Katrina

[BJ_M]

jealous ?

[BJ_M]

best images on the net - unbelievable

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/graphics/hurricane/hurricane2005/flash.htm?strmName=Ka...rm12&tabName=b


best news

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html (also 24/7 live streaming news and video)
http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/


best link of live links and on the spot reports/blogs (some sent in by SW and sat)

http://www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/archives20050828.shtml#102347
http://www.truthlaidbear.com/topicpage.php?topic=Katrina

NO webcams (not many working - though some are)

http://www.wxnation.com/neworleans/

must read

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf?/washingaway/thebigone_1.html
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/LIX/NPWLIX

[zzyzzx]

I wonder what those people were thinking when the Superdome's roof started ripping off?

They were probbly crapping in their pants.

[zzyzzx]

The only thing we can do is to try and prepare, and from the news coming out, seems as though we didn't do enough in these areas.

In that area though there is only so much you can do. The Army Corps of Engineers has been there for decades building dams, pump stations etc. At some point as Zapper pointed out there is diminishing returns. They build dike that is 10 feet high it cost 10 million if they build it 20 feet it cost 30 million....

It's not the height of the levies that bothers me, it's the width. If you get a storm surge and it goes over, you can always pump it out. If the thing breaks, it brings the problem to a whole new level.

[zzyzzx]

Looks like I found a Kartina related plot for a sequal to Weekend at Bernie's

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.bowie.ap/index.html

[lumis]

it's nice to see that they care so much.

[shelbyGT]

The ramifications of this storm are not even known yet:
economy (the huge factor), people's mindsets, politics (it was inevitable), etc....

welcome to inflation city ya'll!

[BJ_M]

The mayor of NO is ripping a strip off the pres. and fema Last night/this morning (so is CNN) the likes you have never seen ...

btw - there is a class 5 storm going on right now in south china and japan ,,,

[MackemX]

what's going on over there? On the news you see people who haven't eaten for 3 days and such. How is it taking that long to ship in food and aid?

it's unreal that this can happen in the USA of all places as you think they'd be able to handle something of this size better than they are

it's sad to watch

[BJ_M]

it's making many of us Americans ill and very sick of the whole situation ... and plenty worried if a major disaster happens in their area ...

[thecoalman]

what's going on over there? On the news you see people who haven't eaten for 3 days and such. How is it taking that long to ship in food and aid?

Yes, to put it bluntly it's a disgrace. Understandably due to the magnitude and the amount of people involved this isn't going to happen overnight but it's taken entirely too long to even get the basic needs to these people. I'm guessing a lot of heads are going to roll after this.

Watching the news last night and there was a reporter who lived in the area. They were taking a truck of supplies to where he lived, to paraphrase him one of the disaster relief people told him this "Don't worry about it we have it under control"

The supplies he delivered went to people that did not see anyone in the days since this happened. Ironically across the street form a military installation. It also appears from what I've seen and been reading that many of the local religious institutions that were not affected by this are taking up a huge amount of slack.

Monday morning quarterbacking is easy but they should of had military personal, and these disaster relief agencies ready to go in there immediately. Saw the director of FEMA on Nightline....... "we were not prepared........." WTF if you aren't then who is? Ted Koppel was ripping him a new ******* and rightly so. They new the magnitude of what was going to happen shortly before this storm hit, unbelievable what is happening.

Those people shouldn't even be in that situation, most simply didn't have the means to get out. There should ahve been busses, trucks, planes...... whatever means to get them out of there before the storm.

[shelbyGT]

The fact that the FEMA director didn't know there were refugees in the NO convention center until he saw it on the news shows how chaotic this area is. Seriously.... nobody is in charge, and it shows. Bush needs to federalize this whole fiasco and get it under one roof. And quickly.

[thecoalman]

The fact that the FEMA director didn't know there were refugees in the NO convention center until he saw it on the news

I don't know where he learned of it, he was aware of it before that particular broadcast. I do know that they didn't become aware of it until sometime Thursday which is incomprehensible. How can you not be aware of 15,000 .......... or more people.

[shelbyGT]

Regarldess of WHERE he heard of it, yes... the fact he didn't know until yesterday is shameful.

[Webster]

for those that can, please go here to donate....
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate2/

Mods, if you feel this is out of line, please remove this post.....

[shelbyGT]

for those that can, please go here to donate....
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate2/

Mods, if you feel this is out of line, please remove this post.....

Already sent some money to the Red Cross, felt guilty not doing it earlier!

I'm no mod, but I don't see that's out of line.

[Webster]

felt guilty not doing it earlier!

I know that feeling bro.
We were lucky when Katrina flew thru South FL. We only sustained minimal damage. Now looking at NO, it scare the S**t out of me 'cause it could have been us. I'm still remember when Andrew wiped us out. I know what desperation is like when it looks like no one care. I still remember what a treat a can of soda from the red cross taste like in 90 degree heat when you have nothing around for miles

[lordsmurf]

The mayor of NO is ripping a strip off the pres. and fema Last night/this morning (so is CNN) the likes you have never seen ...

btw - there is a class 5 storm going on right now in south china and japan ,,,

The mayor of NO is my hero for the day.

[shelbyGT]

felt guilty not doing it earlier!

I still remember what a treat a can of soda from the red cross taste like in 90 degree heat when you have nothing around for miles

Just like the saying goes, "It's the little things"...

And I think it's hard for anyone who hasn't been through something similar (tornado, hurricane, flood, etc) to realize what goes on in people's minds when they lose everything they have except for their life. And even then... they might have lost that too.

[zzyzzx]

what's going on over there? On the news you see people who haven't eaten for 3 days and such. How is it taking that long to ship in food and aid?

Thye were told to bring 3 days of food and water with them to the Superdome. I see little evidence of them actually doing that. Plus most of them are probably fat anyway.

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning. Your comments are out of line and disgust me to no end.
/ Moderator lordsmurf

[canadateck]

Many most likely could not afford that or being in a situation like this you tend to do things differently. They most likely were more worried about family and friends.Being fat I'm sure had nothing to do with it. Very Low.

[rkr1958]

The mayor of NO is ripping a strip off the pres. and fema Last night/this morning (so is CNN) the likes you have never seen ...

btw - there is a class 5 storm going on right now in south china and japan ,,,

The mayor of NO is my hero for the day.

The mayor of NO failed miserably ... He showed a total lack of leadership. Calling a "SOS" ... what's that about. He's a blamer ... not a leader. The people of New Orleans needed a leader ...

What we need it to save the most people we can. Get them out and get them to some place that they can start to rebuild their life.

[shelbyGT]

80% of his city was under water. Until reinforcements got there... what exactly was he supposed to do? Offer words of encouragement?

I think he did exactly what any normal person seeing what he was seeing would do. ASK FOR HELP AND KEEP YELLING TILL SOMEONE TAKES NOTICE. I respect him for getting "pissed off", I would have done the same.

And don't start comparing 9/11 and how Rudy handled that situation to this... this is most definitely more extreme and harder to handle.

[rkr1958]

80% of his city was under water. Until reinforcements got there... what exactly was he supposed to do? Offer words of encouragement?

I think he did exactly what any normal person seeing what he was seeing would do. ASK FOR HELP AND KEEP YELLING TILL SOMEONE TAKES NOTICE. I respect him for getting "pissed off", I would have done the same.

And don't start comparing 9/11 and how Rudy handled that situation to this... this is most definitely more extreme and harder to handle.

#1) The mayor should have been on the ground with his staff ... after all he's the city's leader ... to assess the situation first hand and inspire the folks still there. #2) He should have been on the ground and telling the affected people exactly what to do, he should have been setting up tents outside the superdome, getting food, water & medicine to those people #3) He should have maintained order ... people "looting" food, water & such is o.k. and allowed ... but looters with firearms or bands attacking emt personnel dealt with severly. #3) evacuate hospitals & nursing homes etc. #5 search & rescue #6) evacuation of those left #7) Specific recommendations & requests to the state and federal govenment on what was need (e.g., communications, security, etc.)

I dare say that if Rudy have been the Mayor you'd see a much different situation there ... New Orleans needed a leader on the ground ... they needed someone is charged telling them exactly what to do.

[Webster]

1) The mayor should have been on the ground with his staff ... after all he's the city's leader ... to assess the situation first hand and inspire the folks still there.

How would you inspire the folks?? Tell them to hang in there? Tell them we have no food, no water, no medicine, no electricity. The water is rising and if you stay in your house, you are going to drown. Also, if you are going to hang around, you problably going to get sick from the contaminated flood water which is rising.......But other than that, everything is just fine and dandy............

#2) He should have been on the ground and telling the affected people exactly what to do, he should have been setting up tents outside the superdome, getting food, water & medicine to those people

Pray tell us where would he get the tents, food, water, and medicine from when 80% of the city is flooded that means there are no supplies in the city. He couldn't just magic them to appear out of thin air, could he??

#3) He should have maintained order ... people "looting" food, water & such is o.k. and allowed ... but looters with firearms or bands attacking emt personnel dealt with severly.

how could he when patrol cars are under water, officers handed back their badges???

#3) evacuate hospitals & nursing homes etc.

How? carry them on his back?? remember, flooded vehicles in the city, flooded streets and he doesn't appears to have too many flying cars on hand???

#5 search & rescue

How?? swim from house to house??? with limit resource and personels???

#6) evacuation of those left

Again, how since he does not enough working vehicles, and do remember that the streets are flooded. Also, do remember that a hurricane just passed thru. There are no power.

#7) Specific recommendations & requests to the state and federal govenment on what was need (e.g., communications, security, etc.)

I thought that he did that. When he talk to Bush, he did pleaded how desperate the situation is...........

[rkr1958]

#1) Again ... no he did not ... On Tuesday when the gravity of the situation became apparent, he and his staff to include the City's Police commissioner should have set up shop right next to or inside the Superdome and stayed there until the last person was evacuated.

#2) On that very day he sent up shop (Tuesday) he should have made a specific request to his Governor for tents, water and food. The Governor, who controls their National Guard and the State Police could have muster such supplies and requested such help from surrounding states and nationally.

#3) Leadership my man ... The mayor and Police Commissioner control the New Orleans police ... Request to the Governor for National Guard, again she (the Governor) could request federal help, if additional security was needed. Was not done ... The mayor needed to inspire his police dept. That what leaders do.

#4) There have been several stories of emt personnel being fired on (and as I type this ... some firefighters and their families are trapped in the Bellsouth building by an armed group of thughs whos killed a police officer and want to loot the building). The Mayor should have had a zero tolerance for armed looters / thughs.

#5) Secure the city and maintain order and let the Coast Guard, National Guard, etc. do their job.

#6) Be with the people, be visible, be there until you can get them out. Tell them something even if it's I don't know when we can get all you out be we're here until we do.

#7) No so on Tuesday, that's when the breakdown in law and order occured. There's a ton of media there ... use them to communicate your needs to the rest of the state & country. Did he tell his Governer his needs on Tuesday? ... did he know his city's needs on Tuesday? Where was he? New Orleans was his city ... He was their first line leader ... It was up to him to look after his citizens ... It was up to him to understand their needs ... It was up to him to see that the his State and the Federal government did everything they could to get resources and pesonnel as fast as possible to meet those needs. He failed as their leader.

[thecoalman]

Sorry but I disagree, the Federal Government should not have needed a invitation to get in the act. I've seen many of these local officials describing the catasrophe at hand since it happened. As for the Mayor Of NO I'm sure he did what he could with the limited resources he had, I think it's safe to say the city of New Orleans or even the state of La. wouldn't be able to handle this problem by themselves even without the flood waters. I place the blame squarely on the Federal Government who does have the resources.

As I'm typing this there is still people that have not gotten the help they nedd, that is sad indeed.

#4) There have been several stories of emt personnel being fired on (and as I type this ... some firefighters and their families are trapped in the Bellsouth building by an armed group of thughs whos killed a police officer and want to loot the building). The Mayor should have had a zero tolerance for armed looters / thughs.

Just a side note on that... I'm sure many of those officers would have loved to been able to shoot on site. Unfortunatley they probably would be held responsible for acts such as that......

[rkr1958]

Sorry but I disagree, the Federal Government should not have needed a invitation to get in the act. I've seen many of these local officials describing the catasrophe at hand since it happened. As for the Mayor Of NO I'm sure he did what he could with the limited resources he had, I think it's safe to say the city of New Orleans or even the state of La. wouldn't be able to handle this problem by themselves even without the flood waters. I place the blame squarely on the Federal Government who does have the resources..

I think there's a thing called federalism ... and State's Rights in this country. I don't believe the federal government can march into a city and take control without an invitation from the state. There's plenty of blame to go around ... but the responsibility squarely lies on the mayor and then the governor ...

Unless you want to use the aftermath of Katrina to give the federal government the power to go in and take over a city whenever they feel it's necessary ... I'm don't want a federal government with that kind of power

[zzyzzx]

The mayor of New Orleans is an incompetent jerk. You would think that he would have learned something from Guiliani.

[shelbyGT]

but the responsibility squarely lies on the mayor and then the governor

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with you on that premise.

We can "blame" all we want, but it doesn't do a damn thing to help the people that are there.

(on a sidenote, people are still showing up at the Superdome looking for a way out... almost 5 whole days later! wow).