Field recording equipment - Is MD the way to go?

[mrtunes]

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html

Now this I would definitely consider getting even myself. Thanks for the link!

M-Audio has always made stuff that has a great sound quality, so I'm hoping that this little recorder will be just as good. If the reviews are good, I might think of getting one. The only thing though that I don't like (including the iPods), is the permanent internal rechargeable battery. So if you're in the field (say in some distant village without electricity) and need more than 8 hours of recording you can't just replace it to the charged one from your backpack, you're simply out of juice and that's the end of it. Perhaps I'll stick with DAT for now .

yeah the m-audio piece promises to be good; it's built using m-audio's classic components that are featured in their soundcards. i dont really base my purchases around the likelihood of me being in a totally remote area but i guess that's why collecting recorders is a good thing. DAT is great and all but it has spinning parts, something the m-audio piece wont have any of.

[Raga]

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html

Now this I would definitely consider getting even myself. Thanks for the link!

M-Audio has always made stuff that has a great sound quality, so I'm hoping that this little recorder will be just as good. If the reviews are good, I might think of getting one. The only thing though that I don't like (including the iPods), is the permanent internal rechargeable battery. So if you're in the field (say in some distant village without electricity) and

Maximum settings, "24bit PCM 96kHz". There goes your 48kHz! Agreed on the battery issue. Also, high capacity CFs are still a bit pricey. This unit, however, is priced around $400, so it isn't too bad. I wonder how much extra batteries cost.

i have the mz-rh910, i think it sounds great. dumping the files onto the PC is great, but the battery life on pcm recording is not very long(about the length of a disc i'd say-1 hour and half?) could be more but maybe i havent conditioned my battery enough. you can also add recording time with the AA attachment.

Can you tell me about the battery attachment? This device has both an internal battery of its own and an AA attachment? Any idea on how long the thing will run on that alone once the main battery is finished?

[mrtunes]

24 bit pcm 96k is great and all but it takes up way too much space. it's a good samplerate if you're recording things that you want to pitch shift later on

i suggest you download the manuals for the mz-910 and it's big brother
http://esupport.sony.com/perl/model-documents.pl?mdl=MZRH910

page 20 on the Operating Instructions gives you a table that outlines "supposed" battery lives. it claims 4 hours on the internal gumstick battery recording PCM wave. 2 hours with a AA battery on the same setting. recording lower quality files gives way more battery life, and as a mp3 player it's got plenty of juice to go for days.

[Raga]

Hate sony for forcing you to open a 115 page PDF manual into a popup-window. If someone needs it, here's a direct link dug from the javascript abyss: download.

Looking at the battery specs in the manual, I'm not sure I quite understand why it gives internal/AA the times 4h/2h when recording on Hi-MD, but 3.5h/4h when recording on regular MD. With all qualities, the AA-battery capacity doubles when using standard discs.

Do you know what happens if the battery runs out in the middle of a recording? Is the data saved first? I've had it happen on my age-old MD that no TOC was saved and everything was lost if the battery died mid-recording. I will often need to record sessions lasting up to three hours, and in an environment where I can't guarantee my batteries get properly fully charged despite being plugged in (due to occasional low current), so this is a bit of a concern for me.

[mrtunes]

you get more battery life when recording regular md and lower rates cause it takes less energy to record in those formats. in order to sample at PCM quality the machine has to take more snapshots per second(sampling rate) of the incoming sound.

i dont know what happens when the battery dies during recording, i assume it knows how to finish it's business properly before saying goodbye. it doesnt let you to start recording if the battery is at a certain level - while that can be quite frustrating, it is to ensure that you are not up the creek without a paddle.

[mrtunes]

Hate sony for forcing you to open a 115 page PDF manual into a popup-window. If someone needs it, here's a direct link dug from the javascript abyss: download.

if you hate sony for THAT, you'll hate them even more for how they handle sonicstage and wave uploading

[Raga]

If someone has info on the battery issue, please post it in!

Yes I understand that PCM consumes more energy, but how come recording on regular minidisc media in HiMD mode gives double the life with regular AA? See:



* * *

Hey, some good news from MiniDisc.Org, quoting:

7/28: Sony (finally!) comes to their senses, allowing unlimited uploads of your own recordings from Minidisc to PC in Sonic Stage 3.2. Remember NetMD with its silly 3-download limit? how far they have come!

So that seems to be very good news indeed.

[mrtunes]

If someone has info on the battery issue, please post it in!

Yes I understand that PCM consumes more energy, but how come recording on regular minidisc media in HiMD mode gives double the life with regular AA? See:

7/28: Sony (finally!) comes to their senses, allowing unlimited uploads of your own recordings from Minidisc to PC in Sonic Stage 3.2. Remember NetMD with its silly 3-download limit? how far they have come!

So that seems to be very good news indeed.

sorry i misunderstood the question
i am at a loss for an explanation

that is good news indeed about a new sonicstage update

[Raga]

Regarding the battery thing, I actually got a very thorough explanation at the Minidisc.Org forums (read here).

[mrtunes]

yeah that's a great forum. i guess i should beef up my battery a bit. i was thinking about getting a second one anyway.

[Raga]

Here's an interesting something I came across just now: Edirol R1. Seems to have been custom made for recording, in the $400 range. Looks a bit hideous, but that I don't really care. That's in fact a bonus in the environment I'm in, rather than all the übermodern looking gadgets that scream, "I'm expensive - look at me!" The device saves 24-bit linear WAV on CF cards up to 2GB size. Runs off two AA-batteries, recording time ~2.5h, which is still manageable.

