Universal Players For Blu-ray and HD-DVD? Samsung Says “Yes”

[BJ_M]

Internet reports say Samsung will be the first to market with a “universal” player that will be able to play both pending HDTV disc formats – HD-DVD and Blu-ray. The first “universal” players came on the market during the lose-lose format battle between DVD-Audio and SACD. Prices and release dates for the new players aren’t readily available but might become public after the CEDIA trade show (going on right now).

Consumers simply do not want a format war yet the two HD disc camps can not seem to ink a deal to join forces on one disc format. Sony, who backs Blu-ray, has an impressive list of supporters for the format including most major Hollywood studios, a host of Silicon Valley computer companies and at least half of the major record labels. HD-DVD has its supporters but is reeling now with a delay to its launch. Rumors have Blu-ray discs and players in stores for the Holiday selling season.

read more here http://www.avrev.com/news/0905/08.dualplayer.html

[ebenton]

Depending upon the price, I might actually be an "early adopter" of this. If someone had built a combination VHS/Beta VCR back in the 80's, I might have bought one of those, too.
I also bought a combination regular DVD/"Divx" DVD player from Circuit City back in the late 90's, (Divx the buy/rent DVD scheme, not the video format) just in case Divx turned out to be something that caught on.
As it turned out, Divx went nowhere fast. At least, after it died, I got $100.00 back from Circuit City or the DVD player manufacturer (I don't remember which). $100.00 was how much extra a Divx player cost over a regular DVD player.
I doubt that whoever loses the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray battle will reimburse anything to buyers of their format or buyers of combo players.
The business and financial reasons and the atmosphere for the $100 Divx refund were different than things are now, but it would be cool if both combatants in this "war" would offer refunds to buyers if they lose.

[LDinOR]

Looks like this dual reader will be the way to go till someone takes a fall.

..and dude, thanks for the info, you are a benefit to this forum. The smoking baby is real cute, but can you lose the spider? It's as annoying as those mortgage ads on cnn.com.

[waheed]

Its about time. But im holding on to my money until I see players falling in price to a reasonable level. Prices will be sky high at time of release.

[the future]

Well, the PS3 will be a Blu-ray player...

[ebenton]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I also bought a Pioneer DV563A DVD player that plays both SACD and DVD-Audio disks.
I'm either a very forward-looking guy or the biggest sucker on the planet.

[AngusMacGyver]

For people were sure there wouldn't be DVD recorders for both +R and -R... Today, nobody cares about plus or minus in PC recorders.
My opinion is both formats will coexist for a time and, in a short future, nobody will care about it.
Remember I'm Brazilian and here everything arrives later.
Tchau... ooops!... Bye.

[ROF]

this is very good news for the consumer. I wasn't looking forward to another format war. Fortunately, the war looks to be over even before it has begun with blu-ray winning. This hybrid will slam a few more nails into the HD-DVD coffin. Good riddance to a non-player I say.

[LDinOR]

Thank you sir.

[pchan]

The PRICE will definitely drop faster then a single format.

But why rush and buy if there is no need for it.

As production increase, cost of manufacturing will drop and of course the retail price will drop accordingly. For electronic gadget, cost of manufacturing will drop about 30~40% for every doubling of production volume.

[bokkasrealm]

Ok, what about the phone authorization that will be supposedly required to play Blu Ray DIscs? Why isnt anyone concerned about this?

[bokkasrealm]

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/12349

P.S. - There is the article.

[ebenton]

But why rush and buy if there is no need for it.

Because it's *NEW*!! You want to be the cool guy and be the first one on your block to own an HD DVD disk and an HD DVD player!! So you can brag about how *COOL* you are around the water cooler at work!
Some people never get over that, even after they graduate from Junior High School.
Heyyy....wait a minute...that's me!

[compuser]

Ok, what about the phone authorization that will be supposedly required to play Blu Ray DIscs? Why isnt anyone concerned about this?

Sounds like Divx all over again...

[ROF]

Ok, what about the phone authorization that will be supposedly required to play Blu Ray DIscs? Why isnt anyone concerned about this?

What's the concern really? If you don't open the case and break your warranty by doing so or use warez discs, this will cause you no ill harm. Most integral software installed on your computer calls home periodically to update/check for updates itself. Quite a few satelite systems do this as well. Even my cable companies set top box does this. This type of updating and IP protection has been going on since the early 90's. It's about darn time my media player does this too. it gets really upsetting when I put a disc in to find the player can not play that format and the player has no way to update itself.

