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  1. Member DNICE_ONE's Avatar
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    Hi!

    I am a newbie and want to capture all of my family videos to DVD. I have been reading the forum for quite sometime now and what I have been able to understand (if I am right) is that a TBC is always good to have when capturing from VHS.

    I have three questions.

    1. Is it always necessary to have a standalone full frame TBC or the built-in TBC on some S-VHS VCRs be enough?

    2. I have come across many forum threads where members have described the Canopus ADVC 300 to be one of the best converters because of its built-in LTBC and DNR cuircuits which produce good quality and also a reasonable price. If I bought this device then will I still need to have my tapes played on a VCR with built-in TBC or a standalone TBC or can I getaway with only an ordinary S-VHS VCR?

    3. I live in the UK where almost all video equipment come equiped with the SCART sockets for connectivity (as my old JVC HR-J670EK VCR). How advisable is to use this VCR for playback with a SCART to S-VIDEO adapter installed? Are there any quality loss issues involved with these kind of adapters or is it advisable to use a VCR which has an S-VIDEO socket?

    Thanks in advance.
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  2. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Canopus ADVC 300 is ridiculous. For $500, you're getting financially raped. It's nothing more than a mere DV box, and the "digital" TBC (as it was once described) is suspect. Pass on this crap and invest that $500 more wisely.

    A good VCR (high end S-VHS unit with TBC and full filter) will fix most tape issues, and prevent most dropped frame issues. It cleans the picture, and then cleans a chunk of the signal.

    Picture and signal are separate concepts. You see the picture, you don't see the signal.

    For harsh signal errors (including anti-copy garbage), you need a full TBC, a separate unit. It does not clean the picture. It cleans the signal.

    That explain things better?

    You can buy a brand new JVC SR-V101US for $270 at B&H and the the remaining $230 you can spend on a good DVD recorder or nice capture card.

    There is no need to be fleeced by Canopus. You're only buying their name, not a super product.

    If you need a TBC, they are new for a couple bucks under $200.

    If you buy all this stuff used (take advantage of eBay), there is still a chance it can all be gotten for $500-600 total.
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  3. Member thecoalman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf

    You can buy a brand new JVC SR-V101US for $270 at B&H and the the remaining $230 you can spend on a good DVD recorder or nice capture card.
    LS having said that, the Canopus ADVC 110 makes a nice compliment to a good VCR. Or something comparable, even a new DV cam with pass thru if your in the market.
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  4. Member DNICE_ONE's Avatar
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    You can buy a brand new JVC SR-V101US for $270 at B&H and the the remaining $230 you can spend on a good DVD recorder or nice capture card.
    Tyanks for your helpful reply. As I mentioned that I live in the UK where I don't know if I will be able to get the above model.

    I have come across the JVC SR-V10EK which is actually meant for the PAL B countries but is also available in the UK (PAL I). Will it work for my purpose? This VCR is also equipped with S-VIDEO sockets.

    Lastly, what do you mean by a nice capture card? Can you please quote any models?

    Thanks
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  5. Member DNICE_ONE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by thecoalman
    LS having said that, the Canopus ADVC 110 makes a nice compliment to a good VCR. Or something comparable, even a new DV cam with pass thru if your in the market.
    So you mean to say that if I had a good VCR with TBC and filters then I can use any Analogue to Digital converter or just ADVC 110?
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  6. Member DNICE_ONE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    You can buy a brand new JVC SR-V101US for $270 at B&H and the the remaining $230 you can spend on a good DVD recorder or nice capture card.
    Can you please tell me who makes the best DVD recorders and which particular models?
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  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Any JVC or Pioneer DVD recorder is good. JVC is my #1 choice, ESPECIALLY when working with tapes. Most LiteOn DVD recorders are good using composite/s-video input. Tuner is not so great.

    Canopus ADVC is a decent DV device. Good VCR will feed it clean quality signal and picture.

