VideoHelp Forum

Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors. Consider supporting us by disable your adblocker or Try ConvertXtoDVD and convert all your movies to DVD. Free trial ! :)
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4
1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 114
Thread
  1. To make it easier to access the tests for a particular recorder, this table of contents was created to allow the user to go directly to any recorder of interest by clicking the links below.

    Adaptec AVC2200 USB2 tests -- trhouse, 09-28-05
    JVC DR-M10S tests -- trhouse, 07-23-06
    LG RC797T tests -- trhouse, 05-13-07
    Lite-On LVW-5007 tests -- gshelley61, 09-18-05
    Panasonic DMR-EH55S tests -- trhouse, 03-25-07

    Panasonic DMR-ES10 tests -- trhouse, 03-29-05
    Panasonic DMR-ES20 tests -- gshelley61, 12-17-05
    Panasonic DMR-ES35V tests -- trhouse, 03-23-06
    Panasonic DMR EZ37V tests -- trhouse, 06-17-07
    Pioneer DVR 320 ( 220 with DV input ) tests -- gshelley61, 09-18-05

    Pioneer DVR 531H tests -- trhouse, 09-15-05
    Pioneer DVR 531H tests, range of input adjustments -- trhouse, 09-18-05
    Polaroid DRM-2001G tests -- trhouse, 07-25-06
    Polaroid DRM-2001G tests -- vhelp, 07-22-06
    RCA DRC8030N tests -- trhouse, 02-11-07

    Sony RDR GX315 tests -- trhouse, 03-14-06
    Sony RDR HX900 tests -- gshelley61, 09-29-05
    Toshiba DR4 tests -- gshelley61, 09-23-05

    DV in versus s-video analog in for Pioneer 533H, JVC M10S, Lite-On LVW5006 -- gshelley61, 09-17-05
    Pioneer DVR 320 DV input tests -- gshelley61, 09-24-05


    LG RC797T photos -- trhouse, 05-13-07
    Panasonic DMR EH55S photos -- trhouse, 03-25-07
    Panasonic DMR ES35V photos -- trhouse, 03-23-06
    Panasonic DMR EZ47V photos and temperature tests -- trhouse, 02-07-08 NEW
    Pioneer 420 photos -- trhouse, 10-24-05
    Pioneer 531 photos -- trhouse, 09-16-05
    Polaroid DRM-2001G photos -- trhouse, 07-25-06
    RCA DRC8030N photos -- trhouse, 02-15-07
    Sony RDR GX315 photos -- trhouse, 03-13-06


    Pioneer DVR-531H tests. These tests were done as follows,

    Test patterns: THX file from "ICE AGE" video.
    Source player: Panasonic DMR-ES10
    DVR-531H-S connections and settings: The DMR-ES10 composite output was sent to the DVR-531H-S L2 input with LDP video default settings.

    All test images were recorded to the hard drive first, then a copy list created to copy all to a TDK X2, dvd-rw. High speed copy mode was used except for the captures in XP+ mode which were copied in real time to SP.

    The still images were extracted with VirtualDubMod in png format, resized so all images appear as 640 by 480, and then converted to jpg format with an 85% quality setting. Original images were 720 by 480 or for LP captures 352 by 480.

    Image 1, THX original contrast


    Image 1, DVR-531H XP mode contrast


    Image 1, DVR-531H SP mode contrast


    Image 1, DVR-531H LP mode contrast


    Image 2, THX original black level


    Image 2, DVR-531H XP mode black level


    Image 2, DVR-531H SP mode black level


    Image 2, DVR-531H LP mode black level


    Image 3, THX original multipurpose test pattern


    Image 3, DVR-531H XP mode multipurpose test pattern


    Image 3, DVR-531H SP mode multipurpose test pattern


    Image 3, DVR-531H LP mode multipurpose test pattern


    Image 3, DVR-531H XP+ to SP mode multipurpose test pattern


    Image 4, ICE AGE test clip from original THX test disk


    Image 4, DVR-531H ICE AGE test clip XP mode


    Image 4, DVR-531H ICE AGE test clip SP mode


    Image 4, DVR-531H ICE AGE test clip LP mode


    Image 4, DVR-531H ICE AGE test clip XP plus to SP mode


    It appears that straight SP mode results in better resolution than a XP+ to SP encode but may result in more blocks.[/url][/b][/b][/url[/b]
    Quote Quote  
  2. These images were created as above but with S video instead of composite between the ES10 and 531H.

    XP plus to SP


    XP


    SP


    LP
    Quote Quote  
  3. Member FulciLives's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
    Search Comp PM
    I just got the Pioneer DVR-531H-s only a week ago but so far I am loving it. I also got a comcast DVR unit so between the two I've been recording a lot of crap

    I've only used the XP+ mode once ... did accurate editing ... then recorded to a DVD-RW using the OPTIMISE option. I then imported into my computer and re-authored using TMPGEnc DVD Author burning to a final DVD-R.

    However I have to admit I have been recording SO much that it just takes way to much time to edit so I've been recording everything at the SP speed direct to the HDD ... using the EDITING MODE that is compatable with HIGH SPEED COPY so GOP EDITING only ... I cut the front and end to get it at or under the desired time limit (for instance a 1 hour show ... once you trim the start and end ... is usually just under 1 hour). Then I HIGH SPEED COPY aka BURN to a DVD-RW and re-author on the computer (I like using TMPGEnc DVD Author).

    I know I'm getting less quality this way (lower bitrate) but it's SO much easier. If I had the time I would do everything at XP+ ... do accurate editing ... then burn with the OPTIMISE function ... but it just takes too long.

    One thing that does kinda piss me off ... not the Pioneer's fault ... is that so many of my Comcast digital cable channels (Sci-Fi in particular) have ugly MPEG artifacts. Tis a real shame!

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
    Quote Quote  
  4. "I've only used the XP+ mode once ... did accurate editing ... then recorded to a DVD-RW using the OPTIMISE option"

    Where is the OPTIMISE option? When I place an XP+ capture on the hard drive to the copy list, I can set the recording mode, but have not run across the OPTIMISE option.

    I am disappointed with Comcast as well. The blocks I see sometimes are far worse than anything I have seen any recorder produce.
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member FulciLives's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by trhouse
    "I've only used the XP+ mode once ... did accurate editing ... then recorded to a DVD-RW using the OPTIMISE option"

    Where is the OPTIMISE option? When I place an XP+ capture on the hard drive to the copy list, I can set the recording mode, but have not run across the OPTIMISE option.

    I am disappointed with Comcast as well. The blocks I see sometimes are far worse than anything I have seen any recorder produce.
    Well I think the option was called OPTIMISE ... the idea is it re-encodes to the optimal bitrate to "fit" on the DISC you are COPYING to.

    I need to get to bed (late even for me) but I will look tomorrow unless someone answers by then. I know it was a recording/copying option for HDD to DISC.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
    Quote Quote  
  6. Nice tests, trhouse. I appears to me that there is a bit of image softening going on when doing a re-encode from XP+ to SP. Hmmm... I hadn't noticed a difference from casual observation, but there does seem to some compared to the straight SP recording. I'll have to check that out this weekend.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member Marvingj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Death Valley, Bomb-Bay
    Search Comp PM
    XP Mode looks very Soft & might need adjusted Setup Levels a bit.
    Quote Quote  
  8. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    pancrase
    Search Comp PM
    so my eyes were right after all. I knew those XP+ to optimize disc made an inferior image. but it handles the macroblocks better doing it that way.
    Quote Quote  
  9. Here is something interesting. When the Panasonic DMR-ES10 was tested, I recorded an action sequence from "The Matrix" to create a vob file for upload. If I try to do that with the Pioneer, it says the content is copy protected and will not do it.

    [edit] I will have to check if I ripped a sequence from "The Matrix" before and that is why it worked.
    Quote Quote  
  10. Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Capitol Heights, MD
    Search Comp PM
    For those who have both the Pioneer 531 and the Panasonic ES10, which one have the best quality at both XP and SP modes. Over on the AVS Forum, there's a lot of flip flopping back and forth for both machines. I was wondering what the opinion of everyone on this forum.
    Quote Quote  
  11. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    pancrase
    Search Comp PM
    My eyes never deceive me. The 220 model does produce a cleaner, sharper image.
    Quote Quote  
  12. There has been much speculation about what is inside the DVR-531H. So here it is,

    Overall internal layout. The writer is on the left, the hard drive is center, power supply on the right with a recessed fan.


    The power supply


    The hard drive. Western Digital in this case.


    The writer unit by Pioneer.


    Lithium battery backup on board.


    Tuner


    There are only two large chips internally. Both are made by Pioneer and are located underneath the hard drive. The fan in the lower left corner helps locate the IC in this image.


    In this image, the top is toward the front of the unit. The blue wires and the green pc board at the top of the image are the hard drive removed and resting on the top of the front panel.


    [edit] I happen to agree that the test images look a bit soft. I plan to investigate this further. I did the S-video captures to see if it would decrease the softness but not much.
    Quote Quote  
  13. Member FulciLives's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
    Search Comp PM
    Well remember this is made to capture ANALOG video which is rarely ever going to be the quality of a studio produced DVD so you WANT it to be softer ... as in filtered ... so it looks better and you get less MPEG artifacts like macroblocks.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
    Quote Quote  
  14. It has presets for three analog inputs, tuner, VCR, and LDP ( laser disk player? ) and three settings for your own use. I used LDP for these tests but I noticed it has detailing set to off while it is halfway up for VCR. It might be interesting to try varying this a bit. Are you using the factory presets?
    Quote Quote  
  15. Thanks for the inside photos!
    Quote Quote  
  16. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    pancrase
    Search Comp PM
    what input settings do you guys suggest for digital cable/satellite recording with S-Video?

    I tried tweaking all the filters but see no real difference. it will either make it more blurry or not enhance the image at all. the only filters that make a change are the gamma, chroma, and detail. but that just darkens, lightens, or adds more color to the image, it doesnt really clean up the small mess around the edges. i would like it to look like the 220 model
    Quote Quote  
  17. Always using the custom settings as every tape I do needs adjusting from the previous tape. For my PVR to DVD recordings I usually have one of the customs set and leave it alone as the Video seems to be pretty consistent. Haven't really tried it on DVD to DVD yet. But I'd bet you could get better results using one of the 3 custom settings and playing with detail and noise reduction and maybe black level and white level while viewing the various test patterns you capped.

    Thanks for the view inside the case. Looks like special version of the A09/109 drive and a Western Digital BB model 7200 RPM, 2Mb Cache drive.

    Cheers
    Quote Quote  
  18. These tests are of an action sequence from "The Matrix". The files are vob's ( which can be renamed mpg for viewing with Windows Media Player ).

    The original
    matrixorig1sec.vob

    Still scene from the original


    The straight SP capture
    spmatrix.vob

    Still scene from the SP capture


    The XP plus to SP re-encoded capture
    xpplusspmatrix.vob

    Still scene from the XP plus to SP re-encoded capture


    I do not see much improvement in blocks between straight SP and XP plus to SP. There are blocks left of Morpheus's ear, a 3x3 pattern of blocks to the right of Neo's knee of his extended leg and a horizontal pattern above his belt.

    Strange that the captures look stretched compared to the original. All stills were resized to 640 by 480.
    Quote Quote  
  19. The original image is anamorphic. It would be need to be resized to 853x480 to look right. The DVD recorder captures are 4:3 letterbox (which is how your DVD player was apparently set).

