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  1. Member
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    If I inadvertly broke a rule by inquiring about how Moivelink encodes/encyrpts it's downloads, I'm sorry. It was just out pure curiosity, not an attempt ot bypass the posting rules. Since the question has been deemed inappropiate for the forums, and, locked becuase of that, I'll offically drop the question. (besides, from what Movielink claims, it probably wouldn't work anyway, so why bother.)
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  2. You said you "Downloaded" your Back ups.
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    Yes, and, I also put back up in quotes. But the whole thing is mute anyway, since from what I read in the rules questions about "backups" made from rentals, in any form, is an inappropiate topic.
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  4. Banned
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    Originally Posted by agent222
    Yes, and, I also put back up in quotes. But the whole thing is mute anyway, since from what I read in the rules questions about "backups" made from rentals, in any form, is an inappropiate topic.
    umm . . yeah . . . it's theft and punishable by up to $250,000 and/or jail time.
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    As intrepreted by the MPAA. But let's drop it. The orginal question in either area is apparantly inappropiate for the forum, and, therefore mute. (I suggested the moderator allow one, or, two appropiate replies from themselves, or, others. then rule this closed.)
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  6. moot
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  7. Banned
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    Originally Posted by agent222
    As intrepreted by the MPAA.
    MPAA does impersonations not interpretations. Last time I checked, it wasn't the MPAA listed on the green warning screens on rental/purchased DVDs.
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  8. Member
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    Thank you to dphirschler for correcting my spelling. Moot is the word I was trying to use. Ruler in exile; the MPAA, the Studios, the RIAA, and, the music recording companies are the ones behind the DMCA, the act that legally excluded DVDs from the "Betamax" decison, and, so are the ones that will "sic" the FBI on you if they discover you are a "major" abuser of the DMCA.
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  9. There is a huge difference between an obstruction to making copies of DVDs that you legally own, and the very clear Federal Law against stealing someone else's property.

    Condoning and/or asisting theft could get this board shut down, its operator imprisoned or fined, and annoy a whole bunch of people.
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  10. Banned
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    Originally Posted by Nelson37
    There is a huge difference between an obstruction to making copies of DVDs that you legally own, and the very clear Federal Law against stealing someone else's property.
    Read the DMCA sometime. There is no difference. Both are illegal, there are just some who like to pretend to be judges and interpret the law to their own liking or how they see it. There was a time way back when that making personal copies for your own private use was deemed legal. This is no longer valid as there are now laws that supercede those ancient laws of the 70's.

    Agent 222: The MPAA and RIAA are only protecting their investment and the end consumer by bringing prosecution to those who violate the law or contribute to helping those to violate the law. How they do it sometimes is what is troublesome.
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    I, among many others, do not like the way the DCMA was written, especially the way it precludes personal copying of DVDs, as is allowed by the Betamax decision.
    However, I do not support wholesale, commercial piracy, those who purchase those commercial disc copiers just to produce copies for their own gain. Those are the ones who the MPAA, and, RIAA should focus on.
    This list, IN GENERAL TERMS, is about how to make "one off" copies for personal use, as was allowed in the "Betamax decison." That being said, since I belong to this list, occasionally ask questions here, it is obvious I support the by-laws (rules) set for this list. My orginal question was about file methodology for Movielink. I found out it was "out-of-bounds" for this list. I apologized. In responding to comments resulting from my apology, this has turned into a running battle on the DMCA. I don't know about this list's publisher (moderator,) but unless someone has a new point to make about the DMCA, I feel this topic is closed. If you support changes to the DMCA, I suggest you join the Electronic Freedoms Frontier group. They have organized in the past an on line petition opposing the DMCA, and, continue to try to keep computing in general, and, the internet specifically, as free from unreasonable gevernement interference as possible.
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    I do not like the law that says I can not drop off my vehicle each day and demand another at gunpoint from the car dealership, but guess what? I have to suffer the consequences if I were to violate those laws. I could lobby to have the law changed but it was put into place in order to protect the end consumer, the manufacturer, and the dealership. The DMCA is written similiarly. It protects everybody involved. Anything less would be tantamount to support of criminal behavior.
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  13. I have read it.

    There is a legitimate question whether the "Fair Use" exemption does, or does not, cover personal backups of legally owned DVD's. SFAIK, it is the policy of this board, and its ownership, that it does. There is also significant question of whether enforcement would be attempted in such a case.

    No one will know for sure until such a case comes before a court, and even then until all appeals are finished.

    There is no question whatsoever when "backups" of rental DVD's are made. There is also no question that such actions are a much greater target for enforcement activities.
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    Ruler;
    I'm responding only because I feel, I must. The Supreme Court of this land, in the "Betamax" decision, upheld the right of "one offing" media that you legally hold for personal use. Congress, under lobbying by the MPAA, and, others, removed that right under the DMCA. You seem to equate "one offing" with buying a movie, copying, and, trying to return it for refund. Unless the movie is defective in some way, I don't support that. That would be cheating both the Studios, and, Retailers. What you describe is akin to 'carjacking" a violent crime.
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    While I did exaggerate the point my crime would be no less valid then the one being discussed here. Actually, and I find this disturbing, my punishment would be less severe then the violation being discussed.

