To Adam (Moderator)

[Trenton_Net]

Hi adam!

In one of your posts you said "2: The correct way to do a film to pal transfer is to simply speed up the film by %4. You do not add an additional frame. Similarly you have the option of lowering the pitch of the audio by %4 to counteract the speedup. Sometimes the pitch is adjusted and sometimes it isnt, it depends on the nature of the source. I think that it is often preferable not to adjust the pitch if the focus of the film is on audio, such as concert footage and such. "

Thanks for your help! I was wondering if there was a way to do this using a program like Tmpgenc? In theory, I knew that this had to be done, but I was puzzled on what to do. If I simply changed the frame rate in most programs, it added a extra "repeat" frame to boost the framerate, but because I don't know the in's and out's of tmpgenc, I might have missed something which allows you to change the speed of the movie and audio?

Thanks,

[adam]

It is my understanding that no mpeg encoder will add or remove frames unless you specifically tell it to. If you convert from 24fps to 25fps in TMPGenc than it should just be speeding the rate at which it plays, not adding an extra frame per sec to the movie.

Check the playtime of your resulting mpg after converting from 24 to 25fps. Is the playtime shorter? If so then your film was simply sped up as it should have been. If your source is interlaced try reversing the field order in the advanced tab. Wrong field order might be what is causing that pause.

[Truman]

I am not sure about this. I did a test with TMPG and converted a clip from 25 fps to 50 fps. The play time is the same. So I assume, TMPG duplicates frames.
The only filter I know, that speed up is AssumeFPS filter, that comes with Avisynth.

[Trenton_Net]

Well, I guess its too much trouble to try to change it? What I wanted was to record a xvcd in PAL mode. But my Pioneer 343 only plays formats that are of standard frame rates and screensizes. So if I do PAL resolution, but change the frame rate to 29 or 23, it plays it back with the wrong aspect ratio.

So my only recorse is to encode it with standard framerates, but that means I get the doubled frames.

But thanks for your help, if someone figures it out they can post it here.

I was also wondering if CCE was considerably better than TMPGENC for creating VBR xvcds in Mpeg1 format? I usualy use Tmpgenc because it has alot of good features, while CCE seems to be the bare minimum. I don't like to resize and frameserver too much, but if the quality was noticable with a 3 pass on CCE compared to 2 pass, I might consider doing it.

[adam]

Well I run a couple tests and it appears TMPGenc does add frames when converting from film to pal. Sorry about that.

Use virtual dub instead. After loading your file click video/framerate. Click on change to and type in 25 frames per sec. Now frameserve to TMPGenc and encode normally. Follow this guide if you need help frameserving. http://www.doom9.org/virtualdub_procedures.htm#Frameserving

When I used this process the playtime of the pal clip was
%4 shorter, as to be expected. Also when I ran both source and output clips through a bitrate viewer the # of frames were the same, so apparantly nothing was added. The playback also looked normal.

About cce vs TMPGenc you'll get different opinions depending on who you ask. I don't know how high a bitrate you are going to use on these xvcds but what I can tell you is that cce doesnt handle low bitrate mpeg1 as well as TMPGenc does. I think overall cce is better at svcds and xvcds as long as you use a relatively high bitrate. But I don't think your going to see a huge difference between the encoders, certainly not enough to warrant the purchase of $4000-6000 software.

[Trenton_Net]

Thanks,

So when I do this conversion, how would you recommend streching the sound to match the video? I can always import it into a program like Cool Edit, however, just using the value 4% isn't as accurate, as compared to software like vertual dub or tmpgenc which might be able to do this automaticly.

At the very least, I hope to get an accurate play time so I can make the audio exactly the same length?

[Shabubu]

After you've stretched the movie in vdub scroll to the end, at the bottom will be the actual movie length in frames and time... this can then be used in cooledit.

[adam]

Increasing the speed by %4 in any wav editor really should be accurate enough. I believe the actual number is %4.166 but don't quote me on that. If you encoded both audio and video correctly they should sync fine. This is essentially how professional film to pal conversions are done.

Don't forget to lower the pitch by the same % you increase the speed also.

[vitualis]

Not too sure on the lowering pitch thing...

I've tried a number of methods and it always turns out poorly.

Regards.