VideoHelp Forum

Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors. Consider supporting us by disable your adblocker or Try ConvertXtoDVD and convert all your movies to DVD. Free trial ! :)
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 4
FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 112
Thread
  1. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    Panny

    Quote Quote  
  2. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    JVC

    Quote Quote  
  3. You have to post your frame samples one at a time, editing your post over and over to add additional pictures. When you name the images, don't use any spaces. When choosing frames to grab with VirtualDub, find a scene with little or no movement. It will be easier to find a frame that doesn't have the interlaced comb effects you are seeing there (due to the differences in the field content caused by the movement).

    As for your captures, the Panasonic is adjusting the VHS source black level down by 7.5 IRE, the JVC is not. That's one reason the color looks more dramatic. Darker blacks make the color appear richer.

    I know you are set on using an all-in-one machine, but you really could do way better with a separate, high quality S-VHS playback VCR. Once you are done with your transfers, you can store or sell the unit to save space. As far as what DVD recorder to use, I'd return the Panasonic combo unit and get the new Pioneer DVR-533H at Wal Mart (they are popping up in Texas already and should be available everywhere very soon). 80GB hard drive, super high quality XP+ (15Mbps) encoding to the hard drive with second pass step-down encoding to disc, dual layer DVD-R burning, and has the most comprehensive input picture control adjustments (black level, color, hue, white level, noise reduction, Y/C separation, etc.) available. It will run about the same as what you are spending on these combo units, and definitely will help you produce better results than what you are getting here.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Slacker,

    That is strange about the component output looking worse than composite. What length and type of cable are you using? Component output has higher frequencies and can benefit from coaxial cable instead of the standard wire red, white, and yellow cable.

    Some programs like Sonic CinePlayer do not capture stills from the 704 x 480 format very well.

    Original THX test pattern,


    Still capture using CinePlayer


    Still capture using VirtualDubMod


    Gshelly61

    The Pioneer sounds interesting. I was a bit dismayed after the service manual arrived for the JVC JX-C7 color corrector. Composite to RGB and back to composite so the process can be repeated again in the recorder seems redundant and could not be doing the image much good. That the Pioneer can do it with only one conversion sounds better. I may have to see if a service manual is available for the 220 or 533 just to see what limits the range of the adjustments.
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    trhouse,

    I hope we're talking apples and apples. There are five cables which make up my component bundle into the LCD display, (red, blue and green) and (white and red).


    gshelley61,

    I know you are right about going the svhs route and then springing for one of these newer units! I may do that! My local video store is going to have my !%$@# with all these returns I'm doing.

    On another note,

    I notice with both the Panasonic and the JVC that the vobs are not splitting precisely. Is this common across all units? (Using a PC capture card eliminates this issue.) When I use Mpeg Video Wizard to stitch them back together I have gaps. Am I doing something wrong? Or is this the nature of the animal? If so, this seems like a major flaw.

    Pioneer DVR-533H. Hmmm... 15 mbps? Geez.
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    And gshelley61,

    Since you brought up the mbps number of the Pioneer, would it help any to capture using xp vs sp?

    I believe it was Zoran... who brought up the black level adjustments. I'll fiddle with those while I'm considering my other options.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Yes, you are doing it correctly. I sometimes see the red, white, yellow composite cables used instead of the red, blue, green component cable. Red and white are audio.

    If you want to compare XP, SP, and LP captures here is a thread in which still and motion tests were done in all three modes,

    https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263530
    Quote Quote  
  8. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    Thanks trhouse.

    Must be my old eyes (I'm really NOT that old) but I can't tell the difference between xp and sp, lp yes. I'm sure if I nitpicked a video with a magnifying glass and gobs of electronic equipment I could find LOTS to talk about. However, as far as enjoying a video in front of a 35" TV with the family, I don't think all that nitpicking really matters. I guess I'm only anal about the things that count, to me of course.

    Now when I purchase that Sony hdr-fx1 and have something to nitpick about... Other than that, I can't think of anything which REQUIRES 15 mbps of perfectly encoded material.

    Personally, I think video is going smaller, not larger (in my lifetime), so I'm not so sure how relevant SUPER perfection is. The human eye is only capable of so much.

    When i watch video in a small window on my laptop, or on my son's PSP, or on my cell phone, resolution and macroblocking and bitrate all fall by the wayside IMO.

    I still might purchase that vhs as gshelley61 suggested though.
    Quote Quote  
  9. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    Very screwy,

    I placed my first vhs transfer to dvd into my laptop and ran it through some software programs, i.e. Mpeg Video Wizard, Intervideo WinDVD Creator, ShowBiz, DVD Decrypter. They all read and evaluated the contents of the disc improperly.

    This listing below is IMPOSSIBLE as I am using a single sided +r disc.



    Any ideas?
    Quote Quote  
  10. Is the disk finalized?

    Here is what Decrypter provides typically from a VHS capture. This a finalized dvd-r.

