Capturing w/Sony Handycam DCR-HC32 via USB

[ShriekingMonkey]

Having trouble transferring video from my camcorder to the PC. The only supported function I can find is direct transfer to VCD, but I'd like to get AVIs or MPEGs so I can edit the files.

I've been able to capture running the camera through a VCR connected to a video capture card in the PC, but there should be some way to do the same via USB. I just can't figure it out. Can anyone give me a nudge in the right direction? What software will work?

(And yes, I know i-Link/FireWire will yield better quality results but I'm cheap and a USB connection is what I have right now. )

[base689]

> Having trouble transferring video from my camcorder to the PC. The only supported function I can find is direct transfer to VCD, but I'd like to get AVIs or MPEGs so I can edit the files.

From what is my (limited) experience, a videocamera connected to a PC via USB 2.0 port can transfer a videostream, but I am not sure if it can transfer a stream compatible with a DVD-like quantity digital information.
To make short a long story: my Sony Imagetransfer allowed me to transfer from videocamera to PC only in MPEG1 format.
After few tries, I didn't use any more USB connection to connect videocamera and also discrded ImageTransfer software.
I don't think (please, somebody more expert than me correct me, please) that with a USB 2.0 you can download an uncompressed AVI stream onto a PC, that's what firewire (IEEE1394) cards are for.
I bought an IEEE 1394 card and now I can capture from videocamera to PC (in uncompressed AVI format) using ANY software I have on my PC (Nero, Pinnacle, whatever).

> And yes, I know i-Link/FireWire will yield better quality results but I'm cheap and a USB connection is what I have right now
Yes, you are cheap, but if you go to eBay and look for "IEEE 1394 PCI", you will find cards with prices ranging from 15$ to 25$ (shipping included), comprising CD with drivers and one firewire cable.
I don't think it's a big expense. Installed your new IEEE1394 card onto your PC, then you will be able to capture DVD quality videos, using your SW's (Nero, Pinnacle, other) or even using WinDV, a freeware software that you can download here in the "Tools" section.
With any of the above SW's, you can capture onto your PC uncompressed AVI files (big indeed, about 13 GB for 1 h of DV video): from there, you move on and do your conversion in 720x576 MPEG2, DVD, whatever.
Just my 0.02€.

[thecoalman]

(And yes, I know i-Link/FireWire will yield better quality results but I'm cheap and a USB connection is what I have right now. )

The USB connection is for transferring still pictures or using the cam as a web cam. Your better off capping with a capture card than the USB by far, it's not even a close comparison. Of course the best way is via firewire.

BTW when you use firewire for DV-AVI capture your really not capturing the footage but transferring it, there's no conversion. It's an exact copy of what's on your digital tape.

[base689]

> The USB connection is for transferring still pictures or using the cam as a web cam.
The story of USB for "only" transferring video stream for a webcam, I already knew that.
Granted that:
1) USB 2.0 has a transfer capability of 480 Mbps
2) IEEE1394 has a transfer capability of 400 Mbps
theoretically, USB 2.0 has a higher transfer capability than IEEE1394.
But, in the end, IEEE1394 is capable of transferring video stream from DV videocamera onto uncompressed AVI onto PC and USB 2.0 isn't.
Can you explain why?
480 Mbps (USB 2.0) "should" be greater than 400 Mbps (IEEE1394), but...
...there is a "but"...

[ShriekingMonkey]

O.K. You've all convinced me. I'm going out to buy an IEEE1394 today. Excuse my ignorance, though... You say that the cam records in AVI format and if I use a program like WinDV it will save on my computer in AVI format? That would be perfect, if I understand this correctly.
Someone mentioned Nero doing the same thing as WinDV... How does this work? I've used Nero a fair amount; does it treat the camcorder as a "destination drive" and read directly off of it? I can't think how I could use Nero for this otherwise.

[thecoalman]

Someone mentioned Nero doing the same thing as WinDV... How does this work? I've used Nero a fair amount; does it treat the camcorder as a "destination drive" and read directly off of it? I can't think how I could use Nero for this otherwise.

Any time you transfer DV video as DV-AVI to your computer it doesn't matter what pogram you use. Some provide different options such as splitting the file into smaller sizes but besides that the footage is the same. I'm not familiar with nero but once you plug the cam in and turnm it on XP will recognize it and ask you what you want to do....it's pretty simple and straight forward. The only real optiuon you have is Type 1 or Type 2. The difference between the two is how the audio is stored, choose type 1 unless your going to be using an application that only accepts type 2 which are few and far between..

