Going for hardware assisted encoding...tips?

[smoki]

I currently have a Leadtek Winfast 2000 Expert, does a good job but i have the feeling that the mpeg2 output is not standard: Tmpgenc dvd author complains about GOP being too long which can result in a non-standard DVD. And this is when i use the "DVD" recording preset (720x576@6000kbps) in WinPVR (Leadtek's utility).

I have 3 solutions in mind:

* Hauppauge WinTV PVR USB2
* Hauppauge WinTV PVR-150
* Plextor ConvertX TV402U

Since i want to convert most of my material to mpeg4 (i will eventually get that standalone dvd player with divx support ) i think the Plextor is the better one. Some questions:

- If i capture mpeg4 can i remove commercials ?
- Can the Plextor capture 16:9?
- I think Plextor captures divx in one-pass, does it make sense to do a dualpass afterwards?
- Would the PVR150 have the same quality as the USB2 version? I heard there are some issues with the 150.
- Does the PVR150 still use the audio crossover via soundcard?
- any differences between the M402U and TV402U (except the tuner)?

Thanks in advance!

edit: forget last question, i foudn the answer: EPG, Timeshift, Scheduler
http://www.plextor.com/english/products/ConvertXComp.htm

Another question though: if it can only capture in 4:3, how do i go about obtaining a 16:9 final video? Via 2pass re-encode and cropping?

[SHS]

- If i capture mpeg4 can i remove commercials ?
Yes

- Can the Plextor capture 16:9?
Yes but only in 4:3

- I think Plextor captures divx in one-pass, does it make sense to do a dualpass afterwards?
No

- Would the PVR150 have the same quality as the USB2 version? I heard there are some issues with the 150.
Yes same PQ but not ever one has an issues with the 150.

- Does the PVR150 still use the audio crossover via soundcard?
No in fact all three products do not use a audio pass over cable.

- any differences between the M402U and TV402U (except the tuner)?
As you said the except tuner that only real diff.

Keep in mind that the Plextor capture device for it DivX encoding is not the advanced features it only the simple profile without 1/4 pixel and global motion compensation thing like that.

[smoki]

thanks for reply, however qpel and gmc might create some problems on standalone players i heard...qpel mostly.

i think the plextor might be the better option over the PVR150 since it does divx in hardware as well as mpeg2. question is how do i convert the 16:9 embedded in 4:3 into proper final 16:9? that's why i asked if it makes sense to reencode the 4:3 divx into 16:9 2pass after cropping or so...

[reboot]

Can the Plextor capture 16:9?
Yes but only in 4:3

ROFL

[smoki]

oh well
got the Plextor after all...first impresions:

* bundled software is almost on the level of sucking, but it still has hope
* Gocap is a bit better
* Works perfectly with Gb-pvr ! (which is free)
* Sometimes during the preview (windvr or gocap) it stutters like hell, but the recorded file is perfect
* 16:9 material is recorded in 4:3 i guess i need to change the TV or Bsplayer's aspect ratio by hand to widescreen
* It is a definately faster solution than mpeg2 capture -> divx
* Quality wise is good, absolutely no audio/video sync probs after 1hr capture test.

It's late and i'm tired...will test it more tomorrow.

[smoki]

more (good)impressions:

* works perfectly with VirtualDub 1.6.7 (experimental)
* 0 dropped frames @ all resolutions/bitrates in mpeg4/divx
* 352x288 @ 2mbps is veeeeery interesting

[junkmalle]

I read that the Plextor 402 deinterlaces all the time. From what I've seen it defaults to a blend deinterlace when recording MPEG4. Very bad.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1235097#1235097

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/159536

[smoki]

I read that the Plextor 402 deinterlaces all the time. From what I've seen it defaults to a blend deinterlace when recording MPEG4. Very bad.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1235097#1235097

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/159536

yes, with Dirk's temp.workaround it's possbile to choose the deinterlace method for mpeg2 until a new driver version appears. It's actually better to capture mpeg2@8000kbps then divx/xvid it in 2pass Don't forget it's also a hardware mpeg2 encoder as well

I say give it a few driver revisions more and it will be very attractive. VirtualDub and Gb-pvr do a great job. Plus Virtualdub can edit the captured mpeg4 without re-encoding (way faster than Windvr Creator).

[junkmalle]

yes, with Dirk's temp.workaround it's possbile to choose the deinterlace method for mpeg2 until a new driver version appears... I say give it a few driver revisions more and it will be very attractive.

I found the old thread that I remember reading regarding (de)interlace:

http://forums.divx.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/996105602/m/269107342/p/1

Is that (deintercfg.DeInter_Always_Blending = 1) the fix you are talking about?

It's actually better to capture mpeg2@8000kbps then divx/xvid it in 2pass

Yes, I have a Hauppauge PVR-250 (hardware MPEG2) and when I want an xvid file I capture as MPEG2 at 15,000 kbps and then convert (IVTC if necessary and possible) to Xvid. I use Xvid in Quantization mode with a Q value of 2 or 3 so it only takes one pass and I don't care exactly how big the file turns out.

