DVD Recorder models - Picture Quality and Features Analysis

[trhouse]

These images are from an action sequence from "The Matrix". It compares the original, the ES35V and the ES10 encodes.

The original,


ES35V XP mode


ES35V SP mode


ES35V LP mode


This is the ES10 LP mode for comparision


There are about the same number of macroblocks in both the LP encodes but do the they seem more subtle, for example, in Morpheus's head with the new encoder?

[lacywest]

"I've only used the XP+ mode once ... did accurate editing ... then recorded to a DVD-RW using the OPTIMISE option"

Where is the OPTIMISE option? When I place an XP+ capture on the hard drive to the copy list, I can set the recording mode, but have not run across the OPTIMISE option.

I am disappointed with Comcast as well. The blocks I see sometimes are far worse than anything I have seen any recorder produce.

I know what you mean ... Comcast out of Fresno California ... screws up the Sci-Fi channel bad ... I guess it's because its in the Analog section.

Directv Satellite ... the Sci-Fi channel ... is very clear.

[energy80s]

OK, finally got my captures of the Pioneer DVR-433 online. As there are quite a few, I've started a new thread here ... https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=297109

All comments greatfully received.

[lacywest]

These tests are of an action sequence from "The Matrix". The files are vob's ( which can be renamed mpg for viewing with Windows Media Player ).

The original
matrixorig1sec.vob

Still scene from the original


The straight SP capture
spmatrix.vob

Still scene from the SP capture


The XP plus to SP re-encoded capture
xpplusspmatrix.vob

Still scene from the XP plus to SP re-encoded capture


I do not see much improvement in blocks between straight SP and XP plus to SP. There are blocks left of Morpheus's ear, a 3x3 pattern of blocks to the right of Neo's knee of his extended leg and a horizontal pattern above his belt.

Strange that the captures look stretched compared to the original. All stills were resized to 640 by 480.

These pictures/screenshots ... are these coming from a Pioneer DVD Recorder ??

The small box up in the upper left corner ... I see that type of box in the Panasonic EH50 w/100 GB Hard Drive.

I don't have none of the Pioneers models ... DVR-531H-s DVR-533H-s DVR-633H-s

My Pioneer DVR-220 doesn't display that type of info

Update ... after posting ... Sorry ... I posted too soon ... I looked at the page before and I see what is happening ... I'm seeing pix of the ... ES30V

Moderators ... if you want to save bandwidth ... go for it ... delete this post ...

[drd1812]

I was wondering, is it possible to later change the HD in these DVD recorders? And if so, is it easy to swap the HD?

Thanks, I am new here so I don't know if this has been asked...

[MJA]

I was wondering, is it possible to later change the HD in these DVD recorders? And if so, is it easy to swap the HD?

Thanks, I am new here so I don't know if this has been asked...

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=253998

[trhouse]

I have a JVC-M10S sent to me for the purpose of identifying the source and cure for the famous "loading" bug. I believe that has been successfully done on this thread,
https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=255081&start=420

The M10S has been put through the same battery of tests as the other recorders on this thread. It is one of only two recorders tested that appears to be set up for IRE=0 instead of IRE=7.5 ( the other is the Sony RDR-GX315 ). The test results are for IRE=0 except for the black level tests in which tests for both IRE=0 and 7.5 are included. Neither the GX315 and M10S have black level adjustment or selection on the input side.

Source: Panasonic S-35 dvd player with S-video output to M10S.
Test patterns: THX test patterns from the ICE AGE disk
Capture software: VirtualDubMod followed by conversion from PNY format to JPG with 85% quality setting.

THX original test pattern for contrast,


M10S contrast XP mode, IRE=0


M10S contrast SP mode, IRE=0


M10S contrast LP mode, IRE=0, resized to 720 by 480 from 352 by 480


THX original test pattern for black level


M10S black level XP mode, IRE=7.5


M10S black level XP mode, IRE=0


M10S black level SP mode, IRE=7.5


M10S black level SP mode, IRE=0


M10S black level LP mode, IRE=7.5, resized to 720 by 480 from 352 by 480


M10S black level LP mode, IRE=0, resized to 720 by 480 from 352 by 480


THX original color bar


M10S color bar XP mode, IRE=0


M10S color bar SP mode, IRE=0


M10S color bar LP mode, IRE=0, resized to 720 by 480 from 352 by 480


ThX original from video clip.


