Multichannel Music in CD , is possible???

[olier]

Hello friends

I need some help. I want to create a CD 5.1 music, to be played in my DVD Standalone player. Wich have Dolby Digital decoder (its seem to have it, since its has the 6 channel outputs in the back.)

I have hooked a Home threater speaker system. When I play a DVD Movie with 5.1 Sound, its sounds great in all the speakers. (The Speakers are just Amplified, they dosent have any Decoder, they are conected directly to the DVD player).

I have music in WAV files, but they are Encoded in DTS (they come from a DTS 5.1 Music CD)
Also I have download from the Internet some files in DTS and DD (Multichannel Music they create in both systems) (I don't kwon If I can put the link in this forum)

I have tried brun them as a regular WAV files in the CD, but I can't hear them (It made "pink noise").
I also tried burn it as a CD audio with Nero, but Is was unable tu read it. Says "no disc". (I made all the test in CD-RW, for don't trougth CDs.)

In my Player says "DTS Digital Out", that is way I have to convert it to some file which can be played in my DVD with Dolby Digital decoder..

In Addition:
1) I need to Convert my DTS files to be played in my DVD.

2) I need to know how to burn them.

3) Also I need to kwon if is possible have Multichannel sounds/Music in a Regular CD. If not, how I burn them in a DVD-R??

THAnks in Advance.
PD: I'm from Argentine, please fogert me for any error in my English. I'm doing my best.

[solarfox]

If you want them as actual CD-Audio, playable on any normal CD player, then no, it is not possible. CD-Audio only supports 2-channel stereo, encoded as 16-bit PCM samples @ 44.1KHz.

[guns1inger]

Multi-channel audio on CD is a way of encapsulating AC3 or DTS audio within the wav file structure. When played back through a normal CD player, you get pink noise, but when played through the digital output to a suitable decoder/amplifier, you get full multi-channel audio.

You DVD player will play an AC3 CD through all channels if a) it has a Dolby Digital decoder, and b) it outputs directly to the speakers or pre-amps. Otherwise it needs to pass the signal as a digital signal to a decoder.

If you don't have a DTS encoder then you need to demux the signal back to 6 mono wav files, and reencode to AC3 as a wav file before burning to CD. Or get a DTS decoding amplifier.

I have a number of CDs with a mix of DTS and AC3 wav files and all work.

To convert a multi-channel wav file requires software that can either read it as native and reencode as AC3 for DVD authoring, or can demux so you can reencode yourself.

[olier]

Thanks Guns1inger, thats really help me to understand a little bit more about multichannel Cds.

Now, which software/s I must to use for "demux" the DTS files into 6 Mono Files???.
After that, I have to re-encode to a AC3-CD, agian which soft do you recomend? (I have AC3tool, do you know it?, works?)
After I have the new AC3Cd Wav file, how I burn them? (like a regular CD-Audio on Nero6? or should be get another buring soft?)

Btw, Do I need to have a AC3/Dolby/5.1 Sound card Installed in my computer in order to do all this "Decode" and "Re-encode"??????

Thanks and best regards

PD: I believe my DVDplayer has DoblyDigital decoder, since I can Hear Full 5.1 sound from the Movies I rent. (I just rent Lord Of the Rings "two Tower" and sounds Incredible). Agian, my Speakers are conected directly to the DVD, the 6 channels outpouts go to the Subwoofer, where the Amplifier is it, and the Sub feeds the 4 satelites and the center. As long I read and I know the Speaker system doesnt have any Decoder, and on the box says Dolby Digital and DTS "READY".

[Cornucopia]

If you want to encode to AC3, you'll need a special AC3 encoder that can format the file specifically for encapsulation within standard WAV headers.

AFAIK, SoftEncode and probably the other Sony products based on it (Soundforge, Vegas) can do it, and probably the Minnetonka products, but that might be it.

Nonetheless, you may have a problem with your DVD player in that it sees the AC3 or DTS streams for what they are while part of a DVD soundtrack (and decodes them correctly), but doesn't recognize them when played out from an Audio CD.

BTW, what your are supposed to be making here is--to all normal applications and players--a standard AudioCD. It's just the decoding/rerouting part near the end which needs to be changed and accounted for.

Most of the time with CD's of this type, you play the sound out through your Digital Audio stream port (either Optical or Coaxial/SPDIF), which then gets sent to an external decoder/amplifier.
In doing so, you must reset your player's preferences to output a "RAW" digital stream via the DigAud port.
Your decoder/receiver/amp is then an open-minded, format-agnostic decoder that just works with what is given it. This is how the trick on the format is performed. Without the capability to output separately, the ability to change preferences, or the ability to decode without preconception, then the whole house of cards will fall down and it won't work.

HTH,

Scott

[olier]

Thanks Scott.

Please guys, lets be clear in something:
First: Can I Burn a Multichannel CD to be played in a DVD (without having it conected to a Amp or reciver with a Digital cable).Can this be done?

Second: In order to do this, I need to have a "special" sound card? (ej: SB Libe 7.1; SB Audigy, etc etc)

Third: the files has to be burn them as CDDA or can be regular Wavs files directly droped in the CD. (My DVD has a little file-explorer).

Any ideas?

Thanks
PD: Guys please forget I will buy a DTS amp/decoder, since they are way to expensive in my country, also If I made the effort to buy it, I will be force to buy better and bigger speakers than I have right now.

[Cornucopia]

re #1-I doubt it. That was kind of the point of my explanation of the that whole "separate-ness" stuff.

re #2-Sound card has NOTHING to do with either computer file encoding/decoding or settop playback

re #3-If you are actually doing the "Multichannel CD" thing, then YES you have to have them be CDDA/Redbook audio tracks. Not Waves on a CDROM. AudioCD players don't play CDROMs.

