avi (DV) to mpeg-2 (DVD) using TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 - Help!!

[TheGame7]

Hi,

I am in the process of converting some avi's to DVD using the said program, TMPGEnc but have some issues over some settings before I encode and lose the avi "captures" for good.

In the end, I hope to have two templates which I can use time and time again for my two distinct sources.

So let me begin by explaining my two sources:

Firstly, both are "captured" to computer using the Canopus ADVC-55 which is an Analogue to Digital Convertor connected to the PC via firewire.

Now, my first source is VHS - I use a JVC VCR with a TBC.

The second is live television from the digital sattelite service here in Britain, SKY+ (built in PVR, similar to Tivo in the States).

Both devices are connected to my A-to-D Convertor by an S-Video cable and Audio leads.

Once I have "captured" the footage on to the computer, I then need to encode it accordingly in TMPGEnc.

I have read Lordsmurf's excellent guide on DigitalFAQ.com but have a few questions on how I should be altering it for my sources as I believe he typically converts VHS anime.

The settings I am confused about are...

i) Resolution - I was up to date with the scene about a year ago so understood these settings back then but have now lost touch and I remember that half D1 (I think it was) came into question here.

Now with VHS, the source is already half D1 so it makes sense to leave it this way and select 352 x (rather than x 480 since I am in the UK and we use PAL).

But for my avi's from the Digital Sattelite, should I use the full resolution of 704 x or will half d1 again suffice - does it depend on how the broadcaster transmits it? How do I find this out?

ia) On a side note, what resolution do retail DVDs use and will the fact I use half D1 lead to any compatiability issues on any players or television - I guess I am curious to know how it fills the screen out?

ii) Maximum bitrate - I guess this leads on from the previous question. DigitalFAQ's guide uses CQ with a setting of 80 and a maximum bitrate of 4000 - If we determine that I should use full resolution for my sattelite footage, should I double this to 8000?

iia) Another side question, does using CQ and setting the maximum bitrate in this way guarantee that TMPGEnc will not create a file size greater than what is needed for DVD? If so, how does it take audio into consideration? And if I opt for VBR, what are the benefits? Will two passes suffice and how do I calculate what to use as the average bit rate as there is no automatic calculator in this version (but it has been introduced in TMPGEnc 3 XPress).

iib) Another question I have just come up with, does TMPG 3 Xpress have a CQ encoding setting exactly the same as this one?

iii) Again with DigitalFAQs guide, this time the advanced tab - I am guessing that all my source will be interlaced as most video is, including the television broadcasts - am I correct in this assumption?

But the field order, how do I know if its Top field first or Bottom down? By default, TMPGEnc selects Bottom down. What does this mean and which should I go for?

iv) The last question about video now, the Source Aspect Ratio, does it matter which 4:3 option I choose, e.g. just plain 4:3 or 4:3 PAL, etc.

v) The last question then, to do with audio - If I select PCM in TMPGEnc, does this mean I am not encoding the sound at all and consequently, this enables me to select the elementary streams and the later encode the audio with another program (to get AC3 sound) and use this in conjunction with the encoded video?

If this is the case, by doing so am I sacrificing video quality as it estimates bitrates and the space available on DVD-R expecting audio to remain PCM?

Sorry for the long winded post but I hope I have made myself clear and given the possibility to answer each section in turn to improve communication.

Thanks in advance.

Much appreciated.

TheGame7

[TheGame7]

up

[jimmalenko]

i) Resolution - I was up to date with the scene about a year ago so understood these settings back then but have now lost touch and I remember that half D1 (I think it was) came into question here.

Now with VHS, the source is already half D1 so it makes sense to leave it this way and select 352 x (rather than x 480 since I am in the UK and we use PAL).

But for my avi's from the Digital Sattelite, should I use the full resolution of 704 x or will half d1 again suffice - does it depend on how the broadcaster transmits it? How do I find this out?

There's a big debate regarding VHS and the opinion of a lot of people is that there's no real point going above Half D1. That said, there's the other school of thought who say that you should cap at as big a resolution as possible, then consider a resize down when encoding to MPEG. My personal 2c on this is to do a couple of samples (for both sources) and make up your own mind. After all, it is you who is going to benefit / suffer from your handiwork, and not us ...

ia) On a side note, what resolution do retail DVDs use and will the fact I use half D1 lead to any compatiability issues on any players or television - I guess I am curious to know how it fills the screen out?

I've only ever seen Half D1 or Full D1 on the DVDs I've purchased. Half D1 is fully compliant to the DVD spec and as such, all players should support it without a hassle.

ii) Maximum bitrate - I guess this leads on from the previous question. DigitalFAQ's guide uses CQ with a setting of 80 and a maximum bitrate of 4000 - If we determine that I should use full resolution for my sattelite footage, should I double this to 8000?

Again, a few different schools of thought on this. There's info around that suggests that you'll see no visible difference using a bitrate above 4000kbps for Half D1, or 8000kbps for Full D1. Personally I like 2-Pass VBR over CQ as I understand it better and I like the fact that the result will literally be within a few MBs of what I calculate, every time. Also, I'll lower the res if I want to get a certain running time on the one disc but the bitrate will be too low for Full D1.

iia) Another side question, does using CQ and setting the maximum bitrate in this way guarantee that TMPGEnc will not create a file size greater than what is needed for DVD? If so, how does it take audio into consideration? And if I opt for VBR, what are the benefits? Will two passes suffice and how do I calculate what to use as the average bit rate as there is no automatic calculator in this version (but it has been introduced in TMPGEnc 3 XPress).

I've only played with CQ a couple of times, but from my experience it can be very unpredictable in its final size. You actually have to take audio into account with your bitrate calculations. VBR is better IMO if you distinctly want to hit a given file-size, whereas CQ is possibly better if you want to optimise quality, but file-size isn't that important. That said, there's a possibility that CQ will distribute the bitrate better and only use as much as is required, and not use bitrate unnecessarily. I use the VideoHelp Bitrate Calculator, but there's another one here if you want to try something different.

iii) Again with DigitalFAQs guide, this time the advanced tab - I am guessing that all my source will be interlaced as most video is, including the television broadcasts - am I correct in this assumption?

I'd say so. Watch your caps in a software player that doesn't deinterlace and you'll soon find out !

I'm pretty sure there's a guide or methodology on this site for determining if your caps are interlaced or not.

But the field order, how do I know if its Top field first or Bottom down? By default, TMPGEnc selects Bottom down. What does this mean and which should I go for?

My ADVC-100 needs BFF (Bottom down). I'm pretty sure there's a guide or methodology on this site for determining if your caps are TFF or BFF. Do a couple of sample encodes of some motion scenes with both settings and burn to RW and I'm sure you'll see what you have - the wrong field order (in my experience) causes "ghosting" or an extreme blurriness around the edges of moving objects.

The last question then, to do with audio - If I select PCM in TMPGEnc, does this mean I am not encoding the sound at all and consequently, this enables me to select the elementary streams and the later encode the audio with another program (to get AC3 sound) and use this in conjunction with the encoded video?

Yes, sort-of .... You could select ES (Video Only) to get your M2V file, then extract the audio from your capped file and encode to AC3 seperately using your tool of choice. Then use your authoring tool to join them back together.

If this is the case, by doing so am I sacrificing video quality as it estimates bitrates and the space available on DVD-R expecting audio to remain PCM?

See my answer above re: bitrate calculators. You actually set what your audio's bitrate will be in the final product, and this forms the basis of your calculations.


I couldn't answer all questions, but if I do say so myself, I've done a bang-up job of answering most

Bear in mind that this is by no means the only way to do things, but I'd recommend that you look at this guide and possibly even this guide. If anything they might give you some tips about how to improve your process, and/or an insight into using a bitrate calculator and all the trials and tribulations of the ever-present "quality vs filling the disc up" conundrum that we all face.

[TheGame7]

Thanks for all the info. You must have taken some time to compile that response and I thank you.

I have got hold of a working trial of TMPGEnc XPress now and was able to use VBR and its built in calculator makes things so much easier. Though it does take a hell of a long time - 10 hours for a 1-2 hour clip. I have motion estimate at the highest setting, by decreasing this will it make encoding a lot quicker?

Now I just have to work out how to find out if I should use top down or bottom up encoding. The new TMPEG does seem to go through some field order process at the start when adding the clip, but not sure if it automatically detects the right one.

As a matter of fact, the encoding which is in the 2nd hour of 10 right now was on bottom up by default but I changed it to top down thinking this is the norm.

Better cancel it, research and get it right first time to save a hell of a lot of time and dissapointment!

Anyone got a link to how to find out?

Thanks.

TheGame7

[jimmalenko]

I have got hold of a working trial of TMPGEnc XPress now and was able to use VBR and its built in calculator makes things so much easier. Though it does take a hell of a long time - 10 hours for a 1-2 hour clip. I have motion estimate at the highest setting, by decreasing this will it make encoding a lot quicker?

I normally have that value set at Motion Estimate (fast). For a source such as DV, unless you are absolutely cutting edge with your bitrate, I honestly don't think you'll noticed the difference quality-wise, but you'll certainly notice it time-wise.

Now I just have to work out how to find out if I should use top down or bottom up encoding. The new TMPEG does seem to go through some field order process at the start when adding the clip, but not sure if it automatically detects the right one.

As a matter of fact, the encoding which is in the 2nd hour of 10 right now was on bottom up by default but I changed it to top down thinking this is the norm.

Better cancel it, research and get it right first time to save a hell of a lot of time and dissapointment!

Anyone got a link to how to find out?

Forum search ? Google ? here ? here ? here ? here ? here ? here ?

and that was just the first of three pages of an All-Forums search on "Determine Field Order"



Probably the easiest way is to use the Source Range function to isolate your footage down to a minute or so, so that you're only waiting about 5 minutes instead of 10 hours

[TheGame7]

Sorry to bring this up again but have been following a guide in the guides forum about using TMPGEnc to convert AVI to DVD.

However, for the final stage of encoding settings, he states that for PAL we should select Progressive.

However, since the source is Interlaced (which I now know TMPGEnc Xpress automatically detects for me along with the field order!!) should I keep it this way?

Are most retail DVDs here in UK's PAL format Interlaced too?

And if I was to change it to progressive on this final settings screen, am I then to alter the filter settings for deinterlacing - usually better not used as quality detiriates..

[jimmalenko]

If source is interlaced, keep interlaced.