Universal Players For Blu-ray and HD-DVD? Samsung Says “Yes”

[ROF]

Why exactly are you on this site then ROF? Around here we kinda like to manipulate things, change em up a bit! We dont like to bend over and lick the boots of every corporation and all of their arbitrary rules.

I could ask the same question of you. Nobody is licking boots here, merely stating opinions and facts as usual. Change is fine, so long as it doesn't violate the integrity of IP. That's all this is about: Failure by some to adhere to the laws. This "home phoning" in most cases will not effect most here since they do respect the IP of the authors and manufacturers. Those that don't . . . well . . . .

[BJ_M]

I said this along time ago and it seems as if I was right ... or getting closer anyway ....


HD-DVD will never make it - in fact if it is ever released at all would be a surprise and a financial risk ...

Sony holds something like 40% of the rights to existing movies .. plus they have ALL the big studios in the blu-ray camp ...

the PS3 will be bluray and as such - will drive costs down very quickly ...


and for those of you that dont know it -- the sony pro XDCAM system is already bluray (uses standard bluray disks and has both SD and HD cams, decks and editing systems from most major vendors already behind it) and has been out for more than a year ....

in fact - look at the facts:

CBS NEWS AND ALL CBS OWNED-AND-OPERATED STATIONS ADOPT SONY’S XDCAM PROFESSIONAL DISC SYSTEM FOR ENG

Largest producer of Chinese-language programming in the world, Hong Kong’s Television Broadcasts Limited (TVB) switches 100% to XDCAM

E! NETWORKS ADOPTS SONY XDCAM PROFESSIONAL DISC SYSTEM

ABC OWNED-AND-OPERATED STATIONS MOVE TO SONY XDCAM PROFESSIONAL DISC SYSTEM FOR ENG

KING WORLD PURCHASES SONY’S XDCAM PROFESSIONAL DISC SYSTEM FOR "INSIDE EDITION" EFP AND ARCHIVING

NBC NEWS TO USE SONY’S PROFESSIONAL XDCAM OPTICAL DISC SYSTEM AT THE SUMMER GAMES IN ATHENS

etc etc etc ....

in others words - sony is way ahead of the curve ball with bluray recorders and players.....

[oldfart13]

"Ok, what about the phone authorization that will be supposedly required to play Blu Ray DIscs? Why isnt anyone concerned about this?


What's the concern really? If you don't open the case and break your warranty by doing so or use warez discs, this will cause you no ill harm. Most integral software installed on your computer calls home periodically to update/check for updates itself. Quite a few satelite systems do this as well. Even my cable companies set top box does this. This type of updating and IP protection has been going on since the early 90's. It's about darn time my media player does this too. it gets really upsetting when I put a disc in to find the player can not play that format and the player has no way to update itself. "

This is pure BS! What are you? Some shill for the companies involved? I've had sat TV since the first home DBS units were made available (on both sides of the Canadian/US border) and they have never needed to be plugged in to the phone line. My current Dishplayer has never been plugged in and it's never taken an update via that route (in 6 years). The updates all come down off the sats involved. The computer also doesn't call home to get upgrades unless you authorize it to do so. What you are talking about is having a piece of equipment intrude on your rights over the rights of some faceless company. I don't know about you but I for one don't allow anyone to do that. As for ordering PPV, that can be done via the net now. There is absolutely no need for your consumer rights to be trampled any more than they are already.

[Cornucopia]

I was just thinkin'--I'm a law-abiding, middle aged (and mid-life crisis!), middle income, eager technophile--just the target audience they need to appeal to. And they aren't (anymore).
Look, no matter what the format, if I can't record/produce my own stuff, if I can't back up/safeguard my purchases, if I can't bypass excess (to my taste) marketing crapola, if I can't get a unit/system without hidden costs (phoneline/rewiring), and if I am not allowed final, complete and ultimate control over when, where, what, with whom, and how I watch/listen to the stuff--ESPECIALLY without having someone looking over my shoulder--, I just won't buy it. It's not that important.
Whoopity-do! it's got higher Rez/higher Def...if it's also got a higher inconvenience/aggravation factor--it's not worth it.
The good thing is that I don't think I'll really have to worry about this. There are so many who are either like me or even more reluctant ( or less well off) than I am.
If the format(s) don't realize this, it won't sell well and will sink under the weight of their own BS.
Then, a little later, the companies might wake up and say "Oh yeah, we forgot that the customer is our lifeblood!", and they'll fix it to make it more CONSUMER FRIENDLY (and not just Producer friendly), repackage it, and it'll do great.
Mainly depends on us consumers standing up for our rights and not always blindly bending over taking it up the a$$.

Scott

[MikieV]

Not everyone will want to connect their players to a phone line.

What scares me is, I don't think they care.

They made the mistake of giving us a choice, years ago, between CSS-protected "pay once" DVDs, and Divx "pay-per-view" DVDs. They thought it was going to be like releasing movies on both VHS and Betamax - and who cares which format wins.

But "unbreakable" CSS was broken, and the restrictions of Divx left that format with too-few adopters - leaving them with no alternative to an established, popular format with broken encryption.

I think they have learned from all of that, and are planning on eliminating any reasonable chance that history will repeat itself.

They know a lot of people want to buy their movies, and they are only going to supply them on a "Divx-on-steroids" format.

We say it will cost them sales, they believe it will save them the (grossly inflated??) loses they whine about.

We should know how its going to turn out, at about this time next year??

[QuaiBoy]

I'll stop buying movies, I'm not even kidding. No one in my family will put up with that crap. They really have some balls to think people are going to jump through these hoops just to watch new releases. I'll keep enjoying the back catalog on DVD as long as I can, thanks.

-Evan-

[whitejremiah]

that means we will no longer have the right to make a backup copy to prevent children from outright WRECKING original discs............im gonna take a pass on blu ray personally.

[NiteLite]

Let's be clear on one thing. The phone line (if there) will be for one reason and one reason only. To collect what you watch, when you watch, and the info used or to be sold to anyone who feels a profit can be made by purchasing that information.
TIVO first claimed their recorders couldn't collect personal info. Later at a CES when confronted directly, they claimed "yes, we have that capability but would never use it. Then it was found that TIVO is sharing the info with Directv and any company willing to buy. In fact TIVO provided the News with the amount of times the Janet Jackson malfunction was recorded and viewed even to the times it was rewound and watched again. (source CNN)
This is totally an invasion of privacy.

If I go to CC or BB and buy a DVD or a book store and pay cash then only I know what and when I watch or read. With a phone calling in to report then everyone can know...from advertisers to government. And dont think they dont want that info. With all the new Gov't agencies and "Laws /Acts" the amount of personal info that is allowed to be and actually is collected is alarming.
J Edgar would be delighted and probably buy a fancy new dress.
Dont believe the BS about there's nothing you can do or there is no such thing as privacy. Most may be gone but there are still some left and by not buying into such products and letting the companies know why you will not buy will go a long way in protecting what is left.

Personally I wont buy a product that requires a phone line to use.
If I have to stick with conventional DVD so be it. My eyes are not as HD as they use to be anyway.
It will be somewhat shocking to see anytime soon a combo unit in North America. What will that cost.
NL

[ebenton]

Hey ROF:
Are you a lawyer? You sure sound like one. If you're not, you should consider going to law school. You have the perfect mindset to be a corporate lawyer.
That's not an insult...unless you want it to be.
If you do perceive that statement as an insult, there may yet be hope for you. Otherwise...

[SilverBlade]

I think both formats will fail. Half of movie studios are backing one, half are baking the other. The average Joe doesn't have the money to buy an HD player and a Blu-Ray player just to watch the movies they like.

Also, they both will fail because they arn't compatible with non-HD TV's, and I doubt that any person with a brain in their head will buy an HD TV *just* to cater to a movie. I sure wouldn't, who has money these days?

If they can't come up with a unified format, then everyone looses. I will wait to see which one consumers have chosen, and I'm sure a lot of consumers are going to do the same thing..wait. That's the smart choice in my opnion.

[somebodeez]

...and I'm sure a lot of consumers are going to do the same thing..wait. That's the smart choice in my opnion.

That's what I'm doing.
We don't even have an HDTV. When they come out with one that can display shows and movies without making them look like low quality DivX 3 LM rips and can handle what I have now without making it look like crap, I might get one.

[painkiller]

I, too, will likely wait for prices to fall - formats to fall - heck, anything to fall.

As to the issue of privacy- it is more than just that.

Speaking as one who does an awful lot of work in the digital realm - there is another point to consider.

Having appliances and computers networked in the home raises the bar, and potential for abuse and fraud - concerning all of your private data.

Checking, saving, legal documents, identifying numbers, subscription accounts, passwords, logins, family members, names addresses, phone numbers, IM accounts, text msg accounts, email ccounts, VPN tunnels, etc.

Do you REALLY want to trust that some company will restrict their internet communications software to their own hardware - when it can very easily find the rest of your stuff?

Exactly how do you know what data is collected and transmitted?

Major corporations have issues with that now. They (hopefully) don't let their employees install whatever they wish on their networks.

What makes you think you should be so free with your own network?

The mantra should never be "Privacy is lost anyway" - you have to fight this battle continuously.

Otherwise, prepare for a life of cruelty and abuse.

[nelson133]

IMHO, anyone who allows software to update itself without owner control is feeble minded. Get a good firewall (zonelabs has a free one) and don't let anything on your computer has unmonitored access to the net.
Secondly, anyone that would purchase software that requires periodic contact with the seller to continue working after purchase falls in the same category. DVDAuthor 1.5 is as far as I am going with that bunch. freedom and independance reuires some effort on the individuals part, it always has, if you don't put out the effort, you lose.
Company shills cruise the boards everywhere, just see what happens if a criticism of Microsoft gets posted. ROF is just one of a boring type.
Nyah Levi

[mike1061]

Has anybody thought about, and monthly service charge? I other words is it possable they might make this a subscription service? Some cable/satallite company's have a basic package, no control boxes, just plug in the coax cable and watch. The more expencive packages have more chanels, better TV guide, but need a control box, some are connected to the phone. So is it possable they could sell you the unit, and you could watch old DVD's free, but if you want to watch the new disks, you have to have the subscription? How about the possability of a subscription charge for combo units, TIVO/Blue-ray recorder/player? I don't have any idea if this is possable, I just through it out for discussion.
Thanks MIke

[lumis]

i dont think we'll have much of a choice.

they're not going to leave hardware out there they cant update.

the only way to ensure that is by having some sort of communication to verify that it hasnt been compromised.

there are already a ton of people around the country who have their television receivers (dish, cable) connected to phone lines.. what makes you think those vast amounts of people arent going to put a splitter on their phone line running to their reciever and send a wire to their next gen movie player? probably nothing, their player will probably include a splitter & a phone line.

the content companies will do anything to prevent you from stealing from them.. oh, whats that, you're not stealing? prove it. connect a phoneline to your box.. if you dont want to, then go ahead and stick to dvd.. it sure does look really crappy on your hdtv that we're forcing you to buy.. dont like that? well, guess what, 95% of the rest of people dont care or just dont now.. you're a tiny minority with no real power..

it's not fair, and personally i hope it has the **** hacked out of it.. i hope its a bigger catasrophe for them than dvd.. i hope they put all their eggs in one basket and it backfires on them bigtime.. unfortunetly, i doubt it will be that easy.. there will be many safeguards to prevent that..

next gen video players, xbox 360, & ps3.. it should be interesting.. this is probably going to be the biggest fight yet concering content protection.

[the future]

This thread is hilarious. All this high drama based on nothing at all. I'm strictly against shouting on internet forums, but just this once it seems very necessary:

A BLU-RAY (OR HD-DVD) STANDALONE PLAYER WILL NOT REQUIRE AN INTERNET CONNECTION.

If you really want to know what the next gen disks and players will or won't do, you should read the following thread where some industry insiders regularly post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=734b70d2c67e36bd82a93f662aa285f7&t=411...page=380&pp=30

Chill, people. The industry did learn from Divx.

[-jsl-]

To be more exact here are a couple of quotes from that thread:

While I suppose I am one of the "hardware people", I can confirm that it is our common understanding with content providers to preserve, at a minimum, the basic use model of DVD -- that is, to assure that players that never connect to the internet in any way can play the main movie content. This is based on my extensive discussions with studio representatives regarding their requirements and desires for the next-gen format, which is what I do as part of my job.

The idea of internet connectivity is to enable content that goes beyond that of today's DVDs (one example might be internet gaming), and to enable usage models that extend beyond the disc.

This was written by Richard Doherty which at this time was managing director of Panasonic Blu-ray and professional A/V.

And to the following question:

Just to be clear and put this issue finally to rest so there's no confusion later on, I'll be able to play all permutations of the movie on either format anywhere; my machine, the kid's machine, at my brothers' house on his machine, etc. (assuming the format is compatible) without any problems, including formal registration or internet connectivity, Right?

Amir Majidimehr, vice president of Microsoft Windows Digital Media Division, gives the following answer:

With the caveat that we are at 0.9 revision of AACS spec, everything you say is true Palladin. Also note that I can only speak for HD-DVD right now. I don't know if BD will add something to the AACS soup on this front but I somehow doubt it as the core CE companies there have a strong distaste for internet connectivity also (they think it makes the device too complicated). And there is no pressure that I have seen from studios to have such connectivity (other than to repair compromised players possibly).

PC software players might need to update their keys via Internet though:

Nobody comes out and says it will need an internet connection, but the keys expire after 6 months or so. I don't see any other reliable way of renewing them. This implies you don't need an always-on connection, just one long enough to renew the keys.

It's really irnoic about Linux since most of the players will be using it.

Written by Keith Jack, Director of Product Marketing at Sigma Designs.

[the future]

Good work -jsl-, finding the key quotes in that enormous thread.

Btw, what R.Doherty alluded to speaking of "usage models that extend beyond the disc" was probably the concept of "Managed Copy" that is being discussed there as well. The good part is that the next-gen disks will very probably allow one legal copy to HDD (for example for home media server usage) or even another disc. The bad part is that those copies will have to be "secure" (requiring internet connection, "secure" hardware etc.) and will not be free. How much they will cost is up to each Hollywood studio.

[somebodeez]

Unless I have misunderstood, rather sounds like internet connection would still be a requirement at some point in time.
Not good enough.

I just want to be able to watch my stuff no matter where I happen to be, no matter how long ago I've purchased *my* disc (IMHO - if I buy something ,it's mine - period.) and I don't want to be bothered by anything before, during or afterwards.

[the future]

Repeat after me: If all you want to do is put the disc in your player, any player, anywhere, anytime, you will never need an internet connection. Software players (read: computer) may be a different story, but how this will play out is not clear yet.

Oh, and once you've seen pristine hd content on a great hd display, resistance will be futile anyway...

[somebodeez]

Guess I'll just have to wait & see

About HD - read my post further up
So far, I haven't seen a thing that has impressed me.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1354459&sid=99f4d9074b0f498d82c0acc60fd0bc2e#1354459

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1354641&sid=99f4d9074b0f498d82c0acc60fd0bc2e#1354641

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1355392&highlight=&sid=99f4d9074b0f498d...d0bc2e#1355392

I'm going to be a very hard sell.
Forget Hollywood's requirements - these products are going have to meet *my* requirements before I buy any of them. :P

[BJ_M]

This thread is hilarious. All this high drama based on nothing at all. I'm strictly against shouting on internet forums, but just this once it seems very necessary:

A BLU-RAY (OR HD-DVD) STANDALONE PLAYER WILL NOT REQUIRE AN INTERNET CONNECTION.

If you really want to know what the next gen disks and players will or won't do, you should read the following thread where some industry insiders regularly post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=734b70d2c67e36bd82a93f662aa285f7&t=411...page=380&pp=30

Chill, people. The industry did learn from Divx.

1. a lot of people at the avs forums are knuckle heads ...

2. some of what is there is partially true -- but not the full story .. and a time frame is not put into context ..

[painkiller]

Not to belabor the point, but it seems some people just don't believe that this will happen.....

I am presently undergoing testing of software that will not install when it doesn't detect the ability to communicate with its company's servers over the internet. The company denies this is the case. This coming week will tell...

Another software package the company bought also wants to use the internet during installation for the purpose of finding the appropriate license from that manufacturer's servers. If it fails to find it - it will not install. Plus, it downloads updates without the user's intervention. This is a security risk.

Since TIVO has been on record as providing collected viewer dat (the infamous Janet Jackson SUperbowl incident) to the press, there is that evidence the public wasn't aware until after this took place. TIVO has now upgraded their Series 2 PBRs to version 7.2 which will allow two way interaction through a users PC network.

Just a few things to consider, folks.

[SilverBlade]

What I see, is *both* formats failing because of restrictions, 'firmware' share-ware, and the possible requirement of an internet connection.

Some don't have an internet connections, and those who don't today probably won't have a permanent connection in the future anyways.

Some would have to re-wire their whole house *just* to watch movies. That's not going to happen for me. Hollywood should cater to *us*, not the other way around.

Some would have to purchase a router in order to use the player, which also leads to configuration problems when someone is not really in that field. If the households needs to buy a router, let hollywood buy it, they got the money.

Speaking of money, all they are doing is *wasting* billions of dollars on new security, new formats and the like..when that security will be broken like every other security scheme out there. Instead of wasting this money, spend it on movies which is actually worth our time and money.

I hope these formats fail, I really do. It might teach the brainless execs at Hollywood that *we* made them rich. *We* gave them prosperity, and *we* can refuse to buy into this. *They* should cater to *our* needs and requirements as *we* have given them a lifestyle that *we* can't even dream of.