Granted that:
1) USB 2.0 has a transfer capability of 480 Mbps
2) IEEE1394 has a transfer capability of 400 Mbps
theoretically, USB 2.0 has a higher transfer capability than IEEE1394.
But, in the end, IEEE1394 is capable of transferring video stream from DV videocamera onto uncompressed AVI onto PC and USB 2.0 isn't.
Can you explain why?

It can, there's plenty of USB 2 devices that are more than capable. Thing is the cams only have USB 1, they weren't intended to transfer full DV quality. I pretty sure you can't even if you wanted to try because they don't provide that option. Even theoretically USB 1 should be able to transfer DV footage(I'm getting a little out of my realm here) but due to the way it transfers the footage it just doesn't work. From my understanding even USB2 is not as efficient as friewire in transferring video, i believe it comes down to it can't sustain the transfer rates.

BTW there is quote button above each post if you want to quote someone.

[base689]

> You've all convinced me. I'm going out to buy an IEEE1394 today.
Good news

> You say that the cam records in AVI format
Not exactly. "The cam records in AVI" is a simplification. Actually, cam records onto digital DV cassette in DV format, that is ALL the pixels (of which your cam is capable of) are recorded onto tape WITHOUT ANY COMPRESSION, WITHOUT ANY LOSS.
The lossless way to transfer DV video from DV tape onto Windows operative system is to get as output an AVI file (Audio Video Interleaved), which AVI file, being lossless (with respect to DV format onto tape), is HUGE, you will get about 13 GB for 1 h DV cassette (but it will be reduced when you convert it into MPEG2/DVD format, down to about 2.2 GB per hour).
As thecoalman said, "there's no conversion. It's an exact copy of what's on your digital tape": all you do is to "transfer" from DV format on tape onto AVI format on HD, written differently but witout any loss and without any codification (only change of "format").
Explanation: on tape, DV format is a series of frames recorded in a sequential way, piece after piece, session of recording after session of recording, simply the frames you capture (digitally) one after the other. On HD, you cannot have something such simple (a series of frames), in fact an AVI file is a (Windows) file, it's got a name, a size, a "start of file", an "end of file", whatever. The AVI file is the "mirror" on Windows HardDisk of a video in DV format on DV tape.

> if I use a program like WinDV it will save on my computer in AVI format?
Yes, this is correct.

> Someone mentioned Nero doing the same thing as WinDV
Yes, as far as "capture" is concerned, Nero and WinDV do the same thing: they both capture DV video from cam DV tape into an AVI file onto PC.
With the small difference that WinDV does only that (plus, you can load an AVI file back into cam DV tape), Nero does someting like 200 (more) activities.

> How does this work?
I do not have Nero on this PC I am writing now, but I have the PDF file.
Go to Start -> All Programs -> Nero -> Nero Vision Express 2 -> Nero Vision Express.
This brings up the Nero Vision Express 2 Main Windows. Select Capture Video to Hard Drive
This brings up the Capture Video window. In the top left of the window there will be listed your capture device (you should have connected your cam through firewire to PC at an earlier stage).
Capture device windows will say something like: Sony DV device
In the Select a capturing template it should show: DV
As DV type, just leave the suggested DV Type-1
Before you begin to capture, you need to have some video playing in the background. Click on the ">" button to begin palying the tape in the cam (or put manually your cam in play mode).
Once you are at a point where you wish to capture video, click on "O" record button to begin capturing.
Before recording, you can tell the system where (=which folder) you want your output file to be writte (don't remember, it should in "More" or somewhere you can state your options).
Instead of pressing the record button, you can click on the timer button and program a recording from a certain time to a certain time (overall 1 h if you want all the tape to be captured).
Then you can move on from there.
Or, do it with WinDV, everything is way easier, but with WinDV you can only capture and that's it.

[base689]

> Thing is the cams only have USB 1, they weren't intended to transfer full DV quality.
Thanks. Now that you wrote that, I remember I read somewhere videocameras have got USB 1 capability. This feature is a sort of "hidden" by Sony: in fact, the good chaps of Sony in the specs NEVER mention the version of USB, they ONLY talk about of USB capability.

