PC not booting, no display

[mujahid7ia]

Hi
I'm having major problems with my computer.

Computer Details/Setup:
Operating System: WinXP Pro SP2
CPU Speed: AMD Athlon XP 2500+ overclocked to 3200+
Harddrive space: 160 GB WD 7200 RPM 8 MB Cache, 2 partitions, +10GB quantum fireball
RAM Memory: 512 MB PC3200 DDR400 (256x2)
Video Card: Mad Dog Conquerer GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
Motherboard: MSI K7N2 Delta-L
DVDRW and CDRW drives

Here's the problem:

I left Ubuntu linux installing overnight on an old (but known good) 10GB Quantum Fireball lct15 that I had just installed. It must have restarted.

In the morning, the monitor was in standby mode, meaning no signal from the video card. I tried restarting, but the display would not appear. I cleared the CMOS/BIOS settings with a jumper, but it still did not work.

The MSI motherboard that I have came with something called the "D-Bracket 2" or "D-LED." It has diagnostic lights. It has 4 lights and is telling me

RG
RR

R=red
G=green

which means "Testing onboard memory size. The D-LED will hang if the memory module is damaged or not installed properly." (From MSI K7N2 Delta-L manual).

I am sure they are good working modules. I reseated them, and removed one, but got the same result. I don't know what's wrong.

I disconnected all drives and booted with only mobo connected to CPU, RAM, and video card. I also reseated/reinstalled these 3 components. Still same diagnostic lights. I have no idea what is causing this.

This is kind of urgent, because it is my main PC and many people rely on it.

Thanks for any help

EDIT:
P.S.: This has happened before, but only to a minor extent, i.e., after restarting the display got no signal and the problem was solved (well not really, I guess :P ) by hitting reset a few (5-15) times.

[redwudz]

Are you getting any BIOS beeps from the motherboard?

Tried a different video card? Some MBs seem to be dead when the VGA card quits.

You substituted RAM modules, but that could still be it. If you have a different RAM module from another computer, give that a try. Failing RAM modules cause all kinds of strange effects. Just because they did work doesn't mean they still do.

So many possibilities

From there it could be about anything. PS failure, CPU failure, etc.........

[thevoelk]

Since AGP cards can be directly accessed (and vice versa) by the CPU, similar to the RAM modules, and if the RAM on the card is bad it can affect it can give the same issues bad RAM has. Try throwing a different video card in, preferably PCI in case the AGP port is bad, to see if you can get some output to the screen.

If you can get far enough to boot from a floppy, there is a memory diagnostic tool on Microsoft's site that you can let run overnight to ensure your RAM is good and rule that out. Try the video card in another computer. Odds are it will give the same or similar issues.

I'm assuming you have an add-on AGP card instead of an integrated one. If it is integrated, you''re going to need to locate another video card to try to solve it.

Also, I doubt it's causing the problem, but overclocking your processor by that much is probably not the best of ideas. I know it's not a 700MHz difference, but that chip wasn't designed for running at that speed for a reason. I'm sure it is and has been working fine, just my opinion.

[mujahid7ia]

Are you getting any BIOS beeps from the motherboard?

Nope, no beeps whatsoever.

Tried a different video card? Some MBs seem to be dead when the VGA card quits.

Yeah, I tried a PCI Voodoo3, same result. I'll try to get an AGP card to test.

You substituted RAM modules, but that could still be it. If you have a different RAM module from another computer, give that a try. Failing RAM modules cause all kinds of strange effects. Just because they did work doesn't mean they still do.

Yeah, I'll try and get some from friends.

From there it could be about anything. PS failure, CPU failure, etc.........

Yeah, I should swap in another PSU. I don't think it's the CPU because the mobo got past that part, according to the D-Bracket2 ( http://www.msicomputer.com/support/sup_tshoot.asp#1_4 ).

Thanks for the help.