    The rulling you point to in 1976 is valid, but the DMCA of 1998 adds two provisions to Title 17. I had to read the short DMCA to find this, but in Title I of the DMCA two new prohibitions have been added to account for circumvention of technological measures used by copyright owners to protect their works and also one to prevent tampering with copyright management information. There are also new civil rememdies and additional criminal penalties should you choose to violate those prohibitions.

    Any DVD you purchase commericially has a copy protection method attached to it. Circumventing that copy protection is a violation of Title 17 of the copyright code. For those outside the US, you might fall under World Intellectual Property Organization treaties. In either case, making copies and thus circumvention of copyright is a violation of the law and punishable by up to $500,000.00 or up to five years imprisonment for the first offense. This penalty doubles for each additional offense. What's interesting is according to the law as written, if you let's say for example, copy 10 movies and are caught, you can be found guilty of 10 offenses and thus subject to a Multi-Million Dollar fine and possible 95 years in jail, all because you don't agree with the DMCA and got caught violating the law.

    Is it worth it?
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  16. Member adam's Avatar
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    agent222, regarding your locked post..case is closed and all is forgiven. But I do take issue with some of your reasoning, even though it is moot as you say.

    The Betamax ruling did not give you the right to make backups of media. The ruling only did two things...it said that you can timeshift meaning you can record over the air broadcasts for a single viewing at a later date, and it said that 3rd party manufacturers of hardware cannot be held liable if their products are used in infringing ways so long as that hardware has a substantially non-infringing purpose. Here is the full text of the ruling, you can see that it has nothing to do with backing up media only with recording OTA broadcasts.

    http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/betamax/betamax_supreme_ct.pdf

    The DMCA had absolutely no legal effect on the Betamax ruling. It didn't change your rights to time-shift which is the only consumer right that the ruling granted.

    There has never been any law in the United States that gives you a right to backup media generally. That is why our Congress has created specific backup laws for specific types of media. We have one for musical recordings and we have one for computer software. There is currently no such backup right for motion pictures. At this point in time there is no legal right to backup a DVD you own in the US, and as I'm sure we would all agree, you cannot copy a rented DVD in any county with copyright laws.

    Luckily this site is visited by people all over the world some of whom live in countries where backing up a DVD is legal...thus I don't think there is any harm in discussing the practice.

    ROF civil copyright violations are generally punishable by up to $5,000 per infringement and yes each sale would constitute a separate infringment. Criminal copyright infringement is punishable by up to 5 years in prison or $250,000 but this is total for all infringements. The absolute most jail time you could do would be 5 years and the highest fine would be $250K. Still not worth it.
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    Originally Posted by adam

    Luckily this site is visited by people all over the world some of whom live in countries where backing up a DVD is legal...thus I don't think there is any harm in discussing the practice.

    ROF civil copyright violations are generally punishable by up to $5,000 per infringement and yes each sale would constitute a separate infringment. Criminal copyright infringement is punishable by up to 5 years in prison or $250,000 but this is total for all infringements. The absolute most jail time you could do would be 5 years and the highest fine would be $250K. Still not worth it.
    5 years is for each offense, $250K is max fine for each offense. Each recording or movie studio could become a claim against you thus increasing your offenses and your fines exponentially, all because you want to preserve your movie and watch it over and over on backed up media. It may sound hard line, but it's the law. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it, I actually see it from both viewpoints which makes it much easier for me to decide that I don't want to be involved in any lawsuit of this nature and will avoid it by not breaking the law. There are countries where it isn't a violation of the law. Hopefully that will change so as to protect both the consumer and the author.
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  18. Member adam's Avatar
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    Yes but my point is that each infringement does not count as an offense like with civil copyright infringement where statutory damages are accessed for every DVD you copy, or every DVD you sell. You can run a store where you sell hundreds of thousands of pirated DVDs of movies released by every major studio, and do so over a period of 10 years and that's still going to be just one count of criminal copyright infringement. Take a look at the guys who have really gone down for this stuff, the ones who got caught with thousands of DVDs worth up to $750,000 worth. They got the book thrown at them but it still just one count of criminal infringement. Its in the civil suit that they have to pay all the money back.
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    Adam;

    I guess in reference to the "betamax" decision I was thinking of a commonly held belief. As for the DMCA thank you for closing the debate. We all have our beliefs, which may, or, may not be right. (According to present US law.)

    As I said earlier, the best place to take one's fight against the provision's of the DMCA is the Electronic Frontier Freedoms site.

    If you agree the provisons of the DMCA, write your congressional representaives and tell them.

    Thanks to all for their comments, and, information.
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  20. Disgustipated TooLFooL's Avatar
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    agent222:
    the answer to your question is movielink movies come with a licence that will expire and therefore never play again no matter what you do, unless you can crack microsoft's licencing code.

    now people please, stop this foolishness!
    I am just a worthless liar,
    I am just an imbecil
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    TomFool
    Thanks for the info, but decided long ago that since the topic was ruled out bounds, the hassle wasn;t worth it.
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