    Quote Quote  
  11. The one thing I know the Panasonic is good for are old tapes that have sync problems. So I think with a good VCR then hooked up to a Panasonic with a TBC and a JVC DVD recorder will be the best.
    Quote Quote  
  12. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    trhouse,

    Yes it is finalized. (But I will verify again.) I've never really experienced this before. Weird.
    Quote Quote  
  13. I took the MV5S back about 10 minutes ago and exchanged it for the Panasonic ES30VS. I recorded the same tape on both units and it was no contest, the ES30VS BLEW AWAY the JVC in quality, i.e. color, detail, lack of blurriness during motion scenes. I was really amazed. I'm not saying that Panasonic has the best encoder or whatever. But I AM saying that in the VCR/DVD recorder combo units, there is no contest, the ES30VS rules. I think Panasonic sprung for a better VCR than JVC.
    slacker,

    I am glad that you finally found a DVD recorder that will make you happy for years to come.

    As many members from our forum have experienced, you also have discovered first hand the quality of the new 12 bit Panasonic encoder…the eventual difference in the quality of the VCR’s has little to do with the performance of the machines that you have tested.

    You are right about the XP+ recording mode. With a good encoder you can hardly see the difference between XP and SP, especially when converting VHS tapes. Even when I am converting Betacam SP and DVCam, I can hardly notice any difference that is worth worrying about. You have correctly pointed out that the XP+ would probably be helpful only for capturing Hi-Def camera footage.
    Quote Quote  
  14. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by zorankarapancev
    the eventual difference in the quality of the VCR’s has little to do with the performance of the machines that you have tested.
    WTF?

    The VCR is the most important piece of the equation when playing tapes to be converted. A poor VCR results in a poor transfer. This is the main reason combo units are undesirable, they almost ALWAYS use something of lower quality on the VHS side.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  15. Member ejai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    New York USA
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by zorankarapancev
    slacker,

    I am glad that you finally found a DVD recorder that will make you happy for years to come.

    As many members from our forum have experienced, you also have discovered first hand the quality of the new 12 bit Panasonic encoder…the eventual difference in the quality of the VCR’s has little to do with the performance of the machines that you have tested.
    Another happy customer here! The JVC machines are good for vhs tapes where noise is present. As for over all clarity and picture quality I feel the Panasonic machines do a better job.
    Do unto others....with a vengeance!
    Quote Quote  
  16. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    In the old days, we argued Fords and Chevys. Now it's Panasonics and JVCs (the same company I might add).

    Until my finalized discs work perfectly, the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned. And I truly need to find an efficient way of ripping, editing and re-authoring these discs. These dvd recorders are not made with that in mind. They should be.
    Quote Quote  
  17. zorankarapancev wrote:
    the eventual difference in the quality of the VCR’s has little to do with the performance of the machines that you have tested.
    WTF?

    The VCR is the most important piece of the equation when playing tapes to be converted. A poor VCR results in a poor transfer. This is the main reason combo units are undesirable, they almost ALWAYS use something of lower quality on the VHS side.
    You should read carefully before you respond to the posts:

    “…The eventual difference in the quality of the VCR’s has little to do with the performance of the MACHINES THAT YOU HAVE TESTED.”

    I didn’t talk in general terms about VCR’s, but specifically about these two combo models…and it is easily verifiable: connect ANY other VHS (SVHS) VCR to these combo units and make a test. You will get the SAME difference in the recording quality.
    Quote Quote  
  18. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by zorankarapancev
    connect ANY other VHS (SVHS) VCR to these combo units and make a test. You will get the SAME difference in the recording quality.
    Not even remotely true. The combo VCRs are very poor compared to even a decent VHS machine from Sharp or Panasonic, or the S-VHS units from JVC.

    Combo VCRs are of rather low quality. Low quality signals are full of noise, and noisy signals confuse the encoders, and a confused encoder makes MPEG files full of artifacts.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  19. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    Actually,

    I think my PC Emuzed hardware mpeg encoder captures better than either dvd recorder. But I'm not in a position to prove it YET. I think I will hook up this new ES30VS to my laptop in a couple of days and see what happens.

    As far as the VCR in the ES30VS it is HUGELY better than my 10 year old Panasonic and JVC VCRs. When I watch a vhs tape on my Aquos LCD I am extremely impressed. The tapes look like I shot them yesterday on my Hi-8 or newer. It's enough for me. I'm sure a dedicated svhs unit would be even better.

    ES30VS using FR mode set to 2h5m

    Quote Quote  
  20. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    And

    MV5S using FR mode set to 2h5m

    Quote Quote  
  21. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    Would XP mode yield a better picture?
    Quote Quote  
  22. Originally Posted by slacker
    Would XP mode yield a better picture?
    Probably. There definitely would be less compression artifacts during motion sequences. For hand held camcorder footage, I always use XP. Since the image is really never "still" because the camera is hand held, the encoder eats up lots of bitrate because each frame is different. Even the background shifts constantly (even if it is slight).
    Quote Quote  
  23. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    I think the MV5S image here look great. They are not too dark, and are probably VERY accurate to the VHS tapes (which tend to run a little low on black/contrast as a format anyway). The color looks good too. Not everything is "vivid colors" in the real world either.

