END of the Honda NSX

[thevoelk]

Hech, if you're asking me it was an M5 Euro I believe. Not sure if the Euro designation was because the car was made different for other parts of the world or what. If you mean BJ_M, forget I replied.

[BJ_M]

I saw one of those 12cyl Beamers the other day. Freaking awesome looking car but I hear they were not the greatest to drive..
What was the name/number of that one?....I forget.

not 12 cyl , only 6 .. you are thinking of the front engine BMW 850 12cy that came much later l...

This one is is from 1981, 6 cyl mid engine and only 450 were made ..

better view




even better view of how many of them looked





stock street they were only 277HP , but only a few were ever 'stock' -- in full trim they were 750HP

[rallynavvie]

V12 Bimmers were in the 7- and 8-series cars I think. The M1 was a ~280bhp mid-mounted straight six.

I was gonna mention too that most all of them I have ever seen have been race prepped. Nice to see a street one still out there.

[jackal70058]

I only drive the American cars.

there is no such thing as an "American car" -- in fact some toyotas have more American content than fords , etc ..

all the new gm series are made in Korea, and you would be shocked on how many American cars are actually built in Mexico and Canada ..

Most anything not made in America. But I'll never drive Toyota crap or any of those cheap ass jap cars.

[rallynavvie]

But I'll never drive Toyota crap or any of those cheap ass jap cars.

ROFLCOPTERS

I guess you must like repairing your car a lot once the warranty expires

The Japanese long ago edged out the US in performance cars, in fact probably as far back as the 80s. Now they're hunting down the European cars which are still generally the pinnacle of performance with the likes of Porsche, Ferrari, etc. And there is reason to spite our own country's manufacturers. The Escort Cosworth is an insult to Ford's American customers. Come on, an Escort that can put the hurt on a Cobra with maybe only $5k in work? Where do I sign up? But no, Ford only lets out its best vehicles in Europe and Australia. WTF is up with that? I'm pretty well let-out by American manufacturers. They're finally getting a clue with cars like the Neon SRT-4 and the Ford GT but they've still got a lot of catching up to do.

guessing you must be driving a Beretta

[hech54]

I saw one of those 12cyl Beamers the other day. Freaking awesome looking car but I hear they were not the greatest to drive..
What was the name/number of that one?....I forget.

not 12 cyl , only 6 .. you are thinking of the front engine BMW 850 12cy that came much later l...

This one is is from 1981, 6 cyl mid engine and only 450 were made ..

I know yours is an M1....it just reminded me of that 12cyl one they made a few years ago. The 12cyl one looks sort of like an updated version of the M1 though in my opinion.
They had a BBC Top Gear TV show special on the M1....I may have it here on DVD.....I'll have to root through my archives....not sure if I taped/DVD's that episode or not.

[hech54]

[quote="jackal70058"]

I only drive the American cars.

Most anything not made in America. But I'll never drive Toyota crap or any of those cheap ass jap cars.

Yea...and those cheap German cars too...like Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, BMW and VW too huh?

[BJ_M]

kind of tells the tale:



Top 10 Cars With the Best Residual Value for 2004

Want to buy a car that really holds its value? If resale value is important to you, these are the cars likely to depreciate the least during the ownership period. Below we show the percentage of its original value that each vehicle is likely to retain after five years with an annual mileage of 15,000. Keep in mind that the residual value percentages are based on the national True Market Value price, plus typical options and destination charge. A quick scan of our list shows that import nameplates rule when it comes to retaining their value, Viper and Corvette excepted. Beyond that, it's clear that luxury nameplates hold an edge as well, though the lineups of non-luxury brands like Honda, Toyota and Volkswagen are also well represented.

1. Porsche 911 — 57%


2. Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class — 53%


3. Acura NSX — 52%
Dodge Viper
Honda S2000
Mini Cooper


4. BMW Z4 — 51%
Nissan 350Z


5. BMW M3 — 50%


6. BMW 3 Series — 49%
Honda Accord
Honda Civic
Volkswagen Jetta
Volkswagen New Beetle


7. Acura RSX — 48%
Chevrolet Corvette
Lexus ES 330
Lexus GS 300
Lexus GS 430
Lexus SC 430
Mercedes-Benz CLK55 AMG
Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class
Mercedes-Benz SLK32 AMG
Toyota Camry Solara
Toyota Celica
Toyota MR2 Spyder


8. Audi TT — 47%
Infiniti G35
Mercedes-Benz CL-Class
Mercedes-Benz E-Class
Toyota Matrix
Volkswagen GTI
Volkswagen Passat


9. Acura TL — 46%
Acura TSX
BMW 5 Series
Mazda RX-8
Mercedes-Benz CL55 AMG
Porsche Boxster
Subaru Outback
Toyota Camry
Volkswagen Golf


10. Jaguar S-Type R — 45%
Lexus IS 300
Lexus LS 430
Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG
Nissan Altima
Toyota Avalon
Volvo XC70

[budz]

I only drive the American cars.

there is no such thing as an "American car" -- in fact some toyotas have more American content than fords , etc ..

all the new gm series are made in Korea, and you would be shocked on how many American cars are actually built in Mexico and Canada ..

Most anything not made in America. But I'll never drive Toyota crap or any of those cheap ass jap cars.

Back in the 80's Japanese cars were much more reliable than American made cars. Remember Lee Iacocca former CEO of Chrysler, those cars were crappy back in the 80's. I know a few years ago some HONDA models were still being manufactured in Japan. Like the CRV and ACCORDs. Some LEXUS models are now being manufactured in America like the RX SUV line. Up until a year ago they were only manufactured in Japan.

Just a bit off topic.....I'm not trying to hijack this thread.....I'm buying a Scion sometime this weekend....wonders if it's made in Japan or in US.....Anyone know?

[BJ_M]

depends which model Scion, some are US and some are Japan - I think most are japan ..

many will built in the new (2nd) ontario canada plant (well actually about 4th canada - all toyota ALUM. wheels for both japan and NA are made in BC CND for example)

[budz]

depends which model Scion, some are US and some are Japan - I think most are japan ..

many will built in the new (2nd) ontario canada plant (well actually about 4th canada - all toyota ALUM. wheels for both japan and NA are made in BC CND for example)

I'm gonna check out the xA & xB models. This is what the xA safety says: "xA is one of the few subcompacts that offers front and rear side curtain airbags, along with front seat-mounted side airbags.1 This package is available as the only factory-installed option on Scion vehicles. xA received an NHTSA 2004 Four Star Rating for driver and passenger frontal impact and side impact crash tests. Ratings are only meaningful when comparing vehicles in the same weight class.

The tC model is out of my range as far as insuring it because it's a sports coupe. It is a nice little sports car though!

[BJ_M]

they have some interesting models , they dont sell them in Canada though ...

i wonder why Toyota started this new name up .. but it is doing well i understand ...

[budz]

they have some interesting models , they dont sell them in Canada though ...

i wonder why Toyota started this new name up .. but it is doing well i understand ...

From what I've read Toyota started this Scion line of cars to attract the younger crowd. Yes the Scion cars are selling like hotcakes because of the high gas prices everyone is looking at fuel economy cars.

I was told all the Scions are currently made in Japan. I test drove the xB & xA. The xA rode smoother I guess because the car is compact. The xB has great visibility but the ride is a bit choppy. I chose the xA but I didn't drive one home because the dealer is out of them. The general manager showed me the list of cars coming on the next shipment. I was able to put down a $100.00 deposit on the car which they consider it on backorder. He said they can request 10-15 cars but will only get like 7-8 of them. He said it depends on how many Japan will give to them. If I should change my mind on purchasing the car the deposit will be refunded to me. The xA I am getting is the 2006 model. I guess the 2006 models are being released at this time.

The car should be arriving from Japan at the beginning of next month but with the way the stevedores move to unload the containers they can't give me a definite date when the car will be ready. Plus with all the customs and shit it has to go through I probably will get the car at the end of August.