    I think the straight SP capture looks better than the XP+ to SP re-encode, and it is surprisingly clear of macroblocks for such a fast sequence.

    Now that I think about it, the re-encode from XP+ to SP must reduce the average bitrate by what... two-thirds? And it is easy to see (so far) that there is some softening of the original XP+ image after re-encoding occurs. DVD Shrink does the same thing if you apply lots of compression to the original.

    I'll run some tests this weekend, too.
    Quote Quote  
  20. I am looking forward to your results. I have tried a capture of the color bar and resolution image using "Memory 1" instead of a preset. The LDP preset does have some YNR filtering which was removed. Next the YNR filtering was removed and 50% detailing was added but the captured image did not change appreciably. The remaining "Memory 1" settings were unchanged and looked to be the same as the LDP preset.

    While creating the two sequences for upload, I tried to make them both just under the 2 MB limit. I noticed that the "XP plus to SP" sequence uploaded fine but with the straight SP encode, it overflowed, when using the same start/stop frames. I had to shorten the straight SP sequence to upload. That seems to confirm your suspicion that the average bitrate for the "XP plus to SP" sequence is lower.

    I agree the encode is very good either way and the blocks, like JVC M10S blocks, are not that easy to see.
    Quote Quote  
  21. Member vhelp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New York
    Search Comp PM
    Evening everyone.

    Pardon my butting in..

    But, what about just re-encoding the XP (or XP+) encoded MPEG ??
    ..instead of allowing the unit to re-encode.

    -vhelp 3583
    Quote Quote  
  22. Member vhelp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New York
    Search Comp PM
    I don't want to sound picky. Because that is not my intention at all.

    I have been running several analysis with your orginal vob file posted
    above, "matrixorig1sec.vob". I take it its from the dvd recorder unit.

    You did not mention the brand/model/make of the DVD Player you used to
    connect the Pioneer dvd recorder to.

    In my previous experience with my analysis (prev thread topics elsewheres)
    I found and concluded that the best player to use in between the Pioneer
    dvd recorders, (ie, model 220-S) were from a Sharp brand DVD Player.

    And, the reason for this is based on the MPEG's that the Pioneer 220-S
    produced after being connected to a Sharp DVD Player. The analysis showed
    that the color space were the same for the two sources, and the 220-S
    MPEG's were the same. This is a HUGE plus for such a "concerto" and, IMO
    proves a prefered combination for test scenarios. This topic could
    have greatly benefited by this. Anyways..

    But, in your "matrixorig1sec.vob" the color space seems a bit off, and not
    matching the original commercial dvd disk. So, I think it is fair to keep
    this in mind, when pointing out quality aspect from these recorders.
    Please consider these comments with respect to the color bars in the posts
    above.

    Is it possible for you to *borrow* a Sharp (brand) DVD player and then
    re-run the tests you endeavored above ??

    In any case ...

    The prefered setup, IMHO (when performing tests) is best when the following
    are used:


    ** Pioneer dvd recorder - [ie, 220-S, and others]
    ** Sharp DVD Player ----- [ie, Sharp 600]

    -vhelp 3584
    Quote Quote  
  23. "I have been running several analysis with your orginal vob file posted
    above, "matrixorig1sec.vob". I take it its from the dvd recorder unit."

    Sorry, that is not correct. I used DVD Shrink to rip the original movie sequence uncompressed and burned a dvd with Decrypter. I then used VirtualDubMod to take the still image from it. No player was involved.

    It is mentioned in the first post that the player used was the Panasonic DMR-ES10 for playback of the dvd created as described above for the Pioneer. I have Sharp VCR's but no Sharp DVD player. I do have Sony and Panasonic players. I plan to try one of them to see if it makes a difference.

    Regarding re-encoding the XP+, did you mean take it off the recorder and re-encode with a software encoder? I do not believe there is a way to get the XP+ capture off the unit's hard drive.

    Your suggestions are welcome. I am not entirely satisfied with the results I am getting.
    Quote Quote  
  24. Member FulciLives's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by trhouse
    Regarding re-encoding the XP+, did you mean take it off the recorder and re-encode with a software encoder? I do not believe there is a way to get the XP+ capture off the unit's hard drive.
    It would be nearly an "ideal" situation if there was a way to take a XP+ recording and get it from the Pioneer DVR-531H-s to the computer but alas there is no way to do that. However if it were possible that would be the way to go for less-than-excellent quality sources that need that special touch, aka AviSynth/VirtualDub filters with a multi-pass software MPEG encoding with CCE or TMPGEnc or MainConcepts etc.

    However if you have source material like that then you are probably better off with a capture card.

    As for myself I got the Pioneer DVR-531H-s for doing TV recording where it is just not "reasonable" from a time perspective to capture everything in AVI and then re-encode with a software encoder.

    As far as a computer capture device goes you can try the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 which is an external USB 2.0 capture device that does hardware MPEG capture and is capable of 15,000kbps CBR with "I" frame only encoding. That is about the same as XP+ mode on the Pioneer though I bet the Pioneer does not use "I" frames only (thought that is only a guess). Only drawback is it is limited to MP2 audio capture (PCM WAV is possible but then you are asking for A/V sync errors). I tried the ADS Instant DVD 2.0 and it was as good as it gets me thinks for a computer hardware MPEG capture device.

    The other option would be a DV capture solution like the DataVideo DAC-100 or the Canopus ADVC-100/110/300 etc.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
    Quote Quote  
  25. OK - here's some results from DVD recorder captures of the ripped THX test disc. I used my Pioneer DVR-320-S as the source DVD player, capturing both IEEE 1394 DV digital stream and s-video analog outputs. The 320 recorder is also an outstanding player with a very accurate picture. I had the analog output video picture controls set to eliminate any enhancements (no detail, noise reduction, etc.)

    I recorded to a Pioneer DVR-533H, a JVC DR-M10, and a Lite-On LVW-5006 All Write. The 533's analog video input picture controls were set so that there was no enhancement (no detail, noise reduction, etc.) and everything at neutral. Black level input for the 533 was 7.5 IRE, and the 320 player's black level output was set at 7.5 IRE when recording with the 533. For the JVC and the Lite-On, which do not have black level input compensation, the 320 player was set to 0 IRE black level output. For the DV captures, all the analog circuitry is bypassed, so no adjustments are possible. They are digital to digital conversions.

    The results are interesting and a little surprising. The Pioneer DVR-533H has the softest recorded image of the three, even when using the DV input. Although you can spot this easily with the multi-purpose THX test pattern, it is not as noticeable when comparing image frames from the Ice Age clip. The Pioneer's XP+ to SP re-encode does, in fact, soften the image a bit more than a straight SP encode. All three recorders do a great job in terms of MPEG2 encoding artifacts (macroblocks, mosquito noise, etc.) with very clean images, even at SP.

    However, the bottom line is that the JVC and the Lite-On (with their LSI MPEG2 encoding chips) produce slightly sharper, more detailed recordings. Their DV to DVD conversions look virtually identical to the source disc, and their analog s-video recordings are a bit more detailed than the Pioneer's captures despite the fact JVC and Lite-On apply preset noise filtering to analog sources. In fact, for s-video input the Lite-On appears to retain the most detail from the source analog image based on the THX test pattern results... but again, when you look at actual content images instead of test patterns all three look very good and it is difficult to spot any differences.

    Sometime in the future (when I get my hands on them), I'll run these same tests on Sony, Toshiba and Panasonic recorders, along with last year's Pioneer units. So far, this confirms that there is still no perfect DVD recorder. Now, if Pioneer had used LSI encoding chips instead of their own in these new units... oh, well.

    Here's the frames... all grabbed using VirtualDubMod, then saved to .jpg with Irfanview at 90% quality. No resizing on these. They're all 720x480.


    THX test disc, multi-purpose pattern:



    JVC DR-M10, DV input, SP mode:



    JVC DR-M10, s-video input, SP mode:



    Lite-On LVW-5006, DV input, SP mode:



    Lite-On LVW-5006, s-video input, SP mode:



    Pioneer DVR-533H, DV input, SP mode



    Pioneer DVR-533H, s-video input, SP mode



    Pioneer DVR-533H, s-video input, XP+ to SP re-encode




    Here's a frame comparison from the Ice Age clip:

    THX test disc, Ice Age clip:



    JVC DR-M10, DV input, SP mode:



    JVC DR-M10, s-video input, SP mode:



    Lite-On LVW-5006, DV input, SP mode:



    Lite-On LVW-5006, s-video input, SP mode:



    Pioneer DVR-533H, DV input, SP mode



    Pioneer DVR-533H, s-video input, SP mode



    Pioneer DVR-533H, s-video input, XP+ to SP re-encode
    Quote Quote  
  26. Member ann coates's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New York
    Search Comp PM
    Thanks for the tests everyone. It's been interesting.

    Originally Posted by gshelley61
    Now, if Pioneer had used LSI encoding chips instead of their own in these new units... oh, well.
    Do you know what chip was used in last years Pioneer 520? I swear the picture on my Pio 531 is better than it was on my 520.
    Quote Quote  
  27. Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    pancrase
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by ann coates
    Thanks for the tests everyone. It's been interesting.

    Originally Posted by gshelley61
    Now, if Pioneer had used LSI encoding chips instead of their own in these new units... oh, well.
    Do you know what chip was used in last years Pioneer 520? I swear the picture on my Pio 531 is better than it was on my 520.
    I told you the old one had better picture.

    The interesting thing in this test is, XP+ to SP and direct SP encodes... the direct SP produces a cleaner image, but in my testings, XP+ to SP eliminates the very prevelent macroblocks in direct to SP image.
    Quote Quote  
  28. These tests were done with different sources to see if it made a difference. There are some surprises.

    Sources used:

    Panasonic DMR-ES10, Pioneer DVR-531H, Panasonic DVD S-35

    Recorded to:

    Panasonic DMR-ES10, Pioneer DVR-531H with S-video

    This image is the Pioneer DVR-531H recording from the Panasonic DMR-ES10 as the source. The input preset on the 531 is "memory 1" setup same as LDP but with YNR filtering off.
    http://<br /> <br /> This image is with the recorders reversed. The Pioneer DVR-531H....jpg[/img]
    Quote Quote  
  29. The s-video analog outputs of different DVD players do vary. That's why I also included DV captures. The Pioneer 320 will play back a DVD through it's DV in/out port (as long as it is not copy protected), providing a digital source that bypasses all the analog input circuits and filters of the recorder being checked out. I think my 533 didn't do a very good job of DV to DVD conversion, based on that.

    Those Panasonic DMR-ES10 frames are 704x480. All the Panasonic machines record using that format. They crop the left and right frame edges, too. It is a DVD standard, but I think Panasonic is the only company using it in their DVD recorders. You might want to try posting your frames without resizing them, as that softens the image a little bit.
    Quote Quote  
  30. Yes, the DV captures look great. I looked up the specs on the DVR-320 and discovered it has the DV in/out capability you mentioned.

    Here are the images above without resizing. I left out the 533H source to ES10 capture. I may want to investigate that bit more. The following are all S-video, SP captures.

    533H capture using "memory 1". Same settings as LDP preset but YNR filtering off. ES10 as source.


    533H capture from S-35 as source.


    ES10 capture from S-35 as source.


    I would have to agree. For some reason, the 533 DV SP capture looks about the same as capturing straight from an analog input, but should really be much better.
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads