Anyone knowledgeable about laser disc players?

[filmshooter]

I am considering purchasing a used laser disc player and I am also keen to start a small collection of movies on laser disc, also obtained from the second hand market. Many people seem to agree that Pioneer is one of the top brands of laser disc player manufacturers. All the models recommended seem to be manufactured by Pioneer. Acually, Pioneer still manufacture brand new laser disc players as there is still a sizeable market in Japan.

However, I have discovered just recently that there is a Kenwood laser disc player in a second hand store selling for $89 in my state. How would Kenwood compare with Pioneer in terms of quality, reliability and features in a laser disc player? The two most important factors to me would be picture quality and reliablity. I have also heard that some Pioneer models are sophisticated enough to compensate for faults in worn / damaged discs and still maintain good quality picture and sound during playback of such discs. Would Kenwood players likely share these traits or would they be inferior in this respect? By the way, the Kenwood player I am considering is approximately 5 - 10 years old.

[Barnabas]

Hi,

I have owned 3 Laser Disk players, 2 Pioneer and 1 Philips. Both of the Pioneer units died, but the Philips is still going strong. I would stick with a Phillips, as they have a better history of lower repairs.

Some of the highest end units can compensate a bit for defective disks, but won't help laser rotted disks at all.

[Noahtuck]

I had a pioneer LD only player for years and years, NEVER had a problem with it. I currently own a pioneer LD/DVD combo player since & manufactured 1997, NEVER had a problem with it and i have used the heck out of it 8) The only reason i changed to my current LD player was because i wanted digital output and an s-vhs video out.

I have also heard that some Pioneer models are sophisticated enough to compensate for faults in worn / damaged discs and still maintain good quality picture and sound during playback of such discs.

True from my usage, quite a few other models i have, have started choking on disc's, burned and pressed, and throw them in any one of my pioneers and they run perfect (and not high end standalones either). funny how a 8 year old pioneer LD/DVD player will play burned dvd's, + or - yet many other brand name dvd players that are even just a couple of years old if that... Won't
It would be rare for me to buy anything but pioneer, espc. a LD player.

But, that's just my 20+ years of experiance with them (pioneer) & i have had LD players since they first hit the market as i was a big LD fan.
& you do have to consider if you bought them used how well the owners before took care of them. always a chance with used equipment no matter what the brand.

[wulf109]

I have two Pioneer LD players,still going strong. I'vd had numerous Pioneer's over 30+ years,never had a problem. Sony nothing but repairs. Kenwood was a fine maker of audio hi-fi components in that era,I owmed several Kenwood amplifiers. But the Kenwood of today is just a name some Chinese maker purchased.

[Barnabas]

Both of the Pioneer units I owned saw very little use at all. Perhaps they needed to be operated more, but with the same use patterns on my Philips, it's still running, and the trash man got the 2 Pioneer LD players.

[louthewiz]

I got the panasonic LD player with an optical out and s-video going cheap if someone would like to buy it, pm me if you are interested.

[BJ_M]

pioneer all the way - if you want it to last another 25 years or so - get a LDV8000 (you can get them used) with less than 5000 hours on it (they have a hour meter)

[Noahtuck]

pioneer all the way - if you want it to last another 25 years or so - get a LDV8000 (you can get them used) with less than 5000 hours on it (they have a hour meter)

I knew i liked you for some reason :P

[edDV]

Make sure you get a later model that supports AC-3 Dolby 5.1 digital audio.

After you get used to DVD playback quality, laserdiscs will seem noisy. Also widescreen will be letterbox only. And then there is the need to swap and turn over discs. This can get annoying especially for CAV discs.

Some Pioneer models play from either side without flipping.

[BJ_M]

The audio from LD ac3 5.1 is great though .. J. Park I still sounds better from the LD ..

[Dr_Layne]

The Pioneer CLD-D704 is probably the best "bang for the buck" player. Excellent picture and has AC3 RF output. Both side play, variable DNR for both Chromiance and Luminance. I've also located somone that can repair Pioneer LD players and he does good work, he fixed my CLD-D704 that I had been given for free from someone.

[vhelp]

I agree also, that Pioneer is the brand to get.

I have two, CLD-V2600 and CLD-D701 (flip disk ver)and both work
fine, but my V2600 seems to produce better video. At the moment,
my D701 is just putting out a lot noise lately. So, I switched
to my V2600 and everything is crystle clean (for laserdisc)

IMO and my experience (DV) so far ...

With laserdisc's, you want the maximum detail possible during the
capturing stage. I realize that there are capture cards that have
filtering as a feature. I'm not sure it would be wise to turn
them on for laserdisc captures
.
For instance.., there is the ADVC-100 and ADVC-300 devices. The
300 incorporates filterings features, and the 100 does not. But,
what the 100 provides are: greatest detail w/out any filter. With
laserdisc, the source is not as sharp for its format, so you want
to retain as much of this as posible. ( the worse thing you can
do is apply a "sharp" filter ) Anyways.

Known issues with laserdisc ...

* laser rot --- seen as binnary white spacers (or blocks)
* chroma bug -- also refered to as, cross-hatch; checkerbox;
* widescreen = letterbox -- (not anamorphic)
* auido = pcm or ac3
* All movies are Film (Telecined to 29.970 fps) = IVTC-ready

The chroma bug is something that you can't fix. Yes, you can apply
a smoother type filter or something, but that is about the extent of
it. This is embeded during the transfer to laser. At the time of transfer,
back then, it probably wasn't seen as an issue or whatever the phenomina,
as seen back then. Today, and with advances in capture devices, it is very
noticable.. though mostly in read/blue areas. (if you want to do this as
a hobby, etc, then I would capture it as it is, laserdisc.., and not try
and fix something that is not fixable)
.
Also, the better the LD unit, the less noticable of this issue..
( ie, my V2600 vs. D701 model )

I agree w/ edDV on the comment for the noise. There is a noticable
difference between DVD and Laserdisc.

For widescreen movies, you can re-create the Letterbox look, *or*, you
can actually perform an Anamorphic look, if you have a widescreen tv
set

Widescreen - There are two methods to ...

As you recall, laserdisc do not have Anamorphic widescreen presenation.
Only Letterbox. When your source is Letterbox, there two method to use
when your aim is either Letterbox or Anamorphic reproduction. At the moment
though, the methods escapes me (I have it written down somewheres) But I'm
sure those fluint in what I'm talking about can assist you right away, if
you find a need for this info, in your laserdisc widescreen projects

IMO, and based off my experience.., if you want noise-free reproduction
from laserdisc, then you want to go the DV route, such as the ADVC-100
device. But, be abreast, that DV carries a slight glitch with the 411
format. Its commonly refered to as 411-bug (or, chroma noise) But,
this can be over-come by, through the use of several 411 chroma noise
removers. They come in two flavors.. one for AVIsynth and other, for
virtualDub.
.
With vdub, and ver 1.5.10 and higher, it comes with this chroma noise
remover built-in..

* vdub: Video/Filter/Add.. chroma smoother
( ie, 420-mpeg1; 420-mpeg2; 422-mpeg2; 410-indeo; 411-ntsc-DV )

I bolded the one you want to use for vdub, if you do go the DV route.

-vhelp 3393

[filmshooter]

Thanks all for the suggestions. It is interesting that some people, on this forum and others, note that laser discs suffer from noise and flicker. The only time that I have seen a laser disc movie was Casablanca projected on a big screen at film studies at University. Obviously, seeing a projected image is not the best way to appreciate a video format as magnification of the image degrades picture quality to a certain extent regardless of format (film and video.) The video projector used was not exactly state of the art either! However - although this was a few years ago, I cannot recall seeing any noticeable noise or flicker in the image. Regardless, it would have been better to see a laser disc movie on a nice, sharp television set to get a sense of it's true potential in relation to picture quality.

I am swayed more and more in Pioneer's direction. Unfortunately, used laser disc players are few and far between where I live so choices are not great. The Kenwood machine in the shop is an LVD-K590V. Unfortunately, there is no information I can find about this model on the Internet.

[Bob W]

I have a Pioneer which was having problems so I put it in storage and bought a used RCA unit from eBay which is absolutely perfect.

[edDV]

Thanks all for the suggestions. It is interesting that some people, on this forum and others, note that laser discs suffer from noise and flicker. ...

Laserdisc is a composite NTSC or PAL signal just like a normal TV broadcst. Signal to Noise is specified as -50dB which is good but about 8dB less than a broadcast grade analog VTR or a DVD. As for flicker, this is no different than normal analog broadcast TV.

more info
http://laserdiscs.discdude.net/faq.htm
http://www.oz.net/blam/LaserDisc/FAQ/

[vhelp]

@ filmshooter

I think that the "noise" is a little dramatised in your perception.
From a beginner's point of view, noise is hardly (if at all) noticable.
Its only when you have become more pro-like, that you start to
develop a keen sense noise detection -( )-

The majority of the users here have all made their laserdisc purchases
via e-bay. I use paypal w/ a pay-as-you-go debit card that I got at
a check chashing store. They sell these cards for a one time fee of $20
bucks, and from there, you just put in monies (any amount) that you
need for internet purchases. I usually keep about $100 dollars in there,
and let it run out (almost) And, Should I need to make a purchase not
matching the account, its a simple matter of hopping down to any bank
(or the check cashing place I got it from - near by) and do a quick
deposit - it's all free. Then, I hop online, (and feel safe) and head
to e-bay, and make my pay-pal purchase. I've done money orders, but
they do tend to take longer, and if you are a greedy person for time, it
might not be easy on your patiance.

.
I do this because its the safest way to shop online, rather than having
exposed your whole financial account (credit card or other) to all to
eat at.

-vhelp 3394

[edDV]

@ filmshooter

I think that the "noise" is a little dramatised in your perception.
From a beginner's point of view, noise is hardly (if at all) noticable.
Its only when you have become more pro-like, that you start to
develop a keen sense noise detection -( )-

Noise becomes more noticable on a HDTV. Laserdisc at -50dB is still much better than VHS or SVHS which are -43dB off tape. Hi8 is -45dB and analog Betacam is around -51dB so laser holds up very well in the analog world.

[filmshooter]

Do scratches cause much grief on laser discs? I assume these would have the same effect as on a CD or vinyl record - ie skipping?

[BJ_M]

depends

[Marvingj]

I have two , 1 pioneer & 1 sony. They both are still strong even after 25 years of play. Thats when they built things!!

[filmshooter]

It takes a professional eye to detect video noise? A blind man could spot noise from a mile away!

[dynamix1]

I have a pioneer LD player with a variety of movies still running til this day. Never had a problems and been running for years. When I bought mine Pioneer was the way to go.

[filmshooter]

On other forums, I occasionally hear of talk about 'shipping screws' and screws for adjusting the laser. Apparently, damage can be done to the player if it is tested with the 'shipping screw' still in place. Do any of you laser disc player owners know anything about this?

[ntscuser]

I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that the AC-3 output from a laserdisc player is an undemodulated RF signal which is incompatible with the vast majority of recent suround decoders. You need either a high-end receiver-amp with built in RF demodulator or stand-alone RF demodulator which is now quite hard to come by.

For those living outside the USA I recommend the French-spec Pioneer as this has RGB playback of both NTSC and PAL laserdiscs via the Scart output. The CLD-909 and 919 combi players also have PCM audio output but I'm not sure if this works with laserdiscs as well as DVD.

[Marvingj]

I have made better back ups from laser than svhs just a note.

[Noahtuck]

I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that the AC-3 output from a laserdisc player is an undemodulated RF signal which is incompatible with the vast majority of recent suround decoders.

Well, i remember years ago you could have a pioneer ld player modified for this if it did not already have a digital output as i was thinking of having it done, you could even send them to pioneer and have it done for pretty cheap.
But my last (current) pioneer ld player i bought from 1997 has both standard coaxial & optical digital outputs on it.

On other forums, I occasionally hear of talk about 'shipping screws' and screws for adjusting the laser. Apparently, damage can be done to the player if it is tested with the 'shipping screw' still in place. Do any of you laser disc player owners know anything about this?

This i'm not sure of as it has been so long since i bought one new but i would imagine they would have one, and if they did i'm sure i was smart enough to check first and take it out.
Whether or not it would do damage i don't know ? in some case's i imagine it could as if you tried to open the tray it might strip some gears or hurt the drive motor ect. still being locked closed.
I remember once someone had brought back a new 5 disc cd changer to me complaining that they could not get it to open ?
I flipped it over and showed them the sticker the size of your face in big red letters with an arrow pointing at the shipping screw saying that it must be removed before use and the full page taped to the inside of the box flap stating the same thing, it was still taped to the box flap when i opened it to take out the unit, i took out the screw and it worked fine and i never heard from them since and that was 2 years ago at least

[kuroyume0161]

I have a good sized collection of CLV/CAV LDs and a now defunct player, Pioneer CLD-D503. The player seems to have a bad disc rotary motor. I am looking at current eBay 'Buy It Now' (no patience for bidding) Laserdisc players (2005.07.06) but can find absolutely no comparisons between these models - their features, manufacture dates, latest models (Pioneer has a very confusing model numbering scheme such as LV5000 is newer than the LV7400 - frustrating).

I want NTSC, CLV/CAV, side flipping (like the D503/504), AC-3 would be nice (the D504 seems to have this). I don't need a DVD/LD combo - I have enough DVD players to start my own business! My Home Theatre AV receiver unit is a Yamaha RX-V2400 (at a great price!).

There are too many variables and I can't figure out which will do the job.

Which do you recommend:

CLD-D504
CLD-V2400
CLD-V2600
CLD-V2800
CLD-S201
LD_V2200
LD-V4400

It has been a long time since I needed to consider this (since my original purchase in 1996!). Thanks for your help! Much appreciated.

[gshelley61]

The Pioneer CLD-D704 is considered to be the best non-Elite LD player for the U.S. market. Use the composite video output, as the modern digital Y/C separation filters in televisions, DVD recorders and other capturing devices are generally far superior to what was available 10 years ago. Laserdiscs are a native composite video format anyway.

If you have extra money, look for a Pioneer Elite CLD-97. That unit probably has the best picture of any U.S. market LD player. If money is no object, get a Pioneer HLD-X9 from Hong Kong or Japan. Best laserdisc player on the planet.

[kuroyume0161]

Thanks, gshelley61. There aren't any Elite series models at eBay. There is a HLD-X9 for 2000 GBP (around $3000)! Yikes. Money is an object at that cost.

Slowly I am converting most of my LD collection to DVD, but there are some LDs that will never appear in DVD format (or not for many more years). I definitely want to keep costs relatively low. Just invested in a $300 gray screen for my DLP projector (man, is 16:9 great on a 100" screen!) and another $700 for the AV Receiver (so that I have THX, DTS, up to 9.1 DS - very nice). I mainly want something that'll work but not more than $400, as my LD collection isn't paramount. Still, would be nice to be able to play them on occassion.

Any ideas where one can find CLD-D704 or CLD-97? I'll do some looking, but help is always great.

Thanks again!

[gshelley61]

They pop up on eBay regularly. Because of their reputation, they are not cheap. Expect to pay $200-250+ for a decent CLD-D704, and $500-700+ for a CLD-97 (depending on condition, etc.)