Here's a complete alternative:

1. Get a DVD burner
2. Decode your AC3's and DTS's (all probably done at 44.1kHz) and save them as multichannel WAVs.
3. Sample-rate convert to 48kHz.
4. Encode them with a 5.1-capable AC3 encoder (at 48kHz of course)
5. Author along with Still pix to create a semi-"AudioOnly" standard DVD.

That will be playable on your settop (and everyone else's). If one's player doesn't have 5.1 capability, the settop will still be able to downmix to 2 ch.

Problem here is that most people have trouble correctly decoding these specially-formatted, WAV-headered, 44.1kHz AC3 files.

Good luck,
Scott

[smearbrick1]

If your files are already dts or AC3... you can use Vegas DVD architect to create a dvd that just plays audio only. If your dvd structure is small enough, just burn it to cd-r instead of DVD-R. It will work just like Mini-DVD works now.

[Cornucopia]

If your files are already dts or AC3... you can use Vegas DVD architect to create a dvd that just plays audio only. If your dvd structure is small enough, just burn it to cd-r instead of DVD-R. It will work just like Mini-DVD works now.

2 problems with that:

AC3/WAV or DTS/WAV files on AudioCD are all 44.1kHz. You can't use them for DVD (48kHz required) without decoding, sample-rate converting, and re-encoding.

Mini-DVD (dvd onCD) isn't playable on very many drives--he'd have to get a new player. Neither are there many of the "mp3/ac3/mpg file-on-dvd media" capable players. Both push the limit of the hardware and software/logic capabilities of settops.

Scott

[olier]

Hi Scott and thanks agian.

Now I confirm my suspects, I can't have Multichannel Music in CD (with my configuration "analogic").

In order to do your 5 steps system, what soft or Softs do I need? or you recommend.(maybe you can link me a Tutorial or something similar)

Sorry for bother you agian, but are you sure I don't need a 5.1 soundcard to do all this?.

thanks in advance and Best Regards!

[guns1inger]

Surcode have AC3 and DTS encoders that can output to WAV for CD creation. Not cheap, and you need both pieces of software to cover all bases. If you had to choose one, the AC3 encoder would be the logic choice as it is closer to universal.

[Cornucopia]

Hi Scott and thanks agian.

Now I confirm my suspects, I can't have Multichannel Music in CD (with my configuration "analogic").

In order to do your 5 steps system, what soft or Softs do I need? or you recommend.(maybe you can link me a Tutorial or something similar)

Sorry for bother you agian, but are you sure I don't need a 5.1 soundcard to do all this?.

thanks in advance and Best Regards!

My "5" steps are generalized--they actually contain many more steps.

Here is a guide I just found that walks you through extracting and using the DTS from a DTS-AudioCD (as well as from DVD)...http://www.app.demon.nl/DTSguide.htm

5.1 Soundcards support 5.1 channels of audio output and mixing. That's it. The stage they are at is the final one--PCM digital audio mixing and D-to-A. If something is even in PCM WAV (or AIFF) format, it gets parsed and the PCM stream(s) is sent to the soundcard. Anything else needs to be decoded first and this is done in software. The only thing that doesn't is if a DVDplayer (or similar)app reads AC3 or DTS and is set in preferences to pass the signal through to a digital output port on the soundcard. You don't have to have 5.1 to have a digital output port (optical or coaxial), as I have a 2ch soundcard with SPDIF digital ins and outs.
If you want to do DTS(or AC3) encoding or decoding, you need DTS/AC3 encoding (or decoding) software. These rarely, if ever, come with a soundcard of any kind.

Scott

[olier]

Hi Scott

Thanks for everything, that guide is great!!!!.

But I have found "Thesolution" for all my problems, and maybe some of yours.

THIS SOFT IS ASWOME, is CALLED : AUDIO DVD CREATOR, IS excellent!. With this Soft I was Able to do Multichannel Music on CD!!!! yes on CD!!!! I just can believe!!! )

It have, just one flaw (or apear to be), since when each song ends, and before the begining of the next song, made that "PINK NOISE". Maybe this is produced beacuse the soft I have installed is a Trial Version, or MY DVD Player have some problem to read the Song changes, or maybe can be the music files (I just Try One CD, I will try with few mores).

I can't describe my happines, when I put my CD-Rw on my DVDplayer and on the LCD says "Reading CD (Digital)".... and the music start in all the speakers. I scream, I shout....... I jump... agian I can't tell you how I Feel.

Now I just need to remove the minor flaw. Because I know that PINK NOISE can damage my Speakers.
I know I'm asking tooooo much, but can you check that???.(Or anyone else you have read this).

THANKS THANKS THANKS..... If you ever come to my country, I will invite you to drink some wines and some ecxellent MEAT.

Cheers.

[olier]

Ok Friends...

Thanks to you I have confirm Two Things:
1) My Dvd Player have the Dolby Digital Decoder Working Perfectly.
2) Is possible have Multichannel Music in a CD.

Now I just need one more thing. I still Need to "convert" my DTS wavs into DD Wavs, HOW I DO that???

(Scott, I've tried the guide you give me, but some Softs Doesn't work) You know other solution?

Thanks!.

[Cornucopia]

Which ones don't work?

I would try the Hypercube Transcoder, with the WinDVD filters (Intervideo blah blah blah). He has a (very elementary) guide on his site about doing DTS decode to mp2. I'd go to multichannel WAV, either as separate files or as single multichannel WAV file. Then use an AC3 encoder, since your setup seems to work ok with AC3. Which AC3 encoder do you have?

Scott