    JVC SR-V10EK will work on tapes fine, only the tuner is region specific (I, B, etc). JVC HR-S7965EK is for UK, if you can find on. 7955. 8955, 8965, 8900 .. all of them are made in Germany for sale in UK market.
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  8. If by family videos you mean camcorder tapes you shot yourself (not commercial VHS movies that are copy protected), you can probably get by with a high quality S-VHS VCR for tape playback and a name brand DVD recorder.

    The JVC S-VHS VCR's that LS mentioned are going to be the best bet because they have a built in line TBC/DNR filter that is excellent. These JVC units produce VHS playback image quality that is hard to beat.

    The brand new hard drive equipped Pioneer DVD recorders (in the US these would be the DVR-531/533/633 models) have a comprehensive array of user adjustable video input picture controls and noise filters to further tweak the image quality of your tapes before recording.

    JVC DVD recorders are tops in my book as well for recording noisy VHS sources because of their excellent proprietary video noise filtering, but the Pioneer units offer much more flexibilty in terms of image control and their separate variable Y and C video noise filters are also pretty darn good (better than Sony and Panasonic, for example).
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  9. Member thecoalman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DNICE_ONE
    So you mean to say that if I had a good VCR with TBC and filters then I can use any Analogue to Digital
    You can use any converter, analog is analog. I have a 110 and use it in combo with my JVC VCR and am very happy with the results.
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  10. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DNICE_ONE
    1. Is it always necessary to have a standalone full frame TBC or the built-in TBC on some S-VHS VCRs be enough?
    I have found that a full frame TBC guarantees that my PVR-250 will not skew audio/video sync. For that purpose alone, it was money well spent.

    The TBCs in the JVC SVHS machines do not guarantee uninterrupted sync during dropout/blank regions.
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  11. Member DNICE_ONE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    JVC SR-V10EK will work on tapes fine, only the tuner is region specific (I, B, etc). JVC HR-S7965EK is for UK, if you can find on. 7955. 8955, 8965, 8900 .. all of them are made in Germany for sale in UK market.
    Thanks for the feedback LS. But unfortunaltely I cannot find any of the above JVC models in the UK and I read somewhere that JVC Germany stopped making these models last year.

    The only model available at the moment is the JVC SR-V10EK (JVC Professional range). First it is quite expensive almost 300. Secondly, as you said the tuner is region specific. Does it mean that I cannot record any videos using the PAL I signal I get from my SKY DigiBox in the UK?

    Also, almost all of my tapes were recorded in PAL B so in theory they should play fine on the JVC SR-V10EK, but again the low budget kicks in. The alternative I have been able to find so far is the Panasonic NVSV121EBS (150) which has the TBC and 3D Noise Reduction (is it a true DNR?) but the tuner is PAL I. Will this Panny play my PAL B tapes without any quality issues?

    Any help would be appreciated.
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  12. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I and B only relate to the tuner.

    Once it gets on a tape, it's just PAL.
    PAL is PAL on a video tape.
    There is not an I or B or whatever.
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  13. Member ntscuser's Avatar
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    DNICE_ONE,

    I live in the UK. I have a Panasonic NV-HS950 with built in TBC and 3D-DNR. In my experience for these to be effective the original signal would have to be so bad you wouldn't want to use them anyway, ie: worn-out ex-rental tapes. Also you can't use both at the same time.

    Most of my friends use Panasonic E-50 or similar DVD rcorders. These have a built-in TBC which they all swear produces better recordings than the VHS original. For MacroVision protected tapes you need a separate video stabiliser which is becoming harder and harder to find in the UK.

    You can't use an adapter lead to convert Scart composite to S-video, you will get interference patterns all over the picture. My advice is to buy any S-VHS player (with or without TBC/DNR) which has a sharp picture output. I say that because many of those sold in the UK are out of alignment and few people know how to adjust them. Plus any Panasonic DVD recorder.
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  14. Member DNICE_ONE's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

    As far as a full frame TBC is concerned how good do you think the Datavideo TBC-3000 is?

