Quick VHS to DVD quality question

[StoneColdWhat]

Alright well to get the EXACT quality as my vhs tape what format should I use ? Obviously not DVD since it'll be no where near that, VCD I heard its lower quality then VHS, What should I pick ? About how many bitrate so I can look thru the templates and find it.

[yoda313]

There is no true "exact". It is almost always an approximation.

I use the "extended play" setting on my hauppauge wintv pvr 250 capture card. It does just fine for most of my projects.

Simply put EXPERIMENT. Its up to you to determine the balance between quality and space saving. Use a videobitrate calculator. That will help you gauge how much you can fit on a single layer dvd for the length of time of the video.

[lordsmurf]

It depends on your equipment (hardware/software), to some degree. And understand your opinion may be wrong on "high quality" (yes, opinions can be wrong).

Before I give any answer, I need to know what capture device you have. And if a capture card, what software.

[junkmalle]

use 720x480 or 352x480 for DVD. 480x480 for SVCD. Actually you may get macroblocks at normal SVCD bitrates (about 2500 kbps) with a VHS capture. If your player can handle it use a higher bitrate.

[StoneColdWhat]

Well I have the 9800 AIW and I'm using um Windvd Recorder. I'm going to try out some programs but I would like some opinion as to what bitrate to use and not resolution.

[lordsmurf]

Quit using WinDVD Recorder. It's crap.
Use the free ATI Multimedia Center (ATI MMC) software.

Capture to 352x480 and give it a bitrate of 3500k VBR, with a max of either 4000k or 4500k. It will be high than the source, and will be fine. The hardware is good.

[whitejremiah]

i know its overkill, but i DO in fact use dvdr's for vhs captures...blank single layer dvdr's are relatively cheap these days and thats about the closest you can really get to an outright 1:1 conversion........otherwise, i would recommend 640x480 resolution divx or xvid...capture to lossless if at all possible...or mjpeg if NOT possible then convert in virtualdub...proper useage of virtualdub's filters can actually result in slightly BETTER quality than the input source...it can be used to clear up some of the "junk" in the signal from the tape......but definately, you gotta do some experimenting, and see what works best for you. Not everyone considers "good" quality to be good....i can tell you in my eyes, personally, what most people consider to be acceptable video quailty, i consider to be....well...lousy.....at least when it comes to this type of thing.........it also does matter a LOT what kind of equipment your planning on playing the video back on...there's a lot you can see on a 52" tv that you cant see on a 13" tv...i'd recommend previewing the output file (no matter what route you go) on the pc, and see how it looks..if it looks acceptable to you on the pc, it will likely look even better on the tv.

[StoneColdWhat]

Well lord from what I've heard, The ATI MMC center is the one thats crap, and from the reviews for windvd recorder on here it got like 7.6 or something so I figured I'd give that a shot. I'm going to ur digitalfaq site and see sup. Oh and btw I'm trying to go from vhs to mmm dvd-video so yeah not divx or xvid white man. I'll keep capping and see what works for me .

Edit: I'm running MMC 8.5, I don't have the antenna hooked up to the umm thing on the card and also MMC crashed after I finished the setup for TV, I think this might be because of the ati hack that I got from biline, if I use the ones mentioned on ur site lord, is that the one where the record button goes away when MMC realizes the MV but if u record b4 u play its ok ?

[lordsmurf]

WinDVD Recorder blended deinterlaces everything. Period. Bad. Horrible.

Whatever you heard about ATI MMC was probably wrong.

ATI MMC .. use the "tv" icon.

[StoneColdWhat]

Ya Ya I'm reading it up on ursite right now, my MMC keeps crashing tho. conexc.dll seems to be the prob.

[StoneColdWhat]

Also an other problem I havn't gotten MMC to work yet, I"m awiting for a reply from the rage 3d forum. I seem to be getting mono sound as well.

[davideck]

Alright well to get the EXACT quality as my vhs tape what format should I use ? Obviously not DVD since it'll be no where near that, VCD I heard its lower quality then VHS, What should I pick ? About how many bitrate so I can look thru the templates and find it.

As a calibration, you might want to read this thread...

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=277455

[anitract]

My 2 cents...ATI MMC is very good, you need to find the version that is right for your PC. I'd suggest trying the older recommended versions (starting w/ 8.7). My hardware was a bit touchy so I settled on an older 9.xx release (I forget which exactly) that works great for me.

I also installe the MINIMAL # of components...pretty much just the TV part (no audio, DVD, or any of the extra software).

[StoneColdWhat]

I'm using 8.5 and I'm having that conexc.dll error like everyone else.... I tried installing ogg vorbis but didn't do any good.

[lordsmurf]

Use 8.7

[StoneColdWhat]

Hmm where can I get 8.7 from ? ati.com has 9.08, your site doesn't have it and I've been googling but nothing yet. Also what is the catalyst ?

[anitract]

Dig a little deeper on ATI's site. Under "Previous Drivers and Software", the last link says "RADEON Previous Windows XP Drivers and Software versions prior to CATALYST 5.1 / Multimedia Center 9.03". Go there.

[StoneColdWhat]

ah ok thanks anitract, I've never seen the previous drivers and software section, I got the MMC 8.7 do I need to get the

CATALYST™ 3.9
Driver Build 6.14.10.6396
7-95-031028m-011774c?

[anitract]

You want stuff listed in the version 3.9 section. You'll want to download...
+"CATALYST™ 3.9 Single Bundle" <--- has drivers & control panel
+"ATI Multimedia Center 8.7.0.0"
+"DAO/MDAC Component Package"

Optionally...
+"ATI DVD Decoder Bundle" <---- if you want their crappy dvd software
+Hydravision
+"Remote Wonder Software 2.1"

I don't download the optional stuff. When I install I do the bundle first, then the dao/mdac, and then multimedia center. And that's it.

Also, I ONLY install the TV components when installing multimedia center. If you want other stuff, go for it...I personally prefer different software for audio and dvds.

Lastly, make sure to totally uninstall previous versions of all this stuff. There's a tool out there to help with that.

[StoneColdWhat]

hmmm well I installed MMC 8.7, set up the templates and when I went to record I realized the record button is grayed, I read somewhere that it will happen if the tape is copy protected so as soon as you play it the button will grey on but if you record it before start playing the tape then it is fine, however even without playing the button is still greyed. Lordsmurf what to do ?

[BrainStorm69]

hmmm well I installed MMC 8.7, set up the templates and when I went to record I realized the record button is grayed, I read somewhere that it will happen if the tape is copy protected so as soon as you play it the button will grey on but if you record it before start playing the tape then it is fine, however even without playing the button is still greyed. Lordsmurf what to do ?

Get a device to defeat MV. SIMA makes several to do this. A TBC will also. Then you will be able to record and back-up your commercially produced tapes on DVD.

Check out LS' sticky on this topic

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=246129&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

[StoneColdWhat]

ummm no what I already have bypasses MV already I don't need a tbc, I can record normally in appz like power Director and Windvd recorder, I'm using this MMC because LS says its better.

[BrainStorm69]

ummm no what I already have bypasses MV already I don't need a tbc, I can record normally in appz like power Director and Windvd recorder, I'm using this MMC because LS says its better.

I don't know about Power Director or WinDVD, because I've never used them. You may be able to use them with an ATI card and not have MV problems. But I have used ATI's MMC with my ATI 7500 AIW, and I can tell you you that you won't be able to record MV protected tapes with MMC at all or without some sort of problem unless you have a hardware device to defeat MV. Period. End of story.

[StoneColdWhat]

Well no Brian, when I was using Windvd and Power Director, before I installed the registry hack when I recorded all I got was a green screen, after I added the hack, it recorded no problem so I'm sure its just a conflict somewhere like I have been reading in this forum but I'm not sure what. LS shed some light on the issue.

