Viability of DVD-RAM for long-term storage

[MissIrisM]

I can't understand the nasty response one user got to what I considered a perfectly legitimate question, but I have questions of my own about DVD-RAM that I'm going to post and hope that most people will be helpful.

I'm a Mac user, and I'm trying to research DVDs and DVD recorders for archiving my videotapes. Now, I've read that for some reason I'm not sure of yet, quality begins with the media, and that for some reason the Japanese are better than Taiwanese. Better how, I don't know, but I'm also reading that even Japanese discs deteriorate and become unplayable over even a short period of time.

So, this tells me that burning to DVD plus-minus-you-name-it will be of no consequence to saving my 20 year old tapes. So should I at least consider DVD-RAM disk for long-term storage, or are they equally as likely to render unplayable over 5 years time?

Thank you in advance for your quality responses, I'm posting in other forums to see the kind of answers I get.

[ha13may]

Hi!

I have been burning DVD-Rs and DVD-RWs for around 2 years now. I've never used DVD-RAM but I have been investigating for a couple of months now on its reliability. So far I've found out that it is very very reliable. Even if you do a simple google search for 'DVD-RAM reliability' you will find a wealth of information. This is due to the way it is constructed and the way data is written to it. It is virtually defect free based on my previous sentence. Though I have never used it I would trust it completely and blindly with my data (obviously with data backed up somewhere else also). I used to work for a document management company with lots of big clients. All their daily data handling was done with DVD-RAM discs. Because one generation of discs are in cartridges also, they should be safe also. I was going to buy a LG dvd-writer with DVD-RAM writing but I just heard one of the Pioneer 110 models will write to DVD-RAM. If that is correct then WOHOOOO!. My 105 needs upgrading now.

I have had so much headache with DVD-RW that I simply do not trust it anymore for data. I do ocassionally use it for watching movies but data, no way. Even with DVD-R I now only trust Japanese TDK, after that I 'would' trust TAIYO YUDEN.

There is a website mentioned in the forums, I think it is called 'nomorecoasters.com'. Do give the website a read, some good information there.

My 3 simple peices of advice.

1. For DVD-R trust TDK and TAIYO YUDEN
2. Do trust DVD-RAM ( I would trust panasonic and brand name ones, not Ridisc DVD-RAM. Just my opinion)
3. As someone said in one of the threads on this site, Never throw your source away. In future there will always be some technology which will transfer your 'video' much better than today.

Any mistakes, feel free to correct me.

[handyguy]

I used some DVD-RAM for 28 months & finally threw them out when they wouldn't format.

[pippas]

Of the rewriteable formats, DVD RAM is the only one I have never had any problems with. We use it all the time on the DVD recorder, and I use it for data backup.

Not very scientific, but it just 'feels' right - something that the other formats, -RW and +RW just, well, don't!!!

Whether I shall still be of the same opinion in 10 years time.....????

[MissIrisM]

Hi guys, and thank you all for your helpfulness!

ha13may: Your points are well taken. Am I wrong, but isn't Taiyo Yuden a maker and not a brand? I never see this in the stores I go to. I use Fuji and Maxell for my CDs, I'm hoping their DVDs are good. My brother's Ritek discs are made in India of all places...I don't know what to tell him about their quality, but anyway.. I agree about the Google searching, and don't think I haven't been! That's how I found this site to start with. Thanks so much for the tip on the "nomorecoasters.com" site! With a name like that, it's bound to be useful!

I have to say, though, that never throwing the source away is a big problem, because that is, of course, the goal. I wouldn't even be considering burning to disc if I were just going to keep the tapes. The tapes, some of which I made in 1988, are showing signs of wear, and the next and last time I want to play them is when I get their data on something PERMANENT. Well, relatively permanent.

So you see, I'm trying to decide on whether I should burn to DVD-RAM for long-term storage or else find some way to digitize the video to a hard drive. I'd need these "master files" to not deteriorate over time, if you know what I mean. This way, if I should need or want to make something that would play on my dedicated DVD player, I would then need to pull what's on the hard drive or DVD-RAM disk and convert it to some sort of DVD-video format somehow and burn it to DVD±R.

I was drawn to DVD-RAM for this purpose because of ease, frankly. I figured it would be easier to pull the RAM disk out of the DVD recorder and put it in the computer than it would be to hook the TIVO or other hard drive-equipped recorder to the computer and upload files that way through its USB port.

Panasonic, Maxell, and Fuji all have DVD-RAM discs with Fuji being the most expensive. I had learned that the banks had been archiving on DVD-RAM because they supposedly last 30 years, which is of course plenty long enough for me! (It's not like I'm passing this stuff down to the grandkids, after all).

On the other hand, just now I read one of the sticky notes in the media forum and learned that it may be the re-writeability of the media that kills its longevity. This could change my thinking, since supposedly an archive is safest if it's on one of the write-once media. (From an intuitive standpoint, this makes a lot of sense.) Handyguy, that may explain why your DVD-RAM finally failed. It's probably like when I used to use the same cassette tape over and over again until finally nothing was intelligible on it.

I understand where you're coming from, too, pippas; this is all too new for us laypeople to know what to trust, and changing daily. Sometimes "gut feeling" is as good as any! The longevity figures given, one site I found for a library said look for 100 year life expectancy, and here's the catch, FOR PROPERLY HANDLED MEDIA. For Joe and Jane Blow who do anything but handle the media properly what does that mean? Remember when they said CDs were indestructible?!

Maybe no rewriteable media should be used for archival purposes; so that means unless the DVD-RAM is used minimally I'm better off saving my digitized video to a 300GB hard drive and just copying off/converting what I need on an as needed basis. What do you guys think?

I shouldn't need to get a master's in Engineering Physics to archive a tape. (I already have a bachelor's...it doesn't help.) All the information available makes one's head spin! This is why it's such a big help to get accounts from plain, ordinary people who use this stuff everyday. So I appreciate everybody's input, thanks.

Ha13may, I do like your 3 pieces of advice. I wish all such answers were formatted that way. Do this, don't do that, use this and this from this source, and don't buy that, the you should be OK!
Unfortunately, it's just not that easy, is it?!

Anyway, thanks to all of you. You guys are helping me think a lot of stuff through.

Iris