    I have found a used one for sale in the UK for PAL system. I checked the specs but it does not have any external audio connectors. Also I read that it can be used in connection with an eidtor such as the Datavideo SE200 which can be used for the audio part of the processing.

    Can this TBC3000+SE200 setup be used with an analogue to digital converter ? If yes, then will there be any audio/video sync problems? Any feedback? Thanks.
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  15. Member BrainStorm69's Avatar
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    The DataVideo TBC-3000 is a good TBC. You are correct, there are no audio connectors. You don't need any. If a TBC does have audio connectors, normally all it is doing is passing through audio. It isn't actually doing anything to it. The TBC-3000 will help you to avoid synch problems by eliminating dropped video frames. You don't need the SE200 unless you are mixing from two different sources.
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  16. Member Theresa's Avatar
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    "If by family videos you mean camcorder tapes you shot yourself (not commercial VHS movies that are copy protected), you can probably get by with a high quality S-VHS VCR for tape playback and a name brand DVD recorder."


    Hello all--
    I'm a total newbie here and have been reading a great deal here and at doom9. I have huge amounts of analoge camcorder tapes in need of conversion to DVD and have been looking for the best way to get this done. I'm not sure if my computer is beefy enough for the job, though I'm willing to get it there. I do want to edit the many times I forgot to turn off the camera and filmed my feet and I would like to put in chapters. Is the above the best way to go? Would I get as good quality DVD's as if I went to the trouble to do this through my computer? Thanks much in advance!
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  17. Member ntscuser's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Theresa
    "If by family videos you mean camcorder tapes you shot yourself (not commercial VHS movies that are copy protected), you can probably get by with a high quality S-VHS VCR for tape playback and a name brand DVD recorder."


    Hello all--
    I'm a total newbie here and have been reading a great deal here and at doom9. I have huge amounts of analoge camcorder tapes in need of conversion to DVD and have been looking for the best way to get this done. I'm not sure if my computer is beefy enough for the job, though I'm willing to get it there. I do want to edit the many times I forgot to turn off the camera and filmed my feet and I would like to put in chapters. Is the above the best way to go? Would I get as good quality DVD's as if I went to the trouble to do this through my computer? Thanks much in advance!
    Judging by a friend's results, no. He uses a pair of Panasonic S-VHS recorders (without control deck) plus a pair of Panasonic DVD recorders and edits the programmes on RAM disc before making copies on his PC. The editing is very crude indeed.

    You need either a very good editing deck or a very good editing suite for the PC and considerable experience of using either.
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  18. Member Theresa's Avatar
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    ntscuser, thanks for replying. I have bought two program/card suites, Pinnacle and Dazzle, took Pinnacle back after reading bad reviews, have Dazzle sitting here in a sack ready to take back for the same reasons. I read so many conflicting viewpoints and proceedures, I getting pretty discouraged. I'm slowly catching on to all the techno-jargan and abbrivations. I'm willing to through the trial and error part of this; I just don't want to throw away tons of $$$ before figuring out the best hardware/software to use, as well as finding out my computer isn't capable of the process to begin with! I know I'll need another hardrive, and I have a USB2 port. Stupid question, but what is example of an editing deck? And what would be a good editing suite to use? I don't need all the whistles and bells--just as clean as transfer as possible and a little clean up afterwards if needed, chapters and maybe titles. Thanks again for your advice!
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  19. Member ntscuser's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Theresa
    ntscuser, thanks for replying. I have bought two program/card suites, Pinnacle and Dazzle, took Pinnacle back after reading bad reviews, have Dazzle sitting here in a sack ready to take back for the same reasons. I read so many conflicting viewpoints and proceedures, I getting pretty discouraged. I'm slowly catching on to all the techno-jargan and abbrivations. I'm willing to through the trial and error part of this; I just don't want to throw away tons of $$$ before figuring out the best hardware/software to use, as well as finding out my computer isn't capable of the process to begin with! I know I'll need another hardrive, and I have a USB2 port. Stupid question, but what is example of an editing deck? And what would be a good editing suite to use? I don't need all the whistles and bells--just as clean as transfer as possible and a little clean up afterwards if needed, chapters and maybe titles. Thanks again for your advice!
    You're welcome. This is not my area of expertise I'm aftraid. Most manufacturers make a control unit which fits between two of their VHS/S-VHS recorders and allows more precise edits to be made. It takes the place of a pair of remote handsets but is connected by wires. They are also very expensive.

    My definition of a 'good editing suite' would be one that is simple to use and has a fast learning curve. (There is no point in buyoing an elaborate system that takes years to learn how to use properly). I suggest searching the "tools" section of this website for software that is best suited to your needs.
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  20. Member Theresa's Avatar
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    Thanks, ntscuser. Good advice. I will follow through.[/quote]
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  21. Member DNICE_ONE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrainStorm69
    The DataVideo TBC-3000 is a good TBC. You are correct, there are no audio connectors. You don't need any. If a TBC does have audio connectors, normally all it is doing is passing through audio. It isn't actually doing anything to it. The TBC-3000 will help you to avoid synch problems by eliminating dropped video frames. You don't need the SE200 unless you are mixing from two different sources.
    Thanks BrainStorm69 for your feedback.

    But one thing I am still not sure of which is that if the video is comming from TBC 3000 and audio is directly coming from the VCR into the A/D converter then is there a possibility of a slight delay in the video signal from the TBC (because of the video processing in the TBC) making the resulting A/V signal to the A/D Cconverter out of sync?
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  22. Well I have the TBC-1000 between my JVC S-VHS and my Pioneer 531H DVD recorder and never noticed any sync problems. My personal feeling is that any good quality TBC will be fast enough to not affect sync.

    If you do a search of the forum I do not think you will any sync problems caused by a TBC.

    In fact if your tape is in bad shape a TBC may help with sync problems. I had tapes that had some dropouts and without the TBC the recorder would detect the dropout and stop recording. With the TBC they recorded as one recording and I could then choose to edit out the dropouts or leave them in.

    Cheers
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  23. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DNICE_ONE
    But one thing I am still not sure of which is that if the video is comming from TBC 3000 and audio is directly coming from the VCR into the A/D converter then is there a possibility of a slight delay in the video signal from the TBC (because of the video processing in the TBC) making the resulting A/V signal to the A/D Cconverter out of sync?
    The video delay through the TBC-3000 will always be less than or equal to one frame; 1/30th of a second maximum.

    I don't think you will notice that.
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  24. Member DNICE_ONE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davideck
    The video delay through the TBC-3000 will always be less than or equal to one frame; 1/30th of a second maximum.

    I don't think you will notice that.
    If this video delay time remains constant (i.e 1/30th NTSC or 1/25 PAL) throughout the whole length of the video (which could be upto 4 hours) only then it may be un-noticeable.

    But if it accumulates during the transfer then by the time the transfer ends it will be so much out of sync that the video may become un-watchable.

    Thanks for all the input everyone has given on this thread. I really appreciate it. I have been able to buy a used DataVideo TBC 3000 and am looking for a decent capture card. As soon as I get it I will try my first capture. Thanks everyone.
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  25. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DNICE_ONE
    But if it accumulates during the transfer then by the time the transfer ends it will be so much out of sync that the video may become un-watchable.
    It does not accumulate. It merely introduces an offset in time between the video source and the capture device.
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  26. Member Dr_Layne's Avatar
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    The Datavideo TBC-1000 has audio passthru. I don't know if the audio is offset with the video or if it's a straight pass thru, but I've never perceived any synch issues with mine.

    Steve Bennett
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  27. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dr_Layne
    The Datavideo TBC-1000 has audio passthru. I don't know if the audio is offset with the video or if it's a straight pass thru, but I've never perceived any synch issues with mine.