M10S clip XP mode, IRE=0


M10S clip SP mode, IRE=0


M10S clip LP mode, IRE=0, resized to 720 by 480 from 352 by 480


Below is the update of October 24, 2006

There was a question regarding whether M10S's are IRE=0 or IRE=7.5 machines. The following test results were done on a second M10S, s/n 10901584, manufactured May, 2004 in Japan to verify which IRE it is. The same S35 dvd player was used as a source with the same ICE AGE disk except to verify accuracy, the source IRE was measured with a scope to make certain that the source IRE 0 and 7.5 settings are accurate. The results are for the M10S in SP mode.

Original THX test pattern for contrast


Source IRE=7.5


Source IRE=0


THX original test pattern for black level


Source IRE=7.5


Source IRE=0


THX original color bar


Source IRE=7.5


Source IRE=0


ThX original from video clip.


Source IRE=7.5


Source IRE=0


The second M10S also is an IRE=0 machine. Here is a thread in which Gshelley61 independently reached the same conclusion,

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1520709#1520709[/img]

These are the two units tested.


and

[trhouse]

These are tests of the Polaroid DRM-2001G. Same setup as before.

Source: Panasonic S-35 dvd player with S-video output to 2001G. IRE set for 7.5.
Test patterns: THX test patterns from the ICE AGE disk
Software: TMPGEnc Author and VirtualDubMod for PNY format images converted to JPG at 85% quality setting. [edit]The reason for TMPGEnc Author is that this recorder seems to only record in VR mode. VirtualDubMod cannot open the VR mode files but once they are imported into the computer with Author as mpg's, VirtualDubMod can then be used to extract still frames.

THX original test pattern for contrast,


2001G contrast XP mode


2001G contrast SP model


2001G contrast EP mode ( 4 hour ) resized from 352 by 480 to 720 by 480


THX original test pattern for black level


2001G black level XP mode


2001G black level SP mode


2001G black level EP mode ( 4 hour ) resized from 352 by 480 to 720 by 480


THX original color bar


2001G color bar XP mode


2001G color bar SP mode


2001G color bar EP mode ( 4 hour ) resized from 352 by 480 to 720 by 480


ThX original from video clip


2001G clip XP mode


2001G clip SP mode


2001G clip EP mode ( 4 hour ) resized from 352 by 480 to 720 by 480


[edit]

A few notes about this recorder,

1. It appears to record in VR mode only. A TV program was captured to a TY dvd-r disk. It was finalized and this is what the computer reports in drive D,


2. I had intended to use this capture with the Yesdvd software to see it it would produce a video mode disk but it will not start with -r media. With a +rw disk, it would start but only on the first capture. It seems it will only be useful for for creating chapters within one title and only if there is one title on the disk. If more than one title is captured, it will not start.

3. The tuner is mono. It was tested in a separate comment below with an oscilloscope on both channels.

4. This recorder has a zoom function like the Sony GX315.

5. The audio is recorded in mpeg1, layer 2 format.

[trhouse]

Polaroid DRM-2001G photos.

Front view with top off


Back view with top off


Power supply


Western Digital hard drive


LSI processor with cemented on heatsink


Tuner by Xuguang Tech Co. model JS-6AMF/L13F2-F2


Additional magnetic shielding on steel cover over power supply. I have not seen that in any brand before. I nice item to prevent interference.


LIUE? It is intended to be LIVE but the U was the best they could do with seven segment displays.


Temperature of the LSI processor is similar to that in the JVC DR-M10S.


Copper foil grounding is yet another good shielding example.


The remote. This is the weak point of the product. At three feet it works like any other remote. At 8-9 feet, it requires a few pushes to get the right function. If you do not use Yesdvd to create menus ( the menu button only addresses Yesdvd menus ), the Navigator button goes to one screen, then up arrow to select dvd, and enter to get to the menu. The required three pushes from 8-9 feet can become 4-8 pushes. That gets old fast.


[edit1]The poor performance of the remote might be due to the use of two AAA batteries. The IR output may have been lowered to extend battery life.