    The Panasonic images here are just very dark and have a red-shift saturation that I find entirely unacceptable.

    In the last pair of images, the woman has hair on the JVC, but this dark blob stuck to her head on the Panasonic. The JVC pink shirt is very cloth like, but the Panasonic pink shirt has compression artifacts from color augmentation.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  
  24. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    Dang...

    You guys are good! You realize I'm going to wind up handing all this over to a pro once I stop beating around the bush?

    I really do appreciate all your input...
    Thank you.
    Quote Quote  
  25. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    Aagh. I hit the submit key to quickly.

    gshelley61,

    If all my VHS tapes are 2 hours long (generally) and I record in XP mode, would you recommend splitting and saving on two discs (dual layer is not an option now) or re-encoding down to something like 352x480 and fitting on one disc using something like TmpGEnc?
    Quote Quote  
  26. Slacker,

    What software are you using?

    I have not used much software since the recorder arrived but did use Sonic MyDVD Studio Deluxe 6 to edit a dvd-r which was a VHS capture from the recorder.

    It loaded the file, some trimming was done, and new chapters added, then the new file was burned to a dvd-rw. It worked fine. Your comment about 704 x 480 format made me curious so I went back and used VirtualDubMod to grap a frame from that disk. MyDVD changed the format to 720 x 480.

    Chapter points are added about every five minutes when capturing with the recorder. I have no idea what happens to these original chapter points because MyDVD does not show that they are there. I just add new chapters and menus as if it were a capture from my old Adaptec.
    Quote Quote  
  27. I should have a 80GB Pioneer DVR-531H-S on hand to check out in a week or so. It's identical to the new 533, except does not have DV firewire input. I've also got a used Sony RDR-HX900 on the way. I'm interested in testing the 15Mbps hard drive recording feature that both of these units have. I think that may be the answer to encoding single layer discs with 2 hours of hand held camcorder footage without having lots of compression artifacts. The second VBR encoding pass from 15Mbps down to a lower average bitrate should be superior to a 2 hour single pass hybrid VBR encode (in theory), but we shall see...
    Quote Quote  
  28. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    trhouse,

    This whole thing started with my Media Center laptop (which came with an Emuzed TV/PVR capture card)...

    I originally started with Intervideo WinDVD Creator about a year ago. It's actually not as bad as this site purports it to be. I've always received clean encodes with everything I've dumped into it. The only drawback is you only have two or three dvd templates to work with and most settings are hidden from you. I still like the finished products though.

    After some mechanical issues with my Emuzed, I started using Movie Mill for TV captures, as well as VHS captures. As you know, more of the settings are available for adjustment, i.e. bitrate, resolution. The captures have always been excellent through the Emuzed device. Everything comes out the way it goes in!

    The laptop also came with the Roxio Digital suite which is terrible all the way around. I tried it for captures, editing, authoring. Yuck!

    Arcsoft ShowBiz DVD 2 came with my HP Lightscribe DVD burner purchase about a month ago. I like it, although I am not sure yet about how well their encoder works. I do like their authoring assets, much better than Intervideo. I have heard good things and bad. More testing on this to be sure.

    MPEG Video Wizard I've been using for about a year. Love it! Clean, that's all I can say.

    For editing, MPEG Video Wizard I've been using for about a year. Love it! Clean, that's all I can say.

    VirtualDub-MPEG I use for viewing frames. That's all.

    I heard so many bad reports on Nero I'm afraid to even try their trial. Since Intervideo, Roxio and DVD Decrypter burn fine, and Nerovision Express gets terrible reviews, I really have no reason to mucky up my system.

    I tried the TmpGEnc products and I like them a lot. If not for the registration process I would have purchased them a long time ago. I will probably go with their products now that I need something to rip, re-encode and author these recorder discs. The poor man's Vegas!

    So Sonic MyDVD re-encoded your video. I have heard terrible things about Sonic and their products. I have never personally used their wares. What has been your experience?
    Quote Quote  
  29. Member slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    SF, CA, USA
    Search Comp PM
    gshelley61,

    You need $1000 worth of new hardware to answer my re-encoding question? Hmmm....
    Quote Quote  
  30. Originally Posted by slacker
    gshelley61,

    You need $1000 worth of new hardware to answer my re-encoding question? Hmmm....



    No, I buy and sell gear for fun (and to make a few bucks to support my video and home theater hobby). I check out lots of equipment and share what I find on the forum. I acquired the Sony last week, and the Pioneer became available today so I got it (I might keep that one...)
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads