DVDDecrypter site down

[DereX888]

That IS bootlegging! Its illegal if the product has not been licensed for sale in that foreign country.

Geesh, what this site needs more than anything else is a great big link to dictionary.com plastered on every page.

You don't need to be mean, mean remarks is *my* specialty on this forum 8)

However with movies (on whatever format) I disagree.
If some movie is prohibited BY LAW in one country, and someone is sneaking it in from another country - that is bootlegging.
What we have here with region coded DVDs is IMO unlawful monopolistic attempt to control freedom of buying and viewing LEGAL products (in their countries) by DVD customers.
United States law does not forbid its citizen to buy movies in Europe (or Asia or anywhere else) and it does not forbid citizens from "private import" of movies, be it internet shopping or tourism. And if it does - its a matter of paying custom fees on the border, right? Correct me if Im wrong, but only each country's legislature can prevent (ban) import of specific goods (say i.e. movie released abroad but not locally). Since when this part of the law, in regard of movies, was ceded onto movie-releasing corporations?! Yet it is exactly what corporation are trying to do with their "region coding". Its not up to them to decide who can watch Sucky Movie released in UK only. All what they should be allowed to do is to release such movie in i.e. UK (if thats their wish) but they shouldn't be allowed to make it difficult to watch this Sucky Movie DVD in US, Asia or wherever. They are NOT some kind of worldwide imoprt/export controlling lawmakers, they cant dictate any citizen from any country what they can view and what they cant. Its up to the lawmakers to decide so.
IMO region coding is illegal. Im sure Im right about it, thats why Im still looking for free or inexpensive lawyer willing to take my case against Warner, Sony etc etc for making it difficult to me to view some DVD movies I bought abroad

[adam]

You can pick up a movie in one region while traveling abroad, and bring it back with you, even if that movie is not yet available for purchase in your country. You CANNOT order it online or otherwise mail order it under these circumstances and you cannot buy up a bunch of DVDs in one country and then travel to a country where its not licensed for release and sell it. If goods are not licensed for sale in a country than its illegal to sell it there...period. This is not US law, this is a universal legal concept. All countries do this to protect their economy and their citizens. If countries did not recognize and enforce this then there would be all kinds of problems. As already mentioned, it allows people to price-gouge because they can exploit the product's exclusivity. It completely bypasses the consumer laws of the country of importation. It is deceptive to the consumer (Why doesn't this movie have my native language if its being sold in my country? Why is it in PAL when my player only supports NTSC?), it imposes undue and unforeseable burdens on the manufacturer (Why am I spending money to exchange a defective DVD in Timbuktu, the whole reason I don't release my movie there is because shipping is cost prohibitive) and most importantly it costs that country money. Let's say Region 1 gets a movie 12 months before any other country and that it is widely bootlegged (there is no other word for it) around the world. The fair market value for the goods goes to the Region 1 distributors and retailers if there are any, and the unlawful markup goes to the bootlegger. This is money that otherwise would have gone to the distributors and retailers of the country of importation. When the movie is finally licensed for sale there, they have now lost out on all of these potential purchases. If this is widespread enough, there will no longer be enough demand to issue a legitimate release in that country. Now those citizens are forced to buy a copy that is 1) illegally sold and 2) not catered to their needs (ie: languages, subs, accurate ratings by their respecitive board, promotional offers, artistic concerns such as title of movie or content of extras or artwork etc...)

Good luck on that lawsuit DereX888 but I don't think the cost of legal services is what's holding you back.

[adam]

According to the news at doom9.net, it was indeed Macrovision that shutdown DVDDec. I can never really make out Doom9's shorthand style of typing, but it seems he has some email from Macrovision confirming this and I believe him.

[thevoelk]

Adam,

Isn't here something in the World Trade Organization rules/laws/procedures (whatever the word) about prohibiting Fair Trade? I.E., they are effectively blocking the idea of free trade using Region Coding? I do realize that the regions are localized (never quite understand why Japan is R2), so it doesn't make much sense to order a movie from the US to Europe. Also, I buy import CDs all the time, from record labels that have no identity in the US, how is this licensed?

[Nilfennasion]

Not getting product tailored to your country because you imported? What planet are you from? Oh, wait...

Seriously, have you ever looked at some of the titles available in Australia? Some of them contain as many as twenty subtitle tracks that nobody in the entire country will ever have a use for. I cannot remember what the record-holder is for subtitles, but one of the Friday The 13th sequels has over two dozen subtitle tracks, total. Try navigating those on the fly.

To put it a Tyler Durden way, people in places like Australia import DVDs from America so they get less crap that they do not need.

[DereX888]

Good luck on that lawsuit DereX888 but I don't think the cost of legal services is what's holding you back.

Watch me
I make good money, but I don't have millions (yet ) that would be needed. And Im not living in USA which makes it harder (for now).

I have cut most part of your response as it is off the subject, as I wasnt talking about any reselling, 'bootlegging' (in the way you describe it) nor piracy.
As I said - if i.e. all t-shirt companies would have same policy about 'region coding' stating that "anyone can buy our t-shirts anywhere, but most of them they can wear them only in the exact place of purchase, i.e. it is prohibited to wear "I love Tokyo" t-shirt in NYC or Europe, or "I love NYC" t-shirt to wear in Japan or Europe - and so on..." it wouldn't have last a second.
They were able to do so only because 1) the product was not on the market, and 2) public was not aware yet of the region coding's impact on their freedom since the product was not yet available back then.