Following up on this, I've decided to go with the Edirol R1. Contrary to what's above, actual recording time with rechargeable batteries is in the range of five to six hours. Recording eats 350mAh, so two 2300mAh batteries should serve you long enough.

A 2GB CF card gives a recording time of 188 minutes in 16-bit PCM, which is plenty, with a 1GB card as a backup - which will take, if it looks like there's plenty more to record, some seven hours in mp3 320kbps.

I'll be recording from mid-October onwards, and will get back to you with experiences once the show is over. The reviews I've read up to now seem to have not much but praise for the gadget.

By the way, Edirol is a brand of Roland's, for those of you familiar with the company. They certainly have a reputation in the pro music genre.

[mrtunes]

that should be a really good purchase. good luck with your project and i am envious!

[joeg04]

Battery life
Playback: approximate 6 hours, Recording: approximate 2.5 hours

I think, because of battery life for recording the PMD660 from Marantz is better (4 hours) than the EDIROL-R1:
http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=3629

[Raga]

To quote myself.

Contrary to what's above, actual recording time with rechargeable batteries is in the range of five to six hours. Recording eats 350mAh, so two 2300mAh batteries should serve you long enough.

If you do the maths, 2300/350 = 6.5714 or a bit over six and half hours. The device you link to uses four AA batteries in contrast to Edirol's two.

[joeg04]

Recording: approximate 1 hour (In case of using Alkaline batteries continuosly)

Source:
http://www.edirol.com/products/info/r1/r1_brochure.pdf

I can't find, which power (watts) the EDIROL needs while recording. Where does the number 350 mAh come from?

[Dragonsf]

The manual says recording time: max 2 hours. And you have to use AC Adaptor, when using USB (battery will get empty).
IMHO several drawbacks: No SPDIF in (SPDIF out is quite useless, what's USB be for?) and only 44.1KHz.
This device is quite big (I've seen it in a store) and no MicroDrive. CF only up to 2GB, whereas M-Audio uses up to 6GB. At nearly the same (ok 20% cheaper) I'd opt for the M-Audio (if it were available here). I asked the M-Audio sales manager and he told me, they expect the sales after end of August.

[joeg04]

I think the M-Audio has some good properties. However, two drawbacks:
- Built-in proprietary Li-ion battery, can't be exchanged if it gets old and capacity decreases. While new standard AA NiMH batteries are cheap and will be constantly improved. You can get already 2700 mAh ones.
- No built-in stereo mics

[Dragonsf]

I agree. You have to compromise

[joeg04]

Regarding EDIROL-R1 battery life I found:
http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-7595-0.html?forumID=71&threadID=31963&messageID=1140231

However, the EDIROL-R1 seems to have a better quality of internal mic recording than the Marantz PMD660:
http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-7595-0.html?forumID=71&threadID=31963&messageID=1224116

There are two built-in electret mics flush mounted on the top of the unit, but I found them pretty useless for anything but dictation-level recording. There's an obvious high frequency whine on the recordings, and any hand movement on the case translates to very loud scraping sounds.

Source:
http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200503.pmd660.html


I am searching for a small MP3 Flash recorder that
- can do continuous 4 hour recordings per battery charge
- with high quality internal mics
- with standard AA NiMH-batteries.
None of the discussed recorders (M-Audio, EDIROL-R1, Marantz PMD660) seems to fulfill all 3 requirements. Does anyone know a recorder that does?

[Raga]

Here are some more specs on the Edirol R1 on Roland's site. The figure 350mAh for recording I got from this review.

Joeg, what's your standard for "small"?

[joeg04]

Joeg, what's your standard for "small"?

All, M-Audio, EDIROL-R1, and Marantz PMD660 are small enough for me.

I think I would buy the EDIROL-R1 if it would hold 4 instead of only 2 AA batteries. Even if it would be a little bit bigger for that. From the reviews I conclude, that there are huge differences in power consumption between different recording modes.

The Marantz PMD660 would be O.K. for me if it would have good quality of internal mic recordings. I like, that it has an internal speaker.

I need MP3 recording at least @16 bit, 44.1 kHz sample rate stereo, 128 kbit/s (if the encoder is good). NiMH battery charge for one continuous recording should hold reliably > 4hours.

[Raga]

It probably wouldn't take an engineer to rig the two battery setup into a four battery setup... or eight, if you wanted to cover the entire back of the device and make it a centimeter thicker and get some awesome recording times!

[joeg04]

It probably wouldn't take an engineer to rig the two battery setup into a four battery setup... or eight, if you wanted to cover the entire back of the device and make it a centimeter thicker and get some awesome recording times!

Good idea, I will consider it. Others also seem to need such a solution:
http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-7595-0.html?forumID=71&threadID=31963&messageID=1203217

[Dragonsf]

Maybe an external USB power supply with batteries could do the job. I saw one at Sofmap for around 800 Yen.

[Raga]

I don't think it'll take in power over USB, it's most likely going to be a battery pack setup attached to the AC-adapter plug. (I don't have the device here yet and therefore don't know the adapter specs, so I can't really say much on how to make one.)

[Dragonsf]

I ment that as an alternative to an external power pack (like big rechargeable battery).

[Raga]

Yes I understood that, but I didn't quite understand how you would attach it to the device in a meaningful way.

[Dragonsf]

If I understanbd the spec correctly, the Edirol can also be powered by USB.

[Raga]

Did you read that somewhere? (Link please?) If that was true, it wouldn't make sense to say that you should use the AC adapter while transfering stuff so as to not strain the batteries (as in the manual).

[Raga]

For those of you interested in putting together a basic battery pack for Edirol R1 (or whatever player you will), here are some notes I've made.