[smoki]

yes that's the one, but i can't find the fix-settings.xml file yet. Posted on the divx forums as well, maybe someone can shed some light.

there is also this line in another file:
//deinterlace_mode = 1 // 0: use one field, 1: deinterlace, 2: interlace coding

I still need to experiment with xvid parameters, i'm not too fit yet. Divx 5.2.1 is still better/more stable as 6.x for now...xmpeg does a great job converting 2pass without jobcontrols, cropping and resizing too. Great tool.

of course this whole deinterlace thing is for mpeg2. For mpeg4/divx there's nothing yet, but the captures (even in Home Theatre-Medium) look v.good as they are for "1pass" realtime.

[smoki]

ok update on the TV402U:
needed to record 2 shows, each 2 hours. I used gb-pvr for scheduling, one recording in divx@4mbps, the other mpeg2@6mbps.

both have audio/video out of sync

the one thing stopping me from returning the Plextor is that it actually recorded at some point without frame loss and sync probs. If it repeats, it's gone...
i mean what the hell, P4 2.8, 1GB RAM +"hardware encoder" and it still does this?

[smoki]

tried to record divx HQ+MP2 audio, the result was all in slo-motion?!!??!!!!
Uninstalled the bundled software, reinstalled it and now i can't even get Windvd creator to start up the device! Hangs...

Will uninstall everything tonight, sort out my codecs and give it another try. If it doesn't work, it's gone...going for a PVR150 or PVR USB2.

ps - since i had audio/video sync probs when using mp3, and slo-motion material when using mp2, im thinking maybe due to the fact that the Plextor doesn't convert/mux audio in hardware/realtime, my mp2/mp3 codecs are messed up. It's the only thing that makes sense and worth troubleshooting...the device worked before allright.

[junkmalle]

Smoki, Sorry to hear about your problems with the TV402U. Thanks for the report though. If you end up getting a Hauppauge PVR device let us know how it works out for you. I never have A/V sync problems with my PVR-250.

[SHS]

Just so all know the Plextor audio is not done under realtime hardware.

[smoki]

k, this is twilight zone stuff....

cleaned all my mp3 codecs, uninstalled everything related to audio codecs. Uninstalled windvd/dvr, rebooted 10 times in between...installed plextor driver, windvd/dvr, sagetv trial. for captures i fired only windvd creator till now

i can record mpeg2 dvd HQ mp2 absolutely fine now....did 1 min clips in all formats, the all divx+mp2 clips are slo-motion now!!! The mpeg2+mp2 are all fine...will do a mp3 sampling soon...

[smoki]

too much , too soon...
here's a 4mb clip of what the hell im talking about:

www.palos.org/mpeg/loss2.mpg

captured in DVD HQ + MP2 audio using Windvd creator...it's been downsized and bitrate reduced to save bandwidth, don't care about color settings, but you can clearly see what's happening. it like jumps frames or loses, i can't figure out exactly.

any ideas??

[junkmalle]

If you step through the MPEG file frame by frame (I used VirtualDubMPEG2) you can see there are duplicate frames at irregular intervals. There's at least one glitch in the audio too.

Because of the nature of the motions in your clip it's difficult to say for sure, but at least some of the duplicates appear to arise from dropped frames -- the device/software has determined that a frame was not recieved properly and duplicated the previous frame in an attempt to keep the audio in sync. So instead of frames numbers:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

it captured:

1 2 3 3 5 6 7 8

but some might simply be extra frames:

1 2 3 3 4 5 6 7 8

Any chance your hard drive is running in PIO mode (not DMA)?

[smoki]

hmm...no, all 3 drives are UDMA5/6, except the dvd writer udma2.

but come to think of it, i'll try capturing on another drive....i think i know why, will post again if it works.

edit: no it didn't help...
ANY Divx quality + mp2 audio will result in a slo-motion material. Normal MS mpeg4 works ok with mp2 and 3.
i'm not sure if any of this has to do with the dropped frames issue from above.

i only have divx6 player package installed. tried before with 5.2.1, same issues.

[smoki]

and here's another (4mb) clip of divx high quality (720x576@3000kbps) using mp2 audio. I didn't use highest (4000kbps) cos it's a waste of space right now for this purpose.
www.palos.org/mpeg/test.avi

divx6 player plays it at normal speed but no audio
bsplayer & everything else play it in slo-motion but with audio ok.

gspot reports around 6 codecs which could play mp2, how can i remove some of them? maybe they're conflicting or something?

[SHS]

loss2.mpg maybe wrong but it look to me like microvision protection in the video there green scolling bar
Yes I hear the skip and end up being out of sync
Have check your Taskmanager CPU uaage when recording are you get any high usage like jump for 20% to 70% some like that
That test.avi I hare the Auddio just fine
My you should think reinstall Windows if all else fail.