[mujahid7ia]

Since AGP cards can be directly accessed (and vice versa) by the CPU, similar to the RAM modules, and if the RAM on the card is bad it can affect it can give the same issues bad RAM has. Try throwing a different video card in, preferably PCI in case the AGP port is bad, to see if you can get some output to the screen.

yeah I tried PCI Voodoo3.

Also, I doubt it's causing the problem, but overclocking your processor by that much is probably not the best of ideas. I know it's not a 700MHz difference, but that chip wasn't designed for running at that speed for a reason. I'm sure it is and has been working fine, just my opinion.

Yeah, it was stable, but I already cleared the BIOS settings via jumper, so that's not really affecting it anymore, I think .

[Trident5]

Unplug monitor etc from system disconect power for both monitor and computer..If your board has a removable batttery take it off the mobo and leave off for 24 and even better 48 hours then put battery back in..rehook everything up and power up....

even disconected and powered off with battery on board it can hold a charge for your mb setting for 30-40 days. Thats why i suggested removing battery if possible ...and your capacitors on board can hold a charge for upto 48 hours... at least buy doing this you can loose whatever setting the board may have, that mabe be causing you trouble.

[redwudz]

Trident5, he reset his MB BIOS with a shorting jumper. That would completely clear the BIOS settings back to default, including the overclock and all other changed settings. Removing the CMOS battery for about a minute will do the same. The computer should be unplugged when resetting BIOS to default using either of these methods.

This will have no effect on the BIOS version, in case you have upgraded it. BIOS settings are held by battery power and are software . BIOS upgrades are firmware and require no external power to be maintained.

Hope this explains it a little.

[mujahid7ia]

Hi, thanks for the replies, all.

I tried my GFFX5200 in my friends nforce2 mobo (Asus A7N8X Deluxe) and it worked fine. My RAM worked fine there as well.

I also tried both his good Kingston RAM and his RADEON 9600PRO AGP in my PC (separately) and still got no display. The D Bracket2 Diagnostic thing still said the memory was at fault, so I think it is wrong.

Is it possible the AGP port is bad somehow? Or some other mobo problem? Or even the CPU? (Maybe I can borrow a Socket A CPU to try. I have a Socket 462 Duron 1 GHz, I'll see if it fits).

I'm at a loss of things to do.

[redwudz]

I think you have done most of the obvious things. If you rule out the CPU and PS, then it begins to look like a motherboard failure. Sorry. I can't think of much else to try.

[mujahid7ia]

I think you have done most of the obvious things. If you rule out the CPU and PS, then it begins to look like a motherboard failure. Sorry. I can't think of much else to try.

I knew I would hear that and I was dreading it. Well, I still haven't ruled out the PSU or CPU. I think PSU would be easier to buy and return from a local PC store (Micro Center). I have to check if they accept returns. My PSU is pretty crappy I think...

TurboLink LC-A350 ATX
+3.3V/24A
+5V/35A
+12V/12A

Probably not 350W of "clean" power. I'm going to try a new Antec or PC Power and Cooling before I swap motherboards or CPUs.

[mujahid7ia]

I just bought an Antec SmartPower 2.0 400W PSU. I have not tried it yet, I'll do it when I get home.

http://www.antec.com/specs/SP400_spe.html

Do you think $70 (US) is a fair price?

If it still does not work, I'll try and borrow a 3200+ from my friend.

[mujahid7ia]

UPDATE

Well, the new PSU did not solve problem.
Such a nice PSU too, I wanted to keep it. But I have to return it.

Time to swap CPUs...

[mujahid7ia]

Well, I tried my CPU (AMD AXP 2500+) in my friends ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe, and it worked fine. So I guess this means the mobo is the problem. I did not try any other CPU in my current mobo though...

I'm looking to get an ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe myself, I hear it's pretty much the best Socket 462 mobo out there. Any opinions?

[hellbringer]

hey thought i would put my 2 cents in, before u go buy another mb try 2 things,

1. Just because u did the jumper doesn't mean cmos was cleared, take out the battery and then use the jumper and hold the jumper there for at lest 10 seconds, then put it back where it was, then put the battery back in.

2. Make sure your heatsink and fan are on your cpu currectly. if its not cooling your cpu effectionly some mb's won't let computer boot. just take everything off and put it back on again. which u might have already done

[redwudz]

I use a ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe in my multimedia computer and it works well. It's been running 24/7 for the last couple of months with no problems. It's easy to set the FSB to 400Mhz, which sounds like the way you had it set before.

I ran a AMD 2200+ Sempron at 400Mhz FSB and it worked great. Then I decided to upgrade to a 2600+ Sempron and found out the newer models are FSB locked to 333. I might as well go back to the 2200 OC'ed.

With the ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe, turn on the computer voice in BIOS and this lady's voice will tell you it's booting when you first turn it on.

[mujahid7ia]

hey thought i would put my 2 cents in, before u go buy another mb try 2 things,

1. Just because u did the jumper doesn't mean cmos was cleared, take out the battery and then use the jumper and hold the jumper there for at lest 10 seconds, then put it back where it was, then put the battery back in.

2. Make sure your heatsink and fan are on your cpu currectly. if its not cooling your cpu effectionly some mb's won't let computer boot. just take everything off and put it back on again. which u might have already done

Thanks for the reply.

1. OK. I took out the battery and set the jumper to CLEAR position. I'll leave like that for a few hours (just to be sure).

2. I'm pretty sure it's mounted properly. I remounted like 10 times in the last few days.

Thanks.

[mujahid7ia]

I use a ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe in my multimedia computer and it works well. It's been running 24/7 for the last couple of months with no problems. It's easy to set the FSB to 400Mhz, which sounds like the way you had it set before.

I ran a AMD 2200+ Sempron at 400Mhz FSB and it worked great. Then I decided to upgrade to a 2600+ Sempron and found out the newer models are FSB locked to 333. I might as well go back to the 2200 OC'ed.

With the ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe, turn on the computer voice in BIOS and this lady's voice will tell you it's booting when you first turn it on.

Wow. I did not know they could even lock the FSB... You can't change it in BIOS or with a software FSB changer like nVidia's nTune?

Yeah, I heard that voice before. It can be disabled, right?

EDIT: OK, after leaving battery out and jumper, same problem. So, is it safe to say that mobo is the problem? The AGP port still gets power, and cpu fan gets power from CFAN1 connector... idk what's up w/ this mobo.
--Last step before I order that ASUS on newegg tonight, I'll try an old Duron 1GHz in this MSI mobo. If anyone thinks it's not the mobo, please tell!

[mujahid7ia]

NEW DEVELOPMENT:

This thing is driving me crazy. I put in my old Duron 1 GHz, and the D-Bracket gave me the warning for CPU damaged or not installed properly, instead of the Memory initialization message it had been giving me. All three lights are also flashing. But, there is still no display. I know this Duron works.

Now, I am not sure if a new motherboard will fix the problem. Someone please advise me as to what to do because I have no idea and I need this PC back online ASAP!

Thanks.

[hellbringer]

take a look in your manuel and double check all the jumpers are in the currect location on mb.

try removing the d-bracket and then try booting, maybe the d-bracket is bad and is stopping your computer from booting, make sure when its in there any cables to it are snug.


try inserting any floppy into the floppy drive then boot computer.

try disconnecting everything from the motherboard: cd drivers, floppy, and expecially the hard drive. it should still boot without these things but you would get an error in there somewhere. since u installed a new os on your hard drive maybe "somehow" thats affecting it.

ive never tried this one before but have u tryed booting without any cpu in it? i would "THINK" it would go to bios but i have never tried this nor heard of anyone doing such a thing.

some mb's don't like certain brands of memory, what kind do you have? check msi's website they should have some kinds of ref on there telling what brands have been ok'ed with that board.....at lest asus does such a nice thing on there website.

thats all i can think of for now...most likely your board is bad but that d-bracket thing could very well be stopping u from booting make sure u pull that thing out and boot once.

alot of what i wrote is just thowing things in the air most likely won't help u but if your desprite and have the time maybe there worth trying.