[base689]

> Even theoretically USB 1 should be able to transfer DV footage
Let me do few calculations. Capture happens in real time, so the 13 GB of 1 h DV tape are transferred actually in 1 hour (1 GB = 1.024 x 1.024 x 1.024 Bytes).
13 GB = 13.958.643.710 Bytes
13.958.643.712 Bytes correspond to 111.669.149.696 bits (1 Byte = 8 bits)
1 h = 3600 sec
111.669.149.696 bits / 3600 sec = 31.019.208 bit/sec = 31.019.208 bits per second
To convert the above rate in Mbps (Megabit per second) I divide by 1.048.576 (1.024 x 1.024 = 1.048.576).
31.019.208 bits per second = 29.582 Mbps (29 comma 582)
29 Mbps is the stream rate of a DV video (when recorded and when transferred/streamed).
Now.
USB specs say:
USB 2: 480 Mbps
USB 1: 12 Mbps
So, we are left with: 12 Mbps < 29 Mbps
End of the story: a simple USB 1 device is NOT capable of sending in real time all the information stored onto DV tape.
Simply put: a USB 1 device CANNOT transfer DV quality.
As you said, USB connections on videocameras were NOT made for transferring the full quality of DV format.
Thanks God there is the firewire connection!!!!!

[ShriekingMonkey]

BTW there is quote button above each post if you want to quote someone.

If I can't figure out how to plug my camcorder into my computer, you can't expect me to find and use the quote button first time around.

Appreciate all the help!

[edDV]

> Even theoretically USB 1 should be able to transfer DV footage
Let me do few calculations. Capture happens in real time, so the 13 GB of 1 h DV tape are transferred actually in 1 hour (1 GB = 1.024 x 1.024 x 1.024 Bytes).
13 GB = 13.958.643.710 Bytes
13.958.643.712 Bytes correspond to 111.669.149.696 bits (1 Byte = 8 bits)
1 h = 3600 sec
111.669.149.696 bits / 3600 sec = 31.019.208 bit/sec = 31.019.208 bits per second
To convert the above rate in Mbps (Megabit per second) I divide by 1.048.576 (1.024 x 1.024 = 1.048.576).
31.019.208 bits per second = 29.582 Mbps (29 comma 582)
29 Mbps is the stream rate of a DV video (when recorded and when transferred/streamed).
Now.
USB specs say:
USB 2: 480 Mbps
USB 1: 12 Mbps
So, we are left with: 12 Mbps < 29 Mbps
End of the story: a simple USB 1 device is NOT capable of sending in real time all the information stored onto DV tape.
Simply put: a USB 1 device CANNOT transfer DV quality.
As you said, USB connections on videocameras were NOT made for transferring the full quality of DV format.
Thanks God there is the firewire connection!!!!!

Close and 98% of a cigar.

You forgot the IEEE-1394 transmission overhead that lifts the actual stream rate to ~36Mb/s. Data recorded to disk is ~28-31 Mb/s depending on audio and metadata included. Video portion is 25Mb/s.

Another comment: USB2 is CPU intensive compared to IEEE-1394.

[thecoalman]

BTW there is quote button above each post if you want to quote someone.

If I can't figure out how to plug my camcorder into my computer, you can't expect me to find and use the quote button first time around.

Appreciate all the help!

Actually that comment was for base689.... he's quoting but not using the quote feature. It's easier to understand what's been quoted using that feature.

[Chemical]

[quote="ShriekingMonkey"]O.K. You've all convinced me. I'm going out to buy an IEEE1394 today. Excuse my ignorance, though...

Hi!!
I bought the same sony minidv DCR-HC32 3 weeks ago, I m using the supplied usb cable to capture from the tape to Pc. By using the Video Capturing tool installed from the provided CD, a visible loss in image quality is obtaiend (a slower motion compared to the video displayed on tv (A/V cable) and image freezs at some points, specially when the cam moved during filming)...Also I got a 4Go file for 10 minutes movie. I tried with both NFTS and FAT32 defraged drive. Same results were obtaieed using Nerovision and Ulead VideoStudio 9 (For the last one I can't choose DV format to capture, only ABI).
I read some topics here saying that usb 2.0 still not recomanded for video capturing...I just want to know if did you try the firewire card and cable with this model and if you got better results....
I also noticed that when I play the content of the tape on PC with the sony software, the image is nice, but not anymore when I transfer and save the video to the hard disk, even with disabled features in the background.
any help or advise will be greatfull
Note: sorry for my modest English...

[edDV]

With Sony camcorders, USB2 is intended only for live web streaming and is very low quality. You need to use the IEEE-1394 port and cable to get the full quality DV transfer.

http://www.cwol.com/firewire/1394_cables.htm

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/ieee-1394_host_adapter_card.html