[hech54]

Here is the 12cyl BMW I was talking about:

It reminds me alot of my old 1985 Toyota Supra...probably why I like it so much...

[rallynavvie]

Yeah, the E31s do look a lot like the M1 don't they?

[jackal70058]

The Scion is jap crap reincarnate. It is Toyota with another new name to cover over for all the crap they made before.

[BJ_M]

that would be on what planet other than earth ?

If you traveled around this planet - all you see in country after country is toyotas and toyotas and VW's more than anything else ...

JD POWER 2003:

Toyota Motor Sales models virtually sweep the seven truck segments, with the exception of the full-size SUV category, which is led by the Ford Expedition. "With truck sales now surpassing 50 per cent of the light-vehicle market, truck quality is critical to automakers," said Walters. "Toyota Motor Sales’ consistency in building truck models with high initial quality certainly gives them an advantage."

Of the 16 segments included in the study, Toyota and Lexus models lead nine segments, the most earned by a corporation. General Motors Corporation is the best-performing domestic manufacturer in the study, with four models earning top rankings, including the competitive premium midsize car segment. Ford Motor Company, which includes Mazda, tops three segments.

Car models ranking highest in their segment are:
Segments

Car Models
Compact Car
Toyota Corolla and Toyota Prius (tie)

Entry Midsize Car
Chevrolet Malibu

Premium Midsize Car
Buick Century

Full-Size Car
Buick LeSabre

Entry Luxury Car
Ford Thunderbird

Mid Luxury Car
Lexus GS 300/GS 430

Premium Luxury Car
Lexus LS 430

Sporty Car
Mazda Miata

Light-truck models ranking highest in their segment are:
Segments

Light-Truck Models
Compact Pickup
Toyota Tacoma

Full-Size Pickup
Toyota Tundra

Entry SUV
Toyota RAV4

Midsize SUV
Toyota Highlander

Full-Size SUV
Ford Expedition

Luxury SUV
Lexus LX 470

Compact Van
Toyota Sienna


--------------------

JD Power 2005

Toyota's Lexus SC430 was the highest-ranking vehicle for the second year in a row. Owners of the luxury coupe reported 54 problems per 100 vehicles, less than half the industry average of 118 problems per 100 vehicles.
Overall, Toyota had the top vehicles for initial quality in 10 categories, including the Toyota Prius compact car, Toyota Sienna minivan and Lexus sedans in all three luxury car categories. Toyota said that was a record number of segment awards in the study.

[BJ_M]

3 year long term reliability (number of problems per vehicle over three years of the J. D. Power study):



Lexus: 1.39
Porsche: 1.49
Lincoln: 1.51
Buick: 1.63
Cadillac: 1.75
Infiniti: 1.78
Toyota: 1.94
Mercury: 1.95
Honda: 2.01
Acura: 2.03
BMW: 2.25
Ford: 2.31
Chevrolet: 2.32
Chrysler: 2.35
Industry average: 2.37
Saturn: 2.40
Oldsmobile: 2.42
GMC: 2.45
Pontiac: 2.45
Mazda: 2.52
Hyundai: 2.60
Subaru: 2.60
Volvo: 2.66
Jaguar: 2.68
Dodge: 2.73
Nissan: 2.75
Mitsubishi: 2.78
Mercedes-Benz: 2.83
Saab: 2.86
Jeep: 2.89
Suzuki: 2.92
Audi: 3.12
Daewoo: 3.18
Isuzu: 3.31
VW: 3.35
Mini: 3.83
Land Rover: 3.95
Kia: 3.97

[thecoalman]

Premium Midsize Car
Buick Century

Full-Size Car
Buick LeSabre

I got a Regal, 3.8, stock. FrontWD and will do a burnout from a standing start. 8)

You could be cruising down the Interstate going
90-100 and not even know it.

[BJ_M]

both of the above are made in Canada primarily (if not all) as a note of interest ..

[thecoalman]

both of the above are made in Canada primarily (if not all) as a note of interest ..

Ohhh..man you just ruined my week.

J/k it's a good car for those of you who harp about the quality
of Japanese and Euoropean cars. I had a Century previous to
this with 198,000 on it, still ran like clockwork when I sold it.

One question has VW been able to produce a door handle
that doesn't break yet. A few of my buddies had GTI's,
Scirrocco's (one wolfsburg edition), a few other models,
everyone had broken door handles.

[budz]

The Scion is jap crap reincarnate. It is Toyota with another new name to cover over for all the crap they made before.

Would you stop with the Jap word!!!! I take offense to that because I'm a Japanese American. I'm sure you wouldn't like to be called "HAOLE" which means Caucasian!

Whether you like it or not jackal70058 the Japanese Car manufacturers along with the Europeans make better automobiles than any other American manufacturer. :P

[hech54]

both of the above are made in Canada primarily (if not all) as a note of interest ..

Ohhh..man you just ruined my week.

J/k it's a good car for those of you who harp about the quality
of Japanese and Euoropean cars. I had a Century previous to
this with 198,000 on it, still ran like clockwork when I sold it.

One question has VW been able to produce a door handle
that doesn't break yet. A few of my buddies had GTI's,
Scirrocco's (one wolfsburg edition), a few other models,
everyone had broken door handles.

My old VW door handles broke alot too. We used to rummage around the junk yard boxes of VW handles looking for the ones made in Germany.....they lasted longer. The Scirocco was completely made in Germany and it's door handles took the longest to wear out.
They completely got rid of those handles now.....they are totally different.

[hech54]

The Scion is jap crap reincarnate. It is Toyota with another new name to cover over for all the crap they made before.

Would you stop with the Jap word!!!! I take offense to that because I'm a Japanese American. I'm sure you wouldn't like to be called "HAOLE" which means Caucasian!

Whether you like it or not jackal70058 the Japanese Car manufacturers along with the Europeans make better automobiles than any other American manufacturer. :P

Why do I get the feeling that one of jackal70058's parents are EXACTLY like him and have instilled these views into his head.
I've seen many of these people before. The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.
Many people in the 80's asked me:
"How can you drive a VW?"

Me: "Have you ever driven one?"

Them: "Oh hell no....they're junk!!"

Me: "How do you know they are junk if you've never even sat in one?"


I grew up in a failing steel mill town....full of people just like jackal70058....

[smearbrick1]

The Scion is jap crap reincarnate. It is Toyota with another new name to cover over for all the crap they made before.

Would you stop with the Jap word!!!! I take offense to that because I'm a Japanese American. I'm sure you wouldn't like to be called "HAOLE" which means Caucasian! :)

Whether you like it or not jackal70058 the Japanese Car manufacturers along with the Europeans make better automobiles than any other American manufacturer. :P :wink:

Why do I get the feeling that one of jackal70058's parents are EXACTLY like him and have instilled these views into his head.
I've seen many of these people before. The apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.
Many people in the 80's asked me:
"How can you drive a VW?"

Me: "Have you ever driven one?"

Them: "Oh hell no....they're junk!!"

Me: "How do you know they are junk if you've never even sat in one?"


I grew up in a failing steel mill town....full of people just like jackal70058.... :roll:

Jackal sounds like my grandmother (Grandma? It that you?). She always says about how she would never buy anything not American. Funny thing is, she drives a Jeep Grand Cherokee. You know how many parts for that vehicle are not made in this country? She still doesn't get it. I don't think Jackal has the slightest idea what he's talking about. Jealous mostly. He sees his other post-teen friends driving their fast and furious Honda Civics or there tricked out 1st Gen Mitsubishis and is just jealous. He probably owns a Chevy Cavalier with all the Pep Boys accessories he could possibly buy. I bet it even has one of those ridiculous wings on it. How about a stainless steel "performance" muffler with a 5" tip? Getting warm?