[BrainStorm69]

The best I could ever do with registry hacks was to get MMC to actually capture MV protected tapes. However, I still had problems with the MV induced alternating light/dark picture problem no matter what hacks I used.

If you are using ATI drivers (Cat 3.x or later) and MMC (8.x or later), and can get MMC to work without *any* MV problems using only software hacks, please let us know how, because I haven't seen anyone else who is able to do so. Maybe someone has put out a new hack (I haven't tried looking around lately). If so, let us know where to get it.

[vhelp]

Well, I have had my share of MV tweaking around for a while
now. And, it's no picnic. I've been very busy this whole
weekend jugling a number of issues at the same time. Pretty
boring on my end, but busy. Anyways..

With MV, you have to find a card that pre-dates certain MV
files that got introduced right after the earliers ones, like
the first generation ATI-TV Wonder (ATW) ..I have this card in my
other pc. No matter how many Commercial VHS tapes and VCR's
I threw at it, it kept displaying/capturing clean video. No
sign of MV to be found. But, I go to my ATI Rage Fury Pro
card, (and these same tapes I just played in my ATW) are now
being plagued with MV w/ my ATI Rage Fury Pro card.

There are other capture cards that do not serve the devil's
advocate, MV. You just have to stay away from ATI 's line,
unless you have a *working* MV tweak with a sharp wooden spike.

If memory recalls.. I think that WinTV-GO card (hauppage) did
not serve any MV issues. Please double check my memory.

-vhelp 3563

[vcdforme]

352 by 480, at a bitrate of say...2800 2pass should look quite
nice.

Try as many programs as you can and make your own
decision. My worst experience was with ATI, but to each his
own. Presently, I'm still capturing thru WinPro3, to DV, then
TMPGENC. I like it.

[StoneColdWhat]

Well I don't have DV so can't do that and I have lots of stuff to capture so don't have time to capture to avi and encode to mpg. Aswell ATI MMC's record button isn't working for me right now yet..

[CaptainVideo]

Have you tried reapplying the MacroVision hack? Once you re-installed new ATI drivers and software you need to reapply the hack.

[glenpinn]

hi everyone.
im not sure why this thread got a bit off coarse, or appears to have at least, id just like to add my bit about capturing/transfering vhs tapes to pc then to dvd with very good quality.
i use 2 methods.
1. connect my jvc vcr recorder via s-video to my dv camcorder (dv passthru) then firewire to my pc, capture with WinDV in type2 dv avi, encode to dvd mpeg2 with tmpgenc 3.0 xpress, then author/burn with tmpgenc dvd author or dvd lab pro.
2. connect vcr to canopus ADVC-110 using s-video, connect canopus to pc using firewire and capture,encode,author and burn as per method 1.
i sometimes use a TBC-1000 image stabiliser, but not often.
when encoding vhs footage to dvd mpeg2, i normally use 6000 vbr to fit 90-100min of video to a dvd, and use 8000 vbr to get 60-70 min to dvd, but i try never to go lower than 6000 vbr if i can help it, sometimes i go to 4000 vbr if i have to fit 2hrs or a bit more, but very seldom.
i get excellent results doing it this way and in most cases my finished dvd image is better than the original vhs image when played back on my tv.

you cant get better dvd quality if the original vhs tape is crappy quality, some people seem to think the vhs image quality will be better simply because its been digitised. i have clients bringing to me some really horrible footage that was shot with a crappy camera on a pre-used el-cheapo vhs tape, i try to get it better but u can only do as good as the sourse material allows u. having good hardware and.or software helps as well.
i might add that i never do vcd or svcd work, i only ever work in dvd format with all my conversions, and burn all vids onto Ritek G05 or Taiyo Yuden dvd-r media.

not sure if what i said added anything much, im only relatively new here and thought the thread was a bit off track ???

cheers....GLEN