This will be a boon to the consumer as long as the consumer isn't stealing or modding their media hardware in ways that violate the license agreement and warranty you agreed to before plugging it in. Just because it's a passive agreement doesn't mean it's any less binding.

The only real concern might be in the portable market or those who do not have a phoneline near their player. For the portable market, I'm sure an alternate solution will present itself when these begin to be manufactured. Those without a phoneline near the player can invest $2 in a phone jack and $5 for cable and their concern is alleviated.

[waheed]

ROF, you dont see the point.

Its about privacy, why should you let anyone know what you are watching and when. What about watching home movies or a wedding video stored on HD-DVD/Blu Ray in the future when recordable media reaches an affordable level. Not every disc has to be warez. This is the very reason DivX failed.

Besides, softwares can only update if you have given consent to do so (under the options when installing).

This is exactly what microsoft are doing with DRM. If companies decide to take the phone authorisation route, then i wont be buying their players, im quite happy to stick with DVD.

[Cornucopia]

If you don't open the case and break your warranty by doing so or use warez discs, this will cause you no ill harm. Most integral software installed on your computer calls home periodically to update/check for updates itself. Quite a few satelite systems do this as well. Even my cable companies set top box does this. This type of updating and IP protection has been going on since the early 90's. It's about darn time my media player does this too. it gets really upsetting when I put a disc in to find the player can not play that format and the player has no way to update itself.

This will be a boon to the consumer as long as the consumer isn't stealing or modding their media hardware in ways that violate the license agreement and warranty you agreed to before plugging it in. Just because it's a passive agreement doesn't mean it's any less binding.

The only real concern might be in the portable market or those who do not have a phoneline near their player. For the portable market, I'm sure an alternate solution will present itself when these begin to be manufactured. Those without a phoneline near the player can invest $2 in a phone jack and $5 for cable and their concern is alleviated.

Harm:
1. I would have to re-arrange my house/furniture to accommodate placing the device close to a phoneline/internet connection. --or--
2. I would have to rewire the house to add a new drop
3. I would have to have a "dedicated" line --or-- re-arrange my family's schedule so phone use won't conflict with watching movies.
4. Any firmware update-ability contains the possible opportunity for frying the firmware--even if it originates from the head end. How could a consumer prove that they weren't the one's who ruined their $500 machine?
5. Speaking of updateability, that opens the door to viruses.
6. It is not too much of an extrapolation, that with producer's remote control of the media, it could be made so that I would have to give up borrowing from/lending to friends/relatives.
7. Or the public library. Or rental stores.
8. There are many perfectly legal reasons why someone might modify or repair a machine (CC direct output, serial control, etc). In the past, doing so has ONLY voided the manufacturer's repair warranty. Will these actions throw a curve ball, such that the device won't even be "allowed" to play?
9. There are thousands, perhaps millions of people whose only phone is a cell phone. They would have to buy an additional land line.
10. $2? $5? What planet do you live on? a 6foot phone extension cable at Radio Shack is probably $10. A phone jack is $5-10, and you would need to know how to install it correctly (I do, but many don't), or if you rented, you would need to get permission from the landlord to do rewiring.
There's more, but that's enough for starters...

Software that is WELL WRITTEN allows one who is not connected to type in authorization codes (with phone verification) or connect a dongle. Even M$ Windows XP/Office allows that. This wouldn't. And many computer installations are still stand-alone with no ill effects. You just install via CD (even updates can be downloaded and burned to disc).

Satellite and cable systems are SUBSCRIPTION services. The CD amd DVD and it's successors have never been touted as subscription services, they follow the Physical Copy business model. This allows for consumer choice in terms of type of use, place of use, time of use, audience combination, repetition of use. This new setup should be construed as false advertising, to say the least. Hell, it's "UN-AMERICAN"!

I tend to give the consumer the benefit of the doubt and NOT the corporations. You seem to be stating the reverse.

Scott

[somebodeez]

Ok, what about the phone authorization that will be supposedly required to play Blu Ray DIscs? Why isnt anyone concerned about this?

I for 1, am very concerned!

[Cornucopia]

Yeah, I really am more concerned about corporate abuses given the inclusion of this "feature" than I am about consumer abuses given the lack of it. "Narrowcasting" and other BigBrother-esque target marketing strategies come to mind.

Scott

[MikieV]

Ok, what about the phone authorization that will be supposedly required to play Blu Ray DIscs? Why isnt anyone concerned about this?

I would assume that it is because people are already accoustomed to it, and so couldn't care less.