[edit2]I have since returned this unit to Walmart on the advice of another forum member,"Next", who informed me that Walmart had recalled these units probably in April or May. The unit I had tested above had a manufacture date of February/2006. "Next" also commented that his unit does not have the problem with the remote although he did return one that did.

[TBoneit]

Flouescent lights? I have seen them interfere with IR remotes. When I was trying out the Digital cable some years ago. I kept having remote problems. Cable guy came and tested. With lights off worked fine, lights On you had to get real close. I have remotes with aaa batteries and they work fine. Cheap remotes (IR recepetors?) seem to have a lower range of angles with remote to unit where they will work.

[trhouse]

Thanks for the tip about flourescent lights but there are none in the room so it must be the inexpensive design of the remote.

There have been questions about whether the tuner is mono or stereo. I put channel 4 output from the TV to a two channel oscilloscope,

TV stereo output for channel 4,


Output from DRM2001G tuned to channel 4 ( same program ).

This was one of several pics. The results were identical in all of them. Looks like both channels have the same information.

[Cobra]

I've made this thread a sticky, as per lordsmurf's request.
/ Cobra

[trhouse]

These are tests of the RCA 8030N. Same setup as before.

Source: Panasonic S-35 dvd player with S-video output to the 8030N. IRE set for 7.5.
Test patterns: THX test patterns from the ICE AGE disk
Software: Tsunami Media Editor and VirtualDubMod for PNY format images converted to JPG at 85% quality setting.The reason for Media Editor is that this recorder like the Polaroid 2001G records in DVD+VR format. VirtualDubMod cannot open the VR mode files but once they are imported into the computer with Media Editor as mpeg's, VirtualDubMod can then be used to extract still frames.

The RCA does not have XP, SP, LP modes. Instead it identifies the modes as 1(BEST) - 1 hour, 2(HIGH) - 2 hour, 3(GOOD) - 3 hour, and 4(NORMAL) - 4 hour in setup. There is no flex mode for in between times. Starting in mode 3, the 8030N drops from 720 by 480 to 352 by 480 resolution. The images below have been resized to 720 by 480 for these modes.

Original THX contrast image


8030N mode 1 contrast


8030N mode 2 contrast


8030N mode 3 contrast


8030N mode 4 contrast


Original THX black level image


8030N mode 1 black


8030N mode 2 black


8030N mode 3 black


8030N mode 4 black


Original THX color bar image


8030N mode 1 colorbar


8030N mode 2 colorbar


8030N mode 3 colorbar


8030N mode 4 colorbar


Original THX image from clip


8030N mode 1 clip image


8030N mode 2 clip image


8030N mode 3 clip image


8030N mode 4 clip image


Notes:

1. From the clip images, the 8030N captures are a bit on the yellow side.

2. The tuner is mono like the Polaroid 2001G but it is not as good. Captures from the tuner in dark scenes show thick alternating horizontal bars as in these two images.




3. The audio of the 8030N is Dolby unlike the 2001G's mpeg1, layer 2 audio.



4. The 8030N has a buffer which can be set for one hour or two. I saw one report that said the two hour buffer setting did not work. It worked in this unit.



5. The burning firmware is identified as StorageLabs



6. The IRE level seems a bit off in the black level tests as if the unit cannot reach IRE = 7.5. It was tested with a source IRE = 0 as well. The result was much darker than the original THX pattern.

[edit] Looking at the images a bit more, it seems the gain rather than the IRE may be off. The blacks are not sufficiently black but the whites are a bit dark as well. This shows up in the contrast tests which are mostly white, but the 8030N whites are not as bright.

7. The setup for record quality indicates mode 1 is one hour but when actually recording in mode 1 to a dvd-r, the reported time available is one hour, 24 minutes. 24 minutes is more variation than what might be expected from VBR encoding. It may be that this recorder cannot reach as high bitrates as others or it is deliberately being limited.

8. There are component outputs but no component inputs.

9. The maximum length of time for a single title on the hdd is eight hours in #2 mode. A test was run for the recorder to capture to an empty hdd from 7am to 9pm. Two titles were produced. One ran from 7am to 3pm and the second from 3pm to 9pm.

