Blue ray anti copying agreed.

[painkiller]

Somebodeez,

You need to join us for lunch at Costco one day.


(make sure to set your alarm..... heh)

[MikieV]

AFAIK "BD+" is based on Cryptography Research's Self-Protecting Digital Content (SPDC). If you want more info I recommend reading this PDF.

Thanks, an excellent read!

Interesting that they don't consider copying the output as a compromise of the encryption. (page 27)

Output only (no compromise). This is the ideal case for a content protection system,
in which the adversary has no access to compromised device internals. All critical
components of the protection system are secured by protected hardware, and the
adversary cannot access secret values (e.g., device keys) or prevent correct system
operation.

Technically true - since the encryption is not broken - but funny considering all the "if it can be played, it can be copied" posts I see on this site. One person's "analog hole" is another's "ideal case".

I was surprised to see: (page 16)

No mechanism exists for revoking recordable media. The Content Revocation
mechanism allows AACS-LA to disable playback of specific titles by transmitting a
revocation list to be stored at the device. However, the Content Revocation mechanism
is based on Content Certificates, which are present only in pre-recorded content.
The Content Revocation mechanism does not appear to contain a provision for revoking
content marked as “recordable”. We recommend that AACS define a Content
Revocation mechanism that can be used to disable any form of playable content.

So, what would they be checking for on recordable media? It seems like the only thing they could check for is "entire disc" (bit-for-bit) copies i.e. if the disc is recordable and has the entire file structure from a retail disc then don't play it else Play it

[MikieV]

However, my biggest fear is that the industry might decide to forcefully phase out standard definition DVD's as soon as possible (at least in North America) so you have no other choice, but to buy HD-DVD or BD equipment and software if you want to continue to watch movies.

That is a scary thought, but it seems like they would have a real problem if they tried it.

I imagine taking the flap over Lucas not releasing the original Star Wars movies on DVD - only the "Enhanced" versions - and multiply that by about 100.

It took years for DVDs to finally replace VHS on rental-store shelves. It will be interesting to see how long it takes HD to replace DVD - if ever. What would they need to do? Re-scan older movies in HD? replace multiple-disc "season"-type sets of DVD-disc with one HD-disc? Lord of the Rings saga on one HD-disc? etc.

As for the dearth of recordable media sales, the entertainment industry would only be concerned in the countries in which they get a tax on blank media.

Otherwise they would be dancing in the isles - because it would be irrefutible proof that their copy-protection system was working. Any up-swing in recordable media sales might then be a tip-off that a hack was in the wild.

The blank media producers couldn't whine too much, or it would made them appear to be profiteering from the "illicit" use of their media.

Not that they do now! 8)

[Edmund Blackadder]

As for the dearth of recordable media sales, the entertainment industry would only be concerned in the countries in which they get a tax on blank media.

Well, yes, some of the industry members would be dancing with joy if recordable media sales were non-existent. But on the other hand, there are companies that are on both sides of the fence, like Sony, Philips, Pioneer, etc.. They do both entertainment and recordable media/drives production. Not to mention all the royalties that other media manufacturers have to pay them per recordable disc (depending on who invented what). If the recordable part of their industry would collapse, then companies like Sony wouldn't be too happy either. And what about the giants like TDK, Verbatim, Emtec or Fuji? How would they feel if there were literally no more recordable sales? I think they'd be pretty pissed and definitely do something about it.

[MikieV]

But on the other hand, there are companies that are on both sides of the fence, like Sony, Philips, Pioneer, etc.. They do both entertainment and recordable media/drives production. Not to mention all the royalties that other media manufacturers have to pay them per recordable disc (depending on who invented what). If the recordable part of their industry would collapse, then companies like Sony wouldn't be too happy either. And what about the giants like TDK, Verbatim, Emtec or Fuji? How would they feel if there were literally no more recordable sales? I think they'd be pretty pissed and definitely do something about it.

Good points.

Sony would be happy to see copying of their own movies reduced, and would have some expectation of Blu-ray sales/royalties for their own movies and PS3 sales - but that doesn't help offset the losses of the blank-media giants.

Regarding your fear of North American DVD releases being supressed in favor of HD, I just read a comment to the effect that both HD standards had provision for HD on one side, and DVD on the flip-side. If true, that would be a scary avenue to eliminate future production of DVD-only discs, by selling only "combo" discs. Yikes!

Bastards would probably try to push it as an advantage for consumers and retail outlets.

[Joe The Dude]

Here are a few key points I'd like to have* available on the new formats' recordable media (HD-DVD and BluRay):

1) The price per byte: Either the same as or less than current DVD-R disks.

2) Authoring Format: It would be sweet if you could put DVD Format stuff on these new disks (complete with menus) and have them playable in the HD/BluRay players, without the need to up-convert it to their format.
A simple program like TMPGenc's DVD Author (but with subtitle and multiple audio stream support) would be perfect...

3) Cost: I'd be willing to spend up to $200 on a recordable drive for my PC, up to $100 on software, and up to $200 on a Set Top Player.

4) About the Players: If I can't hook up a BluRay player or HD-DVD Player to an analogue TV to playback stuff I've authored, all of the above is a moot point.
I have no intention of purchacing 'Store Bought' BluRay or HD-DVD movies; instead I'll continue to buy the occasional store bought (regular) DVDs.

My intrest in these new formats is the possibility of redoing my current multi-episode (DVD Quality or Near-DVD Quality) series onto single (or a vastly lower number of) BluRay or HD-DVD disks to save shelf space.
Heck, I might wind up getting a DIVX Compatible BluRay or HD-DVD Set-top box, if one is ever made, but who knows? :P

* I have not been able to find any confirmation on my above listed hopes.

Edited To Add: I haven't been using DIVX much as I'm waiting for them to come out with software (or a third party who gets the SDK) that'll let me make dynamic menus.

Also, set-top Box support for my ideas is not really nessasary as I have a HTPC hooked up to a SD 27" Sony WEGA Flat-Tube TV. I've only had it a short while and keep forgetting it's an option. :P

The other poster who talked about capturing downconverted HD Content from OTA/Cable/Satellite and converting it to DVD Format sounds like they're doing the same thing I've been doing recently. 8)