So many people have pay-per-view cable or satellite systems which may require similar "connectivity", it will be just another box in their A/V-system that needs a connection.

Since they don't have any expectation of privacy with their current equipment, they don't expect it in anything new. We've been on the "slippery slope" for awhile, now.

[ROF]

Its about privacy, why should you let anyone know what you are watching and when. What about watching home movies or a wedding video stored on HD-DVD/Blu Ray in the future when recordable media reaches an affordable level. Not every disc has to be warez. This is the very reason DivX failed.

Besides, softwares can only update if you have given consent to do so (under the options when installing).

Privacy? Which earth are you living upon? There is no such thing as privacy anymore and hasn't been for quite sometime. I always find that defense laughable. Home Privacy hasn't existed for at least a decade and with each passing year the methods of intrusion are broken down even further. Some software doesn't even ask you if you want it to check for updates upon installation. It does so automatically and then asks if you want to begin the install. There is an option to auto install, but in most cases the check is automatic with no option of prevention short of unplugging the network.

[waheed]

Privacy will be diminished if keep giving companies like these the go ahead with such ridiculuos schemes that dont work. Not everyone will want to connect their players to a phone line.

I think most softwares prompts the individual before an update is made. And not everyone has a internet connection, some people are happy witrh their version of software without requiring any further updates.

There are alot of reasons why poeple wouldn't want to hook up their players to a phone line. Cornucopia has pretty much given you a reasonable explanation.

[ROF]

Harm:
1. I would have to re-arrange my house/furniture to accommodate placing the device close to a phoneline/internet connection. --or--
2. I would have to rewire the house to add a new drop
3. I would have to have a "dedicated" line --or-- re-arrange my family's schedule so phone use won't conflict with watching movies.

It's a data transmission similiar to DSL. The only difference is the filter isn't attached to every phoneline, it's built into the jack on the device.

4. Any firmware update-ability contains the possible opportunity for frying the firmware--even if it originates from the head end. How could a consumer prove that they weren't the one's who ruined their $500 machine?
5. Speaking of updateability, that opens the door to viruses.

My cable box is updated on a daily basis. I can even change my subscription with a few clicks of the remote. I've fried the box several times (lovely blue screen). The only requirement is to turn the device off and back on. It again "phones home" and fixes itself. I'd imagine that this would be similiar and would not be like updating BIOS firmware for our motherboards where one wrong click or power disruption and the board is useless. If the morons at my cable company can do it, I'm quite sure these tech-wizs can too.

6. It is not too much of an extrapolation, that with producer's remote control of the media, it could be made so that I would have to give up borrowing from/lending to friends/relatives.
7. Or the public library. Or rental stores.

Incorrect. The media is not coded for you or your machine. It's coded to protect from people making backups of their media. Sure, you can argue all day long you have a right to backup your media you purchase, but in the end I'm going to ask you to insert your media and review your rights as they are displayed on the screen

8. There are many perfectly legal reasons why someone might modify or repair a machine (CC direct output, serial control, etc). In the past, doing so has ONLY voided the manufacturer's repair warranty. Will these actions throw a curve ball, such that the device won't even be "allowed" to play?

Name just one reason why you should as the end user have the right to tamper with the internal workings of this companies machinery. Is it illegal? Does it violate their warranty to do so? If you answer Yes to either of those, the company has the right to deny you serviceable machinery. Just because they haven't in the past doesn't mean the future has to remain a status quo.

9. There are thousands, perhaps millions of people whose only phone is a cell phone. They would have to buy an additional land line.

Consequently most media companies have stock in telephony. Need I say more.

10. $2? $5? What planet do you live on? a 6foot phone extension cable at Radio Shack is probably $10. A phone jack is $5-10, and you would need to know how to install it correctly (I do, but many don't), or if you rented, you would need to get permission from the landlord to do rewiring.

I live on planet earth where most people(especially tech savvy) do not base their pricing on the inept and overpriced Radio Shack. However, the idea of a landlord not allowing you to have a landline in against rural/city/county codes in most states.

Software that is WELL WRITTEN allows one who is not connected to type in authorization codes (with phone verification) or connect a dongle. Even M$ Windows XP/Office allows that. This wouldn't. And many computer installations are still stand-alone with no ill effects. You just install via CD (even updates can be downloaded and burned to disc).

True. That's why I said I'll bet that when it comes to portables an alternate solution will be needed. I'd imagine an alternate will be provided that still maintains the integrity of IP inside the machine and the media it plays, while at the same time allowing the end user "roaming".