10. Copy of a mode 2, 18 minute long recording from the hdd to a TDK dvd-rw, X4 disk took 5 minutes and 28 seconds.

11. A transfer from the hdd of a two video in Mode 2 was made to a Taiyo Yuden TYG02, x8 dvd-r disk. The transfer took 36 minutes plus the additional time to finalize. The disk played back well on a Panasonic and Pioneer.

12. A transfer from the hdd of a mode 2 video to a TDK, X4, dvd-rw, then "made compatible" in "disc actions" played on the RCA but did not play on a Panasonic and Pioneer.

[trhouse]

Photos of the RCA DRC8030N

Front view


Rear view


Top overview,


Power supply


Seagate Caviar 80 GB hdd


Samsung tuner


Smartpro International dvd-drive


Zoran mpeg processor. I did not measure its temperature but with no heatsink it must be relatively cool


Bottom view. The fan is small but there are a good number of vent holes.

[trhouse]

These are tests of the Panasonic DMR-EH55S. Same setup as before. The test patterns were captured to the hdd then copied to a dvd-r.

Source: Panasonic S-35 dvd player with S-video output to the EH55S. IRE set for 7.5.
Test patterns: THX test patterns from the ICE AGE disk
Software: VirtualDubMod for PNY format images converted to JPG at 85% quality setting.

Original THX contrast image


EH55S contrast XP mode


EH55S contrast SP mode


EH55S contrast LP mode


Original THX black level image


EH55S black level XP mode


EH55S black level SP mode


EH55S black level LP mode


Original THX color bar image


EH55 color bar XP mode, DNR=on, Line In NR = on


EH55 color bar XP mode, DNR=off, Line In NR = off


EH55 color bar SP mode, DNR=on, Line In NR = on


EH55 color bar XP mode, DNR=off, Line In NR = off


EH55 color bar LP mode, DNR=on, Line In NR = on


EH55 color bar XP mode, DNR=off, Line In NR = off


Original THX image from clip


EH55S clip image XP mode


EH55S clip image SP mode


EH55S clip image LP mode


Notes:

1. Unlike some hdd recorders like the Pioneer 531H, the EH55S cannot erase from the hdd or copy a clip to a dvd disk while it is recording to the hard drive. The Pioneer can copy but not finalize while it is recording. The inability to erase hdd titles during recording can be a disadvantage if it is necessary to provide more space on the hdd during recording.

2. These are vob files created in two ways. The first is capture of "The Matrix" direct to dvd with the EH55S. The second is capture to hdd then to dvd to see if there is any difference.

The original Matrix file,
matrixorig1sec.vob

XP mode capture direct to dvd,
xpmatrixfastdvd.vob

SP mode capture direct to dvd,
spmatrixfastdvd.vob

LP mode capture direct to dvd,
lpmatrixfastdvd.vob

XP mode capture to hdd then to dvd,
xpmatrixfasthdd.vob

SP mode capture to hdd then to dvd.
spmatrixfasthdd.vob

LP mode capture to hdd then to dvd,
lpmatrixfasthdd.vob

[trhouse]

Panasonic DMR-EH55S photos

Front with SD slot open and front panel input door closed


Front with SD slot closed and front panel input door open


Rear panel


Top view with cover off


Hard drive


Mpeg encoder board. The encoder is under the aluminum heatsink in the center.


DVD drive


Power supply


TV tuner


TV tuner close up


Rear panel detail 1


Rear panel detail 2


Rear panel detail 3

[gshelley61]

Did you shut off the Line In video noise reduction for those recordings? It looks like it may have been on based on the upper end of the resolution scale of the multi-purpose test pattern.

[trhouse]

It was in the default of "automatic". I will try "off" and run the tests again for comparison.

[edit] I have done three more captures with DNR ( which I believe only affects playback ) and Line In NR off and posted them above with the captures with DNR and Line In NR both on for comparison.

[StuR]

For those looking for info to decide on DVD recorders here's a good link with general outline, bit outdated but that makes the models cheaper now.
http://www.btinternet.com/~james_lancaster/whichdvd.HTML#10

[trhouse]

These are tests of the LG RC797T combo unit. Composite output from the source was used instead of S-video since the RC797T has no S-video inputs.

