DVD Recorder that cures VHS problems - Flagging etc. ?

[TBoneit]

Hello
IOW I am looking for a unit that is not to expensive, doesn't need a HD in it as I am planning to re-author/edit in the PC anyway.

I already have a TBC but it isn't helping with the problem from some tapes.

The problem tapes (Many) have what I'll call flagging at the top and on some of those at random the picture may be shifted to the side on some of the lines and then be back and then shifted again always horizontally.

One basic question is: Is the problem my tapes as I see it on more than one VCR I tried playback from, S-Video out from S-VHS unit. Or is My TBC defective? It does keep recording on my current DVD Recorder from stopping at every dropout. Or is it the recorder and a better unit will do the job.

I'm using a cyberhome ch-1500 and am happy with the quality from good tapes and satellite TV. SO I may just move it up to Mom's level of the house so she can archive onto DVD. I'm guessing she could handle that as she does use a VCR and a satellite TV PVR.

I should add it doesn't matter if -R or +R I have RW disks for both formats and some Verbatim 1X to 4X -R and 2.4 to 4X +R disks available.

Many Thanks for any input
Roger

Quick Edit, I've been researching by reading old posts and Not sure if the JVC features or PAnasonoic features would do the job

[TBoneit]

Well I purchased a Pioneer DVR-531H-s from Walmart in Watchung NJ @$337 + Tax.

It is replacing my Cyberhome CH-1500 that still works.

Some thoughts Quality looks good. For Tape I look at the length and set the record time to that length (5 minute increments)

It creates much nicer menus on the DVDs.

My Workflow I'm trying out is from VCR to (optional) TBC to Vidicraft Detailer II (sharpen/enhance detail) to Pioneer to HDD then to DVD.

Editing seems easy enough. One quirk I didn't find a fix for is the way the menu breaks the video titles in the middle of a word if too long. Choice of menus. One other quibble, No S-Video cable in the box

3rd video I'm trying right now and no flagging yet. Knock Wood!

DVD recorder seems to like the same media (Same drive?) as my DVR-109 Burner. IE Memorex 16X-R seems to take about as long as it does in the computer at 12X once I account for the finalizing time. Apprx 8 minutes. According to a separate sheet of paper it should also burn -R DL disk.

Thorough Review to follow. However So far I'm liking it!

Cheers

[lordsmurf]

The Panasonic ES10 has great sync filters to fix this very problem. This is why I have one.

However, the ES10 recording quality sucks. The MPEG-2 files it makes get blocks past 2 hours, is dark, and is red shifted. Therefore I only let the signal pass through the unit into another capture card or DVD recorder.

It's almost like magic. It fixed tapes with "flagging" that I thought were impossible and I had confined to a pile of "dead tapes". My dead tapes are all now on DVD in nice quality.

Even if the recording suck, the unit has value.

[trhouse]

I had a tape that flagged and rolled vertically. The ES10 made the flagging disappear completely. The rolling became a thin, light colored bar that rolled from bottom to top but the picture did not roll. That tape came from a relative and has since been returned. I wish I had done a before and after just to show what it does.

[TBoneit]

Well so far no flagging on the tapes I've done. But sheer frustration on one of them that I had bought used from a Video rental store... The Tape must be dirty because I've had to clean the heads twice already in the first hour. Furtunately I can edit and combine to get a usable DVD out of it. The frustrtation is because I now have to sit and watch for when the heads get dirty again.

LS: I saw that somewhere here about the Panasonics. I wish I could afford to do that sort of thing myself but it is not to be.

Well I just had to clean the heads a 3rd time, I'm now trying my other VCR. I wonder if head wear from usage could be contributing to the problem? THis S-VHS unit has had lots of use in the past before I got PVRs and DVD Burners.

So far as the recording quality and so on go I'm happy and I'm happy I went with a HDD equipped model. Otherwise I be wasting disks on this copy.

Cheers

[trhouse]

Just wondering what you are using to clean the heads. Some cleaners might leave a residue that could react with the tape.

[TurboRunner]

i use isopropol alcohol to clean mine is the good to use?

[KeepItSimple]

"They" always say it's better to use denatured alcohol instead of isopropyl to clean tape heads -- I'm not sure why.

[zleepy]

Rubbing alcohol for your skin usually contains lanolin oil so your hand can glide on the skin (alcohol cleans oil and grease and drys your skin).

You can get almost pure isopropyl alcohol that's used for disinfecting a syringe.

[TBoneit]

And I thought it was because Isopropyl contains water?

Looks to me as if I will have to pull the cover and carefully & throughly clean the complete tape path to be sure. However It does seem to be the tape as it did it on two VCRs and subsequent tapes played fine so I don't think it was a residue problem.

Looks like that is what I get for buying used rental copies in the past. OTOH if I hadn't gone that route I would have far fewer tapes in my library and far fewer to convert too.

Cheers

[trhouse]

My concern was with any kind of residue that might react with the tape worsening its current condition.

[LCSHG]

TBoneit

Are you sure that your problem isn't a VHS copy protection like MV?

The Pioner recorders while very good are known to have Problems with VHS tape transfers and weak siginals.

You should also look to th LiteOn/ilo units [With Hack] It will beat a TBC

This is why many who have a Pioneer also have a LiteOn product

[Marvingj]

Panny DMR_ES10 is your best to cleaning up video on VHS otherwise, Hdd will not conform.

[oldfart13]

Egad! Lordsmurf saying something GOOD about Pannies? I must be in another dimension....

[TBoneit]

Well it wasn't MV problems, Recording continued... But I could see the picture getting worse at about 40 minutes in it was fine. A few minutes later I could see it starting to get snowy, then going to B&W versy snowy, then faded out entirely to snow (Noise)

Cleaning the heads and I could capture that same section that had gone to snow for a few minutes than faidng out with lots of noise, clean capture some more, than fading out to snow. I finally gave up.

But I'm sure it was dirty heads and not MV.

But a good thought.
I know that MV sensitivity is a problem with name brands. My old CYberhome would stop recording on dropouts, Hence my purchase of a TBC which fixed that problem. BTW it still works, I just wanted a new toy and this one does a better job on tape, I haven't seen any flagging of the VHS captures with this yet. (Knock Wood, not that I superstitious of course)
Thanks

[giby]

i have a panasonic DMR_ES10 and want to copy vhs video to dvd
but it wont let me (for my own use ) can someone please tell me how

thanks
gibby

[LCSHG]

TBoneit

[Quote]
Well it wasn't MV problems, Recording continued

----------------------------------------------------------------

From this, I assume that you feel if a tape continues to record it is not copy prtected [MV].

A tape that is copy protected [MV] will continue to record and display much of the conditions you describe. Some tapes are worse. It depends on the amount of protection the tape supplier wants on his tape, and will pay for.

[trhouse]

Have you examined the tape for any usual residue or tried cleaning the tape instead of the heads?

[TBoneit]

LCSHG: Trust me no Macrovision on this tape, I made it myself years ago. I suspecting that maybe the binder for the oxide is failing or maybe I played it after a dirty rental tape.

trhouse: I wouldn't know how to clean the whole tape. Any suggestions where or how to clean the tape?

Thanks

[trhouse]

I would contact this company and ask them if anyone near you has this machine or if they can help you directly.

http://www.datadev.com/tc490.html

[TBoneit]

A Bit out of my price range... at that price range I could buy a lot of replacements, for titles that are available of course.

Thanks anyway but the price explains why I haven't seen any in the consumer stores.

Goodbye

[TurboRunner]

no he means to find a place that uses this machine and offer a tape cleaning service you dont buy the machine you just pay them a small fee for cleaning your tape/s

[TurboRunner]

like where i live there is a rental shop that has one to clean the rental tapes and can go in there and ask them to clean my tapes for a fee

[TBoneit]

Oops, Stupid me, that thought didn't occur to me. Thanks for the clarification.

Roger T

[vhelp]

Hi TBoneit,

I'm responding to your topic here..
(from this thread)
--> Who has purchased the Pioneer 531?; main

I thought I'd add a comment because you did say you have an advc-100 ..so
I was responding based on this

In short, I have some vhs tapes (commerical movies) that produce this same
flagging (or, curl) at the top of the video (tv set) and is VERY annoying
to watch on my 20" tv set.

In the begining, I didn't realize that my ADVC-100 could cure this (weather MV
was turned on/off - doesn't matter) and in a random test, using the advc with
these tapes cured this.

So, what I am on about is like this..

Have you tried feeding these problem sources to your advc, and using the OUT
feature, direct the OUT to your dvd recorder's INPUT ??

The curling (like many other forms of distortion) are a product of MV. This
is why a user should be in receipt of two types of TBC's .. those that are
Line Based, and those that are Full Frame Based. I think there are only
two types. I could be wrong. If so, then there may be other TBC types to
be haved.

Each TBC deals with MV a certain way. Since there are many types of MV
signals/distortions, each TBC needs to be tested for such. However, it is
my experience (w/ TBC 's) that some will worse 'n the effects, like the
flagging/curling you (and I) have expereienced.

-vhelp 3471

[LCSHG]

vhelp

Interesting post
I have a Ilo DVDRHD04 [with hack]. I had VHS tapes that had serious problems even when using all sorts of copy protection devices or software.They all dissapeared when using this machine.

However
One tape [Legally Blonde, The Origina], a new tape and not dirty, had problems as discribed on this thread at the very top, approx, 1". Other than that the tape was perfect. When the Recorder was taken out of the system, everything was fine, The tape reacted with the, Flagging or curl, if ANY Recorder was placed in the system.

This has only occured in this tape of over 150. I can live with it but I'm always on the lookout for an answer.

[TBoneit]

I did know that the ADVC-100 seemed to cure that flagging problem. I hadn't even thought of truying its video out. I was hoping to do tapes quickly to save time. Even with a 3Ghz machine dv in to avi then edit and convert and author isn't super speedy.

I'll have to try placing the advc-100 in the signal path and see if it helps the next time I see that problem. OTOH I may not see this happen again since I replaced my old VCRs with a JVC HR-S9911U yesterday (Sunday) as it is supposed to cure this problem.

Cheers

[LCSHG]

TBoneit

"Quote"
I did know that the ADVC-100 seemed to cure that flagging problem.
"Unquote"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did the ADVC-100 [Compleatly] Cure the Problem at the top of the screen.
If not compleatly cured, does the tape exhibit the same problems if the recorder is taken out of the system?

[mikel]

It might also be a problem called "skew"
(vertical lines near top of screen pulling usually toward the right).

The skew control found on some VCR's controls videotape back-tension. This affects the length of the video tracks as they are "read"
(played back) from the videotape. Improper skew adjustment is indicated by flagging, or a bending and wavering of vertical lines at the top of the video frame.

If so, it is a adjustment problem with the VHS deck.
There is a small metal band with felt on it, that applies the back-tension
to the supply hub on these decks. When the pads get worn... the skewing
on the top of the screen appears. This happens much more frequently than
any problem with the tape itself. ( like edge-curl )

Industrial tape decks have skew controls to adjust for this. Consumer decks do not, and will have to adjusted by a knowledgable tech.
It is a delicate procedure but it is do-able. I just watched a video-tech
friend do this for two of my decks, and it cleared up the problem on both.

hope this helps,
mikel

ps. my standalone TBC as well as the TBC button on my JVC 9900 can
sometimes compensate for this skew....but a re-adjustment is the proper way to go.

[TBoneit]

TBoneit

"Quote"
I did know that the ADVC-100 seemed to cure that flagging problem.
"Unquote"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did the ADVC-100 [Compleatly] Cure the Problem at the top of the screen.
If not compleatly cured, does the tape exhibit the same problems if the recorder is taken out of the system?

What I meant was I didn't see that problem with captures into the computer.

I'm trying to get away with fiddling with all the different s/w in the computer, hence my trying DVD Recorders. So far overall I'm happy with the Pioneer DVD recorder and TBC-1000 and the new JVC 9911U VCR.

I had one tape that I must have been trying something when I did it, IE Oversharpened, or Over did the Gamma/color adjustments or something when I recorded it back in the 80's and the JVC/TBC/Pioneers didn't help. Then I looked at it in slo-mo and it was that way on the tape even in slo-mo... Oh well

Cheers