Satellite and cable systems are SUBSCRIPTION services. The CD amd DVD and it's successors have never been touted as subscription services, they follow the Physical Copy business model. This allows for consumer choice in terms of type of use, place of use, time of use, audience combination, repetition of use. This new setup should be construed as false advertising, to say the least. Hell, it's "UN-AMERICAN"!

False advertising. I read the article, I think you did or at least you are discussing it here months before it's actually being considered for implementation. I'm quite sure the boxes will state the requirements and limitations as most manufacturers do include such listing on all packaging. The physical copy model is no longer valid in the 21st century. It's a dated business model that doesn't effectively protect the end user or the authors IP. Case in point, How many bookstores/record stores were in your town in the middle 80's? How many are there now? This new and better business model is not only American made, it's more American than baseball and apple pie.

I tend to give the consumer the benefit of the doubt and NOT the corporations. You seem to be stating the reverse.

Nobody should be given the benefit of the doubt in business. That's rule # 1 of doing business.

[ebenton]

I'm pretty sure that TIVO already monitors what you record and watch by using your phone line. Supposedly they don't keep track of who you are, just that fact that program x was recorded on date y at time z.

Needless to say, there will be assurances galore that no personal data is being collected about you. These kinds of things always make me skeptical, though.

Regarding the phone line use: When I had Divx, the player reported in to headquarters at 2AM on some day once a month. If you happened to be using the phone at 2AM, it would keep trying until it got through. I believe, although I am not sure, that you could call up Divx and have them change your phone-in time to something else.

I don't know if Divx kept track of what movies you played, but it did know who you were because they had to send you a bill every month based on what you played. In the case of Blu-Ray, they probably don't need to know this. It's doubtful that the actual filename or anything else about the data you are actually playing or burning would be sent to anyone via the phoneline. However, you never know. But it will be interesting to see if you need to personally register your player, or just hook up your phone line to it and let it do its own thing. I guess if you don't block your caller ID they could get your phone number and find out your name that way somehow.

Instead of Big Brother coming true in 1984, maybe 2014 is more accurate.

[ROF]

Privacy will be diminished if keep giving companies like these the go ahead with such ridiculuos schemes that dont work. Not everyone will want to connect their players to a phone line.

There are alot of reasons why poeple wouldn't want to hook up their players to a phone line. Cornucopia has pretty much given you a reasonable explanation.

Privacy is diminshed on a daily basis. Your only choice to avoid that is to never buy anything, anywhere. Even the pizza place will tell you when you order if you give them a number different from the one you're calling from. Privacy is a nice concept, unfortunately there is no privacy anymore and hasn't been so for quite a long time.

I think if this gets implemented, and that's a big "IF" I think there will have to be alternate solutions to protection of the machinery and the media it plays. The portable media market is huge so an alternate solution would have to be made available.

[bokkasrealm]

Another important thing thats being missed. They can and will shut down your machine if it is found to be playing unauthorized discs! Bye bye $500-$1000 whatever. Plus, what if you are hankering to watch Beetlejuice at 2 am and you put the disc in and their service is down? You cant watch beetlejuice! It's sitting there taunting you! Also, Tivo collects data, they dont stop you from recording, they help you to record. Cable boxes merely update firmware for faster navigation and menu updates. This machine would continually update for protection against copiers in addition to firmware, yadda yadda. Also, HDTV recorders (Blu Ray) will have broadcast flags built into them which will be controlled by this machine too. How could we ever have portable Blu Ray players?

P.S. - Another spec built in to Blue Ray machines is the HDMI output only. No S-Video, no YUV nothing else. So either buy an HDTV or else.

[BJ_M]

they will also at some point have pop up advertising geared to your watching / spending / target habbits ..

that will be a joy to have to wade through ...

[ROF]

they will also at some point have pop up advertising geared to your watching / spending / target habbits ..

that will be a joy to have to wade through ...

Most discs have this now. Alot of ads you can't skip and most certainly the copyright stuff is unskippable. Nothing would change from the current discs accept maybe getting ads for movies and media based on the things you like instead of the things others like to watch.

[ROF]

Another important thing thats being missed. They can and will shut down your machine if it is found to be playing unauthorized discs! Bye bye $500-$1000 whatever.

That sure beats $250,000 fine and 5 years in jail.

[bokkasrealm]

Why exactly are you on this site then ROF? Around here we kinda like to manipulate things, change em up a bit! We dont like to bend over and lick the boots of every corporation and all of their arbitrary rules.