Below is a link to the manufacturer's description.
http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/tv|audio|video_digital%20video__RC797T.jhtml

Source: Panasonic ES35V recorder with DNR set to off. IRE set for 7.5.
Test patterns: THX test patterns from the ICE AGE disk
Software: VirtualDubMod for PNY format images converted to JPG at 85% quality setting.


Original THX contrast image


RC797T contrast XP mode


RC797T contrast SP mode


RC797T contrast LP mode, resized from 352 by 480


Original THX black level image


RC797T black level XP mode


RC797T black level SP mode


RC797T black level LP mode, resized from 352 by 480


Original THX color bar image


RC797T color bar XP mode


RC797T color bar SP mode


RC797T color bar LP mode, resized from 352 by 480


Original THX image from clip


RC797T clip image XP mode


RC797T clip image SP mode


RC797T clip image LP mode, resized from 352 by 480


Notes:

1. The RC797T has no S-video inputs

2. Instead of a SD card reader this recorder has a USB port which can read flash drives or SD cards with a USB adapter. The transfer rate seems quite slow. The quality of the displayed jpeg is not all that good either. Burning the jpeg's to a dvd slide show is better.

3. The unit has a small footprint compared to the Panasonic DMR-ES35V. The RC797T is both a bit lower and 10" deep vs 13" for the ES35V.

4. This would not be a good unit to use as a tuner for a HDTV monitor. The RC797T downconverts to 720 by 480 and then upconverts back to HD. There is no passthrough of the original HD signal.

5. There is no flexible recording mode. In another forum there was a reviewer that said it did but they may be confusing the auto selection of the recording mode in timer mode but the selection is still XP, SP, LP, etc.

6. The unit has a ATSC, NTSC, and a QAM tuner which allows it to decode unencrypted, HD local programming from basic analog cable.

7. There are no adjustments for IRE level or any noise reduction controls at input or output.

8. These is one HDMI output but the only cables supplied are for composite.

9. It will record to dvd-r, dvd-rw ( both VR and video mode ), dvd+r, dvd+rw, dvd-ram, and dvd+r (DL).

10. It uses an LSI DMN8604 processor. This chip runs so cool that it does not require a heatsink. The temperature was measured after 26 minutes of playing a dvd. The chip temperature was 50 degrees C. ( ambient was 22 degrees C. ).

11. The temperature of most of the power supply components was measured. The highest temperature found as 62 degrees C. for two IC's that appear to be voltage regulators. See section on photos of the DR797T for more detail on temperature measurements.

12. The RC797T drops to 352 by 480 resolution in LP ( 4 hour ) mode.

13. It can put auto chapters in at five or ten minute intervals. It can also display these chapters as thumbnails. The highlighted chapter shows motion. The display of thumbnails was tested for dvd-ram and dvd-rw(VR) mode. Dvd-rw formatted in video mode shows chapter thumbnails before finalizing but once finalized they do not appear.

14. An edit menu is available for dvd-ram and dvd-rw formatted in VR mode. Dvd-rw formatted in video mode does not have the edit menu available. The editing available is limited to "delete part" which uses a time line to show the "start" and "end" position. The edit is not frame accurate. No new titles are created so removing commercials works with dvd-ram and dvd-rw(VR) mode.

15. Dvd+rw has an edit mode but it is different from dvd-ram and dvd-rw(VR) mode. The only edit possible is to divide a title but not remove a section so deleting commercials from +rw will not work well. The divde function is very slow. There is also a "hide" function to hide a title. Chapter thumbnails are available with +rw and adjacent chapters can be combined.

16. The RC797T combo was tested with a external color corrector but this combo will not work with external hardware for the following reasons. The VCR can be set to play and will continue to play even if "DVD" is selected, but all the outputs switch to what the DVD side is playing or not playing. If the DVD side is set to record, the 797T will not allow selecting the VCR so the VCR output is not available to feed into external hardware and back into, for example, the AV1 input on the DVD side.

17. DVD+R ( DL ) tests. These were done carefully to see how the 797T handles the layer change. It does it extremely well with no noticeable glitch found. It is as good as DL done on the computer.

The test was done as follows. A four hour VHS tape was recorded in SP mode to a Verbatim DVD+R (DL) disk. The 797T recorded 3 hours, 39 minutes and 54 seconds to the +DL disk. The same VHS tape was then recorded to a standard DVD+RW disk in SP mode to determine the location of the layer change. It was noted that the time displayed at scene where the +RW ended ( 2:02:50 ) and the same scene on the +DL were within a few seconds of each other.

The playback around that point was checked on the +DL from -10 minutes to +15 minutes first, then -5 minutes to +10 minutes, then -2 minutes to +2 minutes including playing back at 1/16 speed. No glitch whatever was found.

The three hour, 40 minutes was also divided in two yielding 110 minutes. The halfway, 110 minute juncture was also tested +/- five minutes to see if any glitch occurred. There was none.

[trhouse]

Photos of the LG RC797T combo unit.

Front and top


Rear and top


Tuner


Front panel removed


LSI processor under the dvd drive


Dvd drive with metal top removed


Power supply


Copper strapping for improved grounding


Temperature of switching regulator


Temperature of 220 ohm power resistors


Temperature of voltage regulator ( highest temperature found )


Temperature of LSI processor


Display brightness with front door down


Display with door closed. Unfortunately the door cuts the brightness down to the point the display is hard to see.

[trhouse]

Lately the links in this thread were not working properly apparently due to changes in the site. Thanks to vhelp for the solution.

[trhouse]

These are tests of the Panasonic DMR EZ37V combo unit. Line-In NR was off for these tests. Below is a link to the manufacturer's description.
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalog...00000000005702

Source: Panasonic S-35 player, IRE set for 7.5, S-video output to recorder.
Test patterns: THX test patterns from the ICE AGE disk
Software: VirtualDubMod for PNY format images converted to JPG at 85% quality setting.

Original THX contrast image


EZ37V contrast XP mode


EZ37V contrast SP mode


EZ37V contrast LP mode


Original THX black level image


EZ37V black level XP mode


EZ37V black level SP mode


EZ37V black level LP mode


Original THX color bar image


EZ37V color bar XP mode


EZ37V color bar SP mode


EZ37V color bar LP mode


Original THX image from clip


EZ37V clip image XP mode


EZ37V clip image SP mode


EZ37V clip image LP mode


Notes:

1. The EZ37V like the LG RC797T adds a ATSC tuner that downconverts to 720 by 480. It is not stated clearly in the manual but the EZ37V like the LG does have a QAM tuner and can receive HD local broadcasts off even analog cable.

2. Older Panasonics would capture to dvd-r/-rw, dvd+r/+r DL, and dvd-ram. These new units add dvd+rw. Only dvd-ram allows editing like chapter creation and deletion.

3. A dvd+r DL disk was burned with a four hour tape to test how well the layer change is handled. There was a hesistation at just past 110 minutes into playback.

4. A disappointment regards the flexible recording mode. Although this generation has it, it does not work directly from the internal VCR to the DVD recorder side as it did in previous generation combos like the ES35V. Flexible record does work if the source is any other input other than the internal VCR. The flexible record can be set up to work going out of the VCR side ( via the common dvd/vcr output ) and back into one of the dvd inputs such as IN1. This was tested with a JVC video corrector between the common output and IN1. A call to customer support verified this was true of both the new EZ37V and the higher end EZ47V.

6. The Panasonic combos continue to allow hardware processing such as TBCs or color correctors between the common dvd/vcr output and any of the dvd recorder inputs. It was tested with a JVC JX-C7 video corrector between the common dvd/vcr output and IN1.

[trhouse]

Photos of the Panasonic DMR-EZ47VK with temperature tests.

Front view


Rear view


Main board and VHS side. The mpeg processor board is visible on the left directly in front of the fan.


Power supply and tuner


Dvd drive


LSI processor. The earlier DMR-ES35V had the processor mounted to a board with a heatsink underneath the dvd drive. The EZ47VK has it on a board directly in front of the fan with no heatsink.


Temperature of the LSI with the unit off. The temperature of the chip is equal to room temperature.


Temperature of the LSI while on. The temperature increases 30 degrees C. This is ok when the room temperature is 20 degrees C. but the unit is specified to work up to 40 degrees C. at which the LSI part will be at 70 degrees C. That is typically the maximum temperature for a commercial grade chip.