[The_Doman]

I played the test.avi using Divx 5.1 and Windows Media Player, Mediaplayer Classic and the old Mplayer2.exe.
Audio and video is ok, no problem there.

Try to play the clip with the older mplayer2 and use the properties option to see what audio/video decoder is used for the playback.
(Program Files\Windows Media Player\mplayer2.exe)

[smoki]

haha, i had the slight thought "what if it works everywhere else but on this PC?"...careful what u wish for, it might come true.

anyway, tried test.avi in old mplayer2 and it shows 4 codecs:

default directsound device
divx decoder filter
ligos mpeg audio decoder (v 3.5.0.64)
video renderer (btw, avg.framerate achieved 16.11 fps?!?)

for mp3 it uses the "old" fraunhofer mp3 codec (c)1998, that plays fine.

the mpeg2 material captured goes thru this Ligos Mpeg decoder package (audio decoder/splitter/video decoder) as well. Do you think this is the culprit? How can i localize and destroy it? I can't find it in device manager-audio codecs/video codecs (where the plextor is listed as an a/v capture device).

@shs: i have wlan and sometimes i think i get some spikes in cpu%, even mouse gets blocked for a sec or so...it only happens when the cpu is not overclocked. If i o/c it 10mhz more, it disappears. Right now im running at 2.6ghz default, no o/c. Disabled wlan, antivirus, processes when capturing before, did it all...even unplugged other usb devices except mouse.

[junkmalle]

test.avi played fine on my system. I didn't notice any dropped frames or audio problems.

You can remove audio codecs via Control Panel -> Sounds and Audio Devices -> Hardware -> Audio Codecs -> Properties.

[smoki]

just read that Intel's Indeo is now Ligos...does that mean i'll have to delete all codecs related to Indeo? Then what?
Get some k-pack lite or ace codec pack or something maybe with updated versions? It's late ppl, thanks for the replies i'll continue tomorrow.

[smoki]

ok confirmed, test.avi plays fine on another computer. mplayer2 there reports nero mpeg decoder in use, not any Ligos stuff. How can i remove this Ligos/Indeo stuff, or at least make the OS use something else to decode?

[The_Doman]

I am here also using the Ligos Mpeg Audio/Video decoder.
Version 4.0.0.81
It plays the clip (and others) without a problem.
Never had a problem with that Ligos decoder.

[junkmalle]

How can i remove this Ligos/Indeo stuff, or at least make the OS use something else to decode?

Did the suggestion I gave earlier not remove it?

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1333638#1333638

[SHS]

smoki Indeo Audio/Video codec have nothing to do with your problem.
K-Pack Lite or Ace Codec Pack or anything else have heck codec and you should never install them.

[smoki]

ok deleted all indeo codecs but i still can't play test.avi properly on this PC. Tried it on other 2 PCs it works fine. On here mplayer2 still reports Ligos Mpeg Audio decoder as "in use filter" besides Default Directsound device, Divx Decoder filter and Video Renderer.

No idea what to do next, except someone said today he wants to buy my PC and that would be a good opportunity to reinstall XP

Seriously, what to do/try next guys?

edit: found the bastard using gspot:

DSH Friendly Name Ligos MPEG Audio Decoder
DSH Driver or Wrapper C:\WINDOWS\system32\lmpgad.ax
DSH DirectShow CLSID {451AD9C2-4CEB-4C5A-BC90-463E4F3C1E0C}
DSH Format Tag 0x0050
FIL File Description Ligos MPEG Audio Decoder
FIL Company Name Ligos Corporation
FIL File Version 3.5.0.64
FIL Internal Name lmpgad.ax
FIL Legal Copyright Copyright © 2000-2001 Ligos Corporation
FIL Original Filename lmpgad.ax
FIL Product Name Ligos MPEG Audio Decoder
FIL Product Version 3.5.0.64
FIL Comments Ligos MPL Decoder
FIL Legal Trademarks LSX-MPEG is a trademark of Ligos Corp.
REG Additional Media Type 01 MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG1Packet
REG Additional Media Type 02 MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG1Payload
REG Additional Media Type 03 MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG1AudioPayload
REG Additional Media Type 04 MEDIATYPE_Stream
REG Additional Media Type 05 MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG1Audio
REG Additional Media Type 06 MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_AUDIO
REG Additional Media Type 07 MEDIATYPE_MPEG2_PES

@SHS: ok so how do you explain that all other PCs that use different decoding filters (Cyberlink, Nero) play test.avi fine, mine doesn't? Can i force XP to use a specific decoder? How does it decide to default to Ligos for mp2 audio instead of Cyberlink (i have Powerdvd) for example?

[junkmalle]

Try Directshow Filter Manager to unregister (disable) the ligos mpeg audio filter?