Katrina

[MOVIEGEEK]

Thye were told to bring 3 days of food and water with them to the Superdome. I see little evidence of them actually doing that. Plus most of them are probably fat anyway.

NOT funny dude.
These people had nothing to begin with,the lucky ones had cars and friends to stay with.The people at the Superdome and convention center were told to go there by the government and were forgotten...a total disgrace.

[lordsmurf]

What kind of silly non-sense are some of you guys thinking?

The mayor of New York lost a couple buildings in a couple blocks. The mayor of New Orleans lost his entire city to the ocean, as have mayors in outlying towns in surround La. and Miss. areas. There is no doubt both are tragic, but there is simply no comparison.

Outside help was needed, and those in charge have lolligagged. I also have no idea who taught you how the government works, but you're flat wrong in thinking invitations are necessary. The federal/national government is responsible for helping in disasters like this.

Having a certain top official walking around destroyed Mississippi walking around and say "gee, this looks bad" and giving out hugs was thoroughly disgusting. Hugs are for later. And then waiting on "permission" from the congress to go and take action and spend money was by far the most stupid thing I have ever seen in my life. Did he think they would say "no"?

We need more people like the mayor of New Orleans. He's gonna cuss and yell all day until he gets action. Not lying with "everything is gonna be alright" and "help is on the way" crap.

FIVE DAYS AND PEOPLE ARE STILL THERE? I have friend and family that I have not heard from in a week now. I'd go there myself and help, but I don't how (plus they'd not let me in), as I'm not military or government. I was under the assumption that's why I paid my taxes, to fund those that DO HAVE THIS JOB!

I know for a fact that on Friday (FRIDAY!) some U.S. Marshalls were called in to curb looting and violence, so rescue can be peaceful (by the way, the command is "shoot to kill"). It took them that long? Who the hell was asleep at the wheel for the past week? Were they on vacation? Long lunch?

[lordsmurf]

While this topic is undoubtedly going to be tied to politics, if it gets out of hand, it will be locked.

[MOVIEGEEK]

I think there's a thing called federalism ... and State's Rights in this country. I don't believe the federal government can march into a city and take control without an invitation from the state. There's plenty of blame to go around ... but the responsibility squarely lies on the mayor and then the governor ...

Unless you want to use the aftermath of Katrina to give the federal government the power to go in and take over a city whenever they feel it's necessary ... I'm don't want a federal government with that kind of power

I'm confused,first you blame the local and state government then you blame the feds.The last time I checked NO(and the gulf states) are part of the US and it's in the constitution for the federal government to protect it's citizens.I agree that the response since Monday has been a disgrace but I believe the feds should have control of the situation.
@modsorry if too political.

[lordsmurf]

@moviegeek, Red Cross can be largely worthless at times, at least in the past few years, if you've ever been in a natural disaster. They are pretty sloppy too. Your real heroes are locals, usually churches, medical/fire/police, as well as service organizations in the city and colleges. The problem, however, is many of these are unable to do anything in a flooded environment.

[lordsmurf]

In regards to comments about living below sea level, sure I agree, but it's rather pointless.

Everywhere on the planet can suffer disaster. You may not have hurricanes on your menu of problems, but you can bet you'll have any number of issues to deal with:

earthquakes
tornadoes
mudslides
dust storms
blizzards
droughts
tsunamis
hurricanes
floods
high winds
electrical storms
severe heat
severe cold

[rkr1958]

but the responsibility squarely lies on the mayor and then the governor

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with you on that premise.

I guess you're right ... This tragedy was beyond the mayor and governors skill set to manage ... They needed a leader ... The sad truth is that their lack of skills cost and will still cost 1000's of lives ... That's the cold hard truth ... They needed a Rudy Giuliani

[shelbyGT]

I doubt Rudy could have done any better. As lordsmurf said... he lost some buildings, while NO lost an entire city.

They just needed a centralized command to take charge sooner (ahem... I thought that was FEMA's job and Homeland Security. Looks like they dropped the ball).

[thecoalman]

I guess you're right ... This tragedy was beyond the mayor and governors skill set to manage ... They needed a leader ... The sad truth is that their lack of skills cost and will still cost 1000's of lives ... That's the cold hard truth ... They needed a Rudy Giuliani

They have been begging for assistance since this happened. They don't have.....never had....the resources to even begin to cope with something like this. The only ones that do are the federal government. How you can lay blame on them is beyond me for the response to the aftermath of this storm.

What if this had been a terrorist attack that had caused similar devestation where they would have had no time to prepare for it. It makes me feel real good that if that happened in my area I could expect some relief from my federal government within what?.....6 or 7 days??????

[rkr1958]

I guess you're right ... This tragedy was beyond the mayor and governors skill set to manage ... They needed a leader ... The sad truth is that their lack of skills cost and will still cost 1000's of lives ... That's the cold hard truth ... They needed a Rudy Giuliani

They have been begging for assistance since this happened. They don't have.....never had....the resources to even begin to cope with something like this. The only ones that do are the federal government. How you can lay blame on them is beyond me for the response to the aftermath of this storm.

What if this had been a terrorist attack that had caused similar devestation where they would have had no time to prepare for it. It makes me feel real good that if that happened in my area I could expect some relief from my federal government within what?.....6 or 7 days??????

The mayor of NO did get 400 tourist out yesterday that we staying downtown at the Hyatt across for where he was staying. He got buses in downtown to get them out and get them to the Superdome. When they got there he put them at the front of the line, ahead of his own citizens who had been waiting for days to get on buses, and got them out of NO. Funny how he got that organized but still can't do anything for his own townpeople at the Convention Center, who haven't seen a bus stop there yet.

If only Rudy ...

[shelbyGT]

Wow... do you have a picture of Rudy by your bedstand or something?

[rkr1958]

Wow... do you have a picture of Rudy by your bedstand or something?

A signed one ... How did you know?

[MackemX]

you seen the mother who lost her 2 year old kid on a bus after being pushed over?

[Conquest10]

If only Rudy...

Yeah, I doubt he would do any better. You cannot compare 4-5 buildings with a whole entire city. You just can't.

[ZAPPER]

Yea blame the government,
The government made those folks move into that city.
The government never warned them about what might happen.
The government should be able to move a million people at the drop of a hat.
The government should be able to feed them and rehouse them and get them their jobs back and make everything all better, or better yet, the government should have stopped the rain and wind.

Who are these government people anyways? And where do they get off doing such a poor job? Oh yea, "We the people" Garbage in, garbage out. Blame anyone but yourself. I've had it. No pity. Natural selection is a process of nature and so is extinction.


Yea, give me the "A hole" of the year award. But I will take the heat for my actions.

[lordsmurf]

Unless geography has magically changed, your state of Georgia could just as easily have had some of it's cities erased too. You also sit in "hurricane alley".

Had this been Savannah, GA, I bet you'd have another tune.

[DiablosuX102]

I live north of Houston (Woodlands area) and just got home from a Red Cross sight and they have received a few families so far and are expecting another bus full tomorrow. The people who I have talked to are very shook up and in need of help.

@Zapper, Yes, you have definitely won the "A Hole" of the year award. Such comments you should just keep to yourself. They are people who have lost their friends, families, jobs, house, and the rest of their usual surroundings. Not giving a shit is your own problem. However I do agree with you about people blaming the government.

Josh

[lordsmurf]

Some of you "don't blame the government" people need a serious dose of reality.

Go here: http://www.arng.army.mil/about_us/aiding_america.asp

Read the page.

The Army National Guard's state mission is perhaps the most visible and well known. Nearly everyone has seen or heard of Guard units responding to battle fires or helping communities deal with floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, snowstorms or other emergency situations. In times of civil unrest, the citizens of a state can rest assured that the Guard will be ready to respond, if needed.

This is what they are for. They did not do their job. All of the people in charge of commanding these units need to have their ass called out. That goes to the very top of the chain of command.

[thecoalman]

This is what they are for. They did not do their job. All of the people in charge of commanding these units need to have their ass called out. That goes to the very top of the chain of command.

That too would be blaming the wrong people. Guard only does what it's asked to do, the real blame IMO would have to lie with the FEMA. They are the opnes who are supposed to coordinate and act on such catastrophes such as directing the military on what needs to be done.

This also brings a interesting question, I wonder if any of this was caused by the military being stretched too thin. I know they mentioned that a Guard unit near NO was in IRAQ. Ironically they are coming home in a few days. I'm also aware that Ft. McClellan in Alabama was recently closed, that was quite a large military installation.

Regardless if given the order they should have easily been able to have a few thousand troops and the supplies needed within a day or two after the storm maximum. Guess we'll find out in a few months.

[lordsmurf]

That too would be blaming the wrong people. Guard only does what it's asked to do, the real blame IMO would have to lie with the FEMA.

That's what I'm talking about.
FEMA and even those above them (shrub and co).

[MOVIEGEEK]

There's plenty of blame to go around but I think the city of NO is the worst,city officials didn't call for an evacution until the feds told them too...BTW...50% of the cities police force resigned already.
I also think the National Guard should NOT be used overseas,the founding fathers wanted the Guard to be used for civil defense.

[ZAPPER]

Well so much for the shock effect. I fear that some have missed the finer points.

Where I live often feels minor effects of these storms, so when I hear when one is a brewing I run down a mental checklist. Got gas for the generator and vehicles? check. Got enough food in the frezer and pantry? check. Barns battened down? Batteries? Flashlights? And so on. Now I know that the site I have chosen will not end up under water unless the see level comes up some eight hundred feet. And I accecpt that I will loose a couple of trees and maybe even have one land on my house, but that is what the chainsaw and tarps are for (provided that I don't get killed or injured) I have never had the police come down my road or knock on my door and tell me to leave, but if they ever do, I am leaving.

When the storm has passed, and I am still alive, I check out the place, assey anything that I need to do and put it on the list of things to do. Granted that I have never witnessed anything of the magnatude of Katrina, but I will not blame anyone but myself because I like the trees around my house and run the risk of one falling on us.

Yes, there are people in the government that have a specific job to do when such things happen, and if they where able to perform their job and didn't then they should get blame and suffer whatever penalty there is for their failure. To throw out a blanket "blame the government" excuse shows just how out of touch with reality people are. We made the government, we choose those who govern us, we made the laws, we are the government. If the government failed, then we failed, all of the way down to the victom.

Another issue that I have that quickly becomes a rant, is putting blame on any man or woman that puts on a uniform to serve their community, local, state or nation. These are people that for the most part take a job that could very well get them dead. Police know that the uniform alone is a target for head cases. Firefighters know that there is associated risk with their work. And those in the military know that they may become cannon fodder for something as abstract as our ideas. All of those in uniform have a chain of command and orders that are to be obeyed for many reasons. And still they will often break these to help others. I will not fault some buck private in the motor pool for sitting in his truckful of food for not moving an inch until he is ordered. He is doing his job. I will not fauld a gaurdsman for shooting a looter or not shooting a looter if he is within the bounds of following his orders and can tell the difference between those trying to profit and those trying to live.

Time to suck it up and take some of the blame ourselves. And what are you doing to help those to let themselves get in this situation?

[BJ_M]

Thye were told to bring 3 days of food and water with them to the Superdome. I see little evidence of them actually doing that. Plus most of them are probably fat anyway.

NOT funny dude.
These people had nothing to begin with,the lucky ones had cars and friends to stay with.The people at the Superdome and convention center were told to go there by the government and were forgotten...a total disgrace.

Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

[ZAPPER]

What is in the photo? A hundred or so buses that could have, should have, would have been used to evacuate those without the means to go themselves?

Yes, hindsight is 20/20 and surely heads will roll, but heads should be hanging in shame for the folks that let themselves get into this spot before they start screaming that they where wronged.

The damage is mostly done on this one, but what about next time? Will anyone be prepared?

I had a professor write on the chalkboard every day "There is no substitution for daily preperation" and every day I copied that phrase down into my note book. If it was worth his effort to write on the chalkboard, it was important enough for me to write in my notebook. Finally the last day of class and the final exam date he wrote on the chalkboard "It is too late for daily preperation, Panic!, Cram!"

After seven years in scouting I somehow learned two words. "Be Prepared"

After 20 years of working in the chaos of the construction feild I learned three words "Deal with it"

I will take the "A-hole award" But what you must learn from my "Shock value" post is that you are responcible for your own life and those under your care. Decide carefully what you will do with your life.

[lordsmurf]

After seven years in scouting I somehow learned two words. "Be Prepared"

You learned nothing as a scout, then, I'm afraid: www.goodturnforamerica.org, and I find those comments shameful and disturbing coming from a supposed former scout.

NO citizens and local leadership did what it considered best. While it was ultimately a mistake, it remains nothing more than that, a mistake. The national guard reinforcements did not make a mistake, they were outright mismanaged and sloppy. There is a difference between "mistake" and "negligence".

I dare you to go to one of the NOLA related sites and say something like this. You'll get your ass handed to you on a plate, and rightly so. The "blame the citizens" guff. Try www.nola.com or www.wwltv.com

[ZAPPER]

After seven years in scouting I somehow learned two words. "Be Prepared"

You learned nothing as a scout, then, I'm afraid: www.goodturnforamerica.org, and I find those comments shameful and disturbing coming from a supposed former scout. I doubt you made Eagle.

I had, I hoped, bowed out of this one.

I suspect that my words are not of the kindest nature. But I doubt that I shamed or embarrased the BSA for speaking my my mind in as non-political nature as I could. The point was to "Be prepared". And I have not been officially affilated for quite awhile. I learned much from scouting, and can say with pride that my ability to stand on my own two feet is in no small part from my scouting expeirence. The "good turns' that I do are hardly worth mentioning other than to say they are more of second nature events in my life. Paramedic training, ecology-conservation efforts, help with building housing and cash donations. No I never made Eagle Scout. I stopped working on my own advancement at the age of 14 or 15 when I joined the Leadreship Corps and put my efforts into helping others more than myself. I worked several years at a summer camp helping others and worked on many a service project. I was not aware of the program that you linked to, but it looks to me like it keeps with the highest traditions of scouting.

I highly value your input to this site and your own, but I doubt that I would try to judge your charactor from what I read here only. I will admit that associating any negative opinion that I have on any subject with the BSA was phax-pa, but you didn't really need to bring more attention to it. Nor I by continuing on. I suspect that the BSA will stand on its own and evolve to meet the needs of the future for our youth with or without me or you.

[Jester700]

I had a professor write on the chalkboard every day "There is no substitution for daily preperation" and every day I copied that phrase down into my note book. If it was worth his effort to write on the chalkboard, it was important enough for me to write in my notebook. Finally the last day of class and the final exam date he wrote on the chalkboard "It is too late for daily preperation, Panic!, Cram!"

One might have thought, with roughly 180 repetitions of writing the phrase that one of you would have figured out how to spell "preparation"...

[ZAPPER]

I had a professor write on the chalkboard every day "There is no substitution for daily preperation" and every day I copied that phrase down into my note book. If it was worth his effort to write on the chalkboard, it was important enough for me to write in my notebook. Finally the last day of class and the final exam date he wrote on the chalkboard "It is too late for daily preperation, Panic!, Cram!"

One might have thought, with roughly 180 repetitions of writing the phrase that one of you would have figured out how to spell "preparation"...

I didn't say that I grade..graud...gradeuate...passed the class. But thanks anyways.

[CoffeeGuy]

earthquakes -Can cause a lot of damage to any city. Specially if it's 12-15 feet below sea level, and completely surrounded by water

tornadoes - Can cause some damage to any city.Specially if it's 12-15 feet below sea level, and completely surrounded by water

mudslides - could possibly do some damage to a city. Specially if it's 12-15 feet below sea level, and completely surrounded by water

dust storms - not likely to have that much effect on a city. Not even if it's 12-15 feet below sea level.

blizzards - Could do some damage to a city. Specially if it's 12-15 feet below sea level.

droughts - not likely to do any damage to any city. Specially if it's 12-15 feet below sea level, and completely surrounded by water

tsunamis - Could do some real damage to a city. Specially if it's 12-15 feet below sea level, and completely surrounded by water

hurricanes - Could do some real damage to a city. Specially if it's 12-15 feet below sea level, and completely surrounded by water

floods - Could do some real damage to a city. Specially if it's 12-15 feet below sea level, and completely surrounded by water

high winds - see tornados

electrical storms - could do some damage, I guess

severe heat - Just makes life uncomfortable

severe cold - Just makes life uncomfortable

I'd be more willing to compensate the residents of New Orleans some amount of money, than I would, rebuild a city that should be a swamp or a shipyard. And while Lord Smurf is correct in saying, there is no completely safe place to live. Some places are safer than others.

During an electrical storm, you could choose to stand underneath a large tree or in a cave. The smart money is in the cave. But you have a choice.

[CoffeeGuy]

A question to the moderator of this forum. Some time back I made a statement about taxes on petrolium in the city I live in. I was told that discussing politics would not be tollerated in this forum. I was warned and I was quickly marked with a little yellow tag under name. This topic is completely filled with politics. And yet I see I'm still the only one here that is tagged. Could you explain why that is ? I guess you gotta make an example out of someone. And that someone just happened to be me. Can you say "witch hunt" ?