[redwudz]

On the ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe you can turn the voice off in BIOS.

I was wrong about the 'superlocking'. That just refers to the multiplier. You used to be able to bridge the mulitiplier lock with a graphite pencil, but not since around production week 39 of 2003. The FSB is still changeable. I ran my Sempron 2600+ up to 175Mhz on the FSB speed. I'll wait awhile before I try to go higher. Just can't get to 200Mhz easily like I could with the 2200+. More research needed.

Still sounds like a MB problem. There's no easy way to check without getting the video to work. I'd say order the new MB and put this one away for another go at it in the future.

[mujahid7ia]

take a look in your manuel and double check all the jumpers are in the currect location on mb.

try removing the d-bracket and then try booting, maybe the d-bracket is bad and is stopping your computer from booting, make sure when its in there any cables to it are snug.


try inserting any floppy into the floppy drive then boot computer.

try disconnecting everything from the motherboard: cd drivers, floppy, and expecially the hard drive. it should still boot without these things but you would get an error in there somewhere. since u installed a new os on your hard drive maybe "somehow" thats affecting it.

ive never tried this one before but have u tryed booting without any cpu in it? i would "THINK" it would go to bios but i have never tried this nor heard of anyone doing such a thing.

some mb's don't like certain brands of memory, what kind do you have? check msi's website they should have some kinds of ref on there telling what brands have been ok'ed with that board.....at lest asus does such a nice thing on there website.

thats all i can think of for now...most likely your board is bad but that d-bracket thing could very well be stopping u from booting make sure u pull that thing out and boot once.

alot of what i wrote is just thowing things in the air most likely won't help u but if your desprite and have the time maybe there worth trying.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

verified all jumpers
w/o dbracket=same
w/ floppy=same
I have approved memory for this board.

Thanks a lot, anyway.

On the ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe you can turn the voice off in BIOS.

I was wrong about the 'superlocking'. That just refers to the multiplier. You used to be able to bridge the mulitiplier lock with a graphite pencil, but not since around production week 39 of 2003. The FSB is still changeable. I ran my Sempron 2600+ up to 175Mhz on the FSB speed. I'll wait awhile before I try to go higher. Just can't get to 200Mhz easily like I could with the 2200+. More research needed.

Still sounds like a MB problem. There's no easy way to check without getting the video to work. I'd say order the new MB and put this one away for another go at it in the future.

I think I can use the graphite thing on my CPU, I need to check. Does the CPU have the production date on it?

Maybe that 2600+ just is not a good OC-ing chip. Too bad.

BTW, now even my 2500+ is giving a CPU error on the D-Bracket. I just don't trust that thing anymore, but it's a good feature...


Yeah, I guess I'm getting a new mobo.

Thanks, everyone, for your help.

If the new mobo doesn't work, then I'll be really annoyed.

[hellbringer]

i got that board wanna buy mine? lol I can sell u my 2100+ xp too hahah

[redwudz]

I found out the Sempron 2600+ and the 2800+ aren't good candidates for OCing. Oh well, it's only for my multimedia computer. I don't really need to OC it.

You can usually find out the production date of your CPU from the numbers imprinted on the CPU die. You may need to do some research to find out what they mean.

I sold off my XP 2500 Barton last year. I wish I had kept it. But I have a 3200 XP 64 now for my main computer. I'm happy with it.

But, hopefully with a new MB most all of your problems will be behind you. Best of luck.

[mujahid7ia]

I got an RMA for my MSI mobo, so I'll try that first.

[mujahid7ia]

Just a status update... MSI is sooooo slow, still waiting for mobo.

[mujahid7ia]

I finally got my motherboard back, everything seems fine except that I'm getting higher temperatures.

[glockjs]

the sensor is probably a little closer than it should be is all. the best way to get an accurate temp reading is with a probe :/