    Steve Bennett
    The audio path is a straight active buffer passthru.
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  28. Member Theresa's Avatar
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    Quick question for LS: So, in using a good JVC VCR with built in TBC, should one use a Canopus DV or not? It seems like you advise not to, yet later you say that they are alright. Any advice?
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    7 years later, and I wonder if anyone who posted in this thread is around. (I was not an original poster to this thread.) I had to shelf my "someday" task of converting tapes (VHS and S-VHS) to digital for these years. But I now have a need to do some of them. I do have a seldom-used JVC SR-V101US. I've used it with TBC and DNR on. The DNR really helps with the Mpeg2 capture card I'm using (Dazzle DVCII). It helps by cutting down video noise.

    But I have to save this deck to use only for S-VHS tapes. Yes, it works great with VHS, but I have tons of VHS and don't want to wear out the more expensive deck "wasting" it on mere VHS. So a few years back, I found at a thrift store a low-used Toshiba VHS VCR. It needs new belts and pinch roller (every VCR does eventually) which I will get a local video repairman to do, but can play okay for now. Really nice picture. But obviously there's no TBC. I DO have 2 TBC cards (I forget the make/model) in my old Amiga 2500 in storage.

    I have found that the DVCII seems to have some sort of line-based TBC function on it's input that's undocumented. Evidence is that it DOES clean up horizontal jitter as only a TBC could do (on a line by line basis - just a 1 line buffer I'm sure). But sometimes the tape will have a bad enough dropout that the DVCII goes black for a bit, or goes black and kicks out some kind of message saying "protected video". This might mess up the whole capture process. I want to consider using the outboard full-frame TBC to avoid this. But I am concerned about the inherent delay that this will introduce. Any full-frame TBC has to introduce this, as being full-frame, it loads a whole frame before lining up all the lines in it, then outputting it with all horizontal lines re-synced as well as cleaning up the vertical-sync pulse after each frame. So I would think the delay would be somewhere between 1 frame and 2 frames worth (.033 to .067 seconds). I read years ago that most people are not bothered by audio sync errors of that magnitude. But I *am*. The audio will come thru "live", but the video will have this delay.

    Theoretically, this is not an obstacle, as with Mpeg2, I can demux the program stream into separate video and audio files, then remux them back together introducing a positive or negative delay as needed. But I don't know how to determine just how much delay there is for a particular capture. (Ears aren't THAT perfect.) A line-TBC would delay only 1 or 2 lines (negligible), but a full-frame TBC is either up to a whole frame (.033 sec) or is between 1 and 2 frames (I suspect the latter). And I would think it would be a crap shoot as to how much it would be in each case. (But for each case, the delay would be constant throughout, except when you hit a vertical sync glitch which would create a new delay value.)

    Does anyone have any thoughts as to how I could know how much delay is being introduced in a particular capture, so I can correct it "right on the money"?? I appreciate any thoughts expressed. I will assume that in most cases, I'll have no vertical sync glitches. (Any "snow" would mean "time to start a new capture".)

    One thing is for sure, I would not be using an external sync source as I would if I was using both TBCs to merge 2 tapes (A-B roll edit). So the sync source is the incoming video itself, not an external sync.
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  30. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    I think you should try an entirely different capture device, and see how it goes. Dazzle isn't a popular brand on these forums AFAICT, so with something else you might not need an external TBC.

    This thread is interesting...
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/224314-Does-TBC-affect-Audio-Sync

    also this...
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/269590-Datavideo-TBC-1000-audio-inputs-question

    If you are encoding a DVD, you can flag the audio delay - no need to change the actual audio (the DVD player will make the change during playback).

    You could check the actual delay at a given point (accepting it will change) using an audio sync test card (record it to VHS and play it back).

    Cheers,
    David.

    P.S. I'd forget about S-VHS vs VHS tapes - do the most important tapes on the best machine. First.
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