It's quite obvious you are young and have no experience with cars. Do me a favor... go out and do some solid, unbiased research on this subject. I guarantee your views will change...

Stop with the JAP comments, you ignorant hillbilly. I'm not Japanese, but its still offensive.

[thecoalman]

Whether you like it or not jackal70058 the Japanese Car manufacturers along with the Europeans make better automobiles than any other American manufacturer. :P

Hmmm, guess it depends on how you look at it, the list BJ_M posted above tells a different tale. One very interesting thing to note is that of the top cars listed Buick is the only one that would be affordable to the average consumer. Most of those cars listed are well into the $35-60K bracket.

Another thing if you look at the second list most of the American manufacturers appear near the top of the list....
There's only two middway and down, That'sa some pretty good company Dodge and Jeep have there at the "bottom O' the barrrel".

Dodge: 2.73
Nissan: 2.75
Mitsubishi: 2.78
Mercedes-Benz: 2.83
Saab: 2.86
Jeep: 2.89
Suzuki: 2.92
Audi: 3.12
Daewoo: 3.18
Isuzu: 3.31
VW: 3.35
Mini: 3.83
Land Rover: 3.95
Kia: 3.97

[BJ_M]

both of the above are made in Canada primarily (if not all) as a note of interest ..

Ohhh..man you just ruined my week.

J/k it's a good car for those of you who harp about the quality
of Japanese and Euoropean cars. I had a Century previous to
this with 198,000 on it, still ran like clockwork when I sold it.

One question has VW been able to produce a door handle
that doesn't break yet. A few of my buddies had GTI's,
Scirrocco's (one wolfsburg edition), a few other models,
everyone had broken door handles.

funny - i had one also and had 2 broken door handles .. weird ...

also - why is it why you see a vw or audi , 1/2 the time 1 tail light is burned out ? even on a failrly new one ? I see that ALL the time ..... VW I see is near the bottom of the list on reliability, but you sure see lots of them around ...

[BJ_M]

Mitsubishi has been having problems for years -- a huge lawsuit over faked tests and hiding problems was launched in japan (don't know if in usa also) and several were fired and i think one commited suicide.

Even Chrysler dumped its Mitsubishi stock ..

It is amaizing how much better Jag has become .. those used to be a money pit, but ford has really changed things around .. there is so much crossover on models w/ mazda (mostly owned by ford) and ford - it is a blurred line who is who .. but makes some of the ford models excellent buys (like the new focus's (specially the SE) , the ford 500 is really a volvo (who ford also owns) and except for its weak assed engine is a nice car .. And the Crown Victoria is THE police car used by everyone (though dodge is also now making plice cars again with the magnum model) ..

[SquirrelDip]

... it is a blurred line who is who ...

Good line - pretty much sums things up...


Oh... I owned a Chevette once... Therefore all American cars are crap...

:P

[hech54]

both of the above are made in Canada primarily (if not all) as a note of interest ..

Ohhh..man you just ruined my week.

J/k it's a good car for those of you who harp about the quality
of Japanese and Euoropean cars. I had a Century previous to
this with 198,000 on it, still ran like clockwork when I sold it.

One question has VW been able to produce a door handle
that doesn't break yet. A few of my buddies had GTI's,
Scirrocco's (one wolfsburg edition), a few other models,
everyone had broken door handles.

funny - i had one also and had 2 broken door handles .. weird ...

also - why is it why you see a vw or audi , 1/2 the time 1 tail light is burned out ? even on a failrly new one ? I see that ALL the time ..... VW I see is near the bottom of the list on reliability, but you sure see lots of them around ...

My Scirocco had a weird tail light as well....but that one had AWESOME door handles..
I've never had problems with any of my VW's. Rabbits, a Golf GTI and a Scirocco. They all ran daily and never left me stranded. Most reliable car(well....one of the most reliable) was my "Green Weenie" 1983 Rabbit Diesel. Sold it with 178,000 miles....I only put struts and brakes on it....and the occasional door handle...