP just like there are better/more efficient encoding schemes than MP3 for audio. However, the reason MP3 remains so popular is that it is the de facto "amateur/hobby" standard... and as such, it has great cross-platform compatibility and great hardware support. The equivalent "video" field simply isn't as large and is relatively newer... however, if you were to point out the "de facto amateur/hobby" standard, it would be DivX/XviD/MPEG-4 ASP.

Regards.

[Cole]

There are better/more efficient encoding schemes than DivX/XviD/MPEG-4 ASP just like there are better/more efficient encoding schemes than MP3 for audio. However, the reason MP3 remains so popular is that it is the de facto "amateur/hobby" standard... and as such, it has great cross-platform compatibility and great hardware support. The equivalent "video" field simply isn't as large and is relatively newer... however, if you were to point out the "de facto amateur/hobby" standard, it would be DivX/XviD/MPEG-4 ASP.

IIRC MP3 was completely head and shoulders out on its own as the amateur/hobby format, with very little to challenge it.

However, with video "amateaur/hobby", there are several different formats that people can adapt to and encode at home. All seem to have a fair following. DivX is having to struggle along with many other hobby(able) formats, so it is not so easy to aquire any dominance.

[vitualis]

MP2 was around. As were a number of other proprietary solutions... AAC, e.g., was around long before Apple made it their baby.

But yes, in terms of maturity of software, MP3 was sort of on its own... However, most people I know still convert to MP3 (e.g., from their CDs) rather than WMA or AAC or even Ogg Vorbis despite all these formats being arguably better. I still do because I know that MP3 is "good enough" and will be supported far into the future.

As for video format, apart from MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 which popular video codec (which is actually commonly used) now is not based on MPEG-4 ASP?

Regards.

[celtic_druid]

Well if the goal is transparancy, then it is either transparent or it isn't. So in such a case lame with -V 2/--alt preset standard, etc. is fine. Fact is that aac, mpc, vorbis, etc. can achieve the same transparency at a lower bitrate.

[TooLFooL]

what is it about divx that some people think it's inferior? (i'm not this knowledged yet! some content looks excellent to me).
even so, its like mp3s definetely sound sub-par to me, but they sure are convenient. especially nowdays when everything will play them. divx may not be great, but i see that kind of potential. look at the new PSP - pretty sweet!

[vitualis]

Formats like AAC also allow for DRM which is both a plus (you can buy commercial material) and minus (hamstring your playback options).

Ogg Vorbis allows for gapless playback while MP3 (in general) does not.

As for MP3 sounding "sub-par", that is either because the original encoder used a crap encoder or low bitrate (or both). MP3 can definitely sound transparent to the original at the appropriate bitrate (as per celtic_druid).

Personally, I think that DivX is pretty good, though I prefer XviD myself. It meets a nice balance between compression, quality, playback compatibility and support and encoding time.

Regards.

[junkmalle]

what is it about divx that some people think it's inferior?

I think it's mostly because there's a lot of really badly encoded divx video going around the P2P networks. When someone compresses a 2 hour movie to fit on one CD quality suffers. Divx gets the rap.

[yoda313]

I still do because I know that MP3 is "good enough" and will be supported far into the future.

Good point. Sure you could save everything as a monster wav file but multi gb music players are expensive and way waste the space?? And as you mentioned mp3 will have support for years to come.

The same thing is true with dvd video. Until the next gen war is settled there's no reason for me to abandon dvd mpeg2 yet. Especially since I don't have a hdtv yet. The dvd standard will be around for a LONG time.

[TooLFooL]

so why aren't cd's good enough anymore? everything is going to 'mp3 player'. (why have 1 cd when you can have 10 cd's on 1). that's all i'm saying - if we started seeing 'portable divx' players and such, you could have 3-4 movies on 1 dvd (while maintaining acceptable quality).

[vitualis]

I think that you are somewhat missing the point...

The point of MP3 players is that not only do they allow you to bring a large collection of music, but they more importantly allow you to play a mix of your music easily. To do the same thing with a CD player you will need to bring along a few other CDs and pre-make your own.

The "shuffle" option on MP3 players are extremely important.

We, however, do not quite consume "video" in the same way. We can walk around and do work while listening to music but we can't do these activities while watching a video. Also, the video content we consume are not short like songs but usually longer in either an episode of something or a movie. There is basically only so much you can watch reasonably at any given stretch.

In any case, your comparisons are slightly off. The same reason why MP3 players are so much more popular than portable DivX capable players (which exist) is mostly the same why portable CD players are so much more popular than portable DVD players. There is simply less demand.

Regards.

[the * dude]

humm interseting points....

but i think the main thing is....

mp3 is mp3 & can be played in any mp3 player, & the hardware to do so is cheap as heck.

divx-xvid, codecs keep being updated (not set std like mpg) & the hardware is getting cheap though, but divx 6 jus came out imagin how pissed i would be if i just a player & everyone started encoding in divx6????

imho,, the hardware should be upgradeable maybe than it will get accepted... (if you cant settle on a standard), also meus & subs would be good!!!

[the * dude]

cheap as heck i'm talking about the chips....
before some one say they got a £300, mp3 player!!

[celtic_druid]

DivX and XviD are ASP MPEG-4 codecs. DivX 5.x was and DivX 6 still is, nothing has changed.

Can't really speak for DXN, but XviD will always be ASP MPEG-4, so as long as a current decoder is compliant, it will playback all future XviD encodes. Problem is that none of the current decoders are compliant and I guess DXN is somewhat to thank for that since they created their own certification programme where you don't need to comply to MPEG-4 standards.