So tell me again I have no case on this example:
I brought few French and German movies on DVDs from last trip to Europe. My DVD player have no problems to play NTSC/PAL, I also have multisystem TV etc etc - the only problem preventing me from viewing these discs (that I have legally bought and legally brought them to USA) is the region coding. You have agreed with me previously that I can legally buy and bring any DVDs from abroad. So I have not broke any laws purchasing these discs, I have not broke any laws bringing them onto american soil, none of the movies is prohibited in USA, yet the releasing company (or whatever other company) is trying to limit my freedom in using those legally bought products.
Please explain to me on what legal grounds they have the right to decide what I can and what I can't view? Mind you - they are not even related to legislators or government in USA, so what gives them any right to decide whats legal whats not?

[jimmalenko]

Just to add to my countryman's comments ^^ (Nilfennasion), there's also the issue of a DVD being released in the U.S. sometimes up to 12 months before it is released in other parts of the world. Clearly the Amazon/import option is tempting in this case. It enhances the call for DVDs to have the same release date worldwide, which would certainly aid in enforcing these laws of which adam speaks, and would IMO more than likely reduce piracy of said DVDs, both from an import and from a downloading point of view.

[Nilfennasion]

You can often tell a DVD or film will be crap if it comes out in one territory a year after another. In the latter case, The Cat In The Hat was released in Australian theatres about 13 months after it had finished its run in America. Need I say more?

In cases where the DVD release of a film has taken place in Australia months or years after the USA, they are almost universally missing something. In the case of Basic Instinct, for example, the Blonde Poison featurette was nowhere to be found. The DTS soundtrack that is available in Europe is absent, too. The latter, I can live without since the film was originally presented in Dolby Stereo anyway. The former, however, is a classic example of politically correct idiots making total arses of themselves without even realising it, and a must-have for every fan of the film or its director. And they want to tell me I can't have it because of where I live?

[DereX888]

Just to add to my countryman's comments ^^ (Nilfennasion), there's also the issue of a DVD being released in the U.S. sometimes up to 12 months before it is released in other parts of the world. Clearly the Amazon/import option is tempting in this case. It enhances the call for DVDs to have the same release date worldwide, which would certainly aid in enforcing these laws of which adam speaks, and would IMO more than likely reduce piracy of said DVDs, both from an import and from a downloading point of view.

Im sorry, but since when the public (us, customers) is obliged to care about the profits of any corporations?
Its not my (nor yours) problem that the studios can't release same movie worldwide, or don't want to, or whatever the reason is. I don't give a s**t will the studio loose some profit because they premiered some movie in USA years in advance than in the rest of the world. IT IS NOT OUR PROBLEM.
But when studios suddenly become some shadowy lawmakers prohibiting part of our freedom in order to prevent their potential profit loss - that IT IS OUR PROBLEM. Where the hell is the Govt. that supposed to prevent such things from happening?

[Nilfennasion]

The problem as most DVD enthusiasts outside the US see it is that while the world is moving toward a global marketplace where anyone can buy anything from any part of the world that sees fit to sell to them, the DVD distributors want to impose artificial limits on what can be sold where. It is too late for that. Hardcore enthusiasts will not accept crap. One distributor here learned that the hard way when they tried to sell a Pan and Scan version of Scream. In the 2000-2001 period, the gap in quality between US and Australian/European releases of major studio DVDs was closing. But in the last two years, it has been blowing wide open again. Artificial limits to what a consumer can play back will not stop them from importing. Releasing a local product that is as good as or better than the import (rare in Australia) will. Simple as that.

[adam]

thevoelk: First off there is no such thing as Free Trade among countries. If it exists between country A and B its through a treaty somewhere. Under any free trade agreement, you are only free to trade with another country if the product you are trading is legal there. That is why its not legal to import certain drugs to America from Amsterdam just because they are legal there.

As for your importation of CDs, I imagine their respective studios have indeed licensed the reseller to sell to America. They don't have to have any ties to the US to do that.

Nilfennasion you know full well what I am talking about. We've all heard your rants about how badly Australian DVDs are generally. My post was clearly not talking about the quality of the production but rather the content. A DVD without your native audio or subs on it is not catered to your country. If you wait until the DVD is released in your region it will contain these things. An uninformed buyer could easily get ripped off and then guess what they are going to do? Complain to the distributor/manufacturer who is going to tell them that they can't help them because it was an unlawful sale.

If you are unhappy with the Australian release THEN you can import it from somewhere else. You are only prohibited from importing BEFORE it has been released in your country.

As for a DVD containing all those extra sub tracks, I assume they were for other countries in Region 4 like Mexico, the Caribbean and South America but even if not, so what? As long as you got your native language and subs then it is catered for your country, something which you may not get if you import.

DereX888: Here is the reason that the motion picture industry can include region coding notwithstanding the fact that it can still affect some people who lawfully imported....life is not black and white so neither can the law be. Its just like how we have copy protection on computer software and audio cds even though we have the right to make lawful backups, or why a manufacturer can sell products with a license agreement only enforceable in 49 of the 50 states. You have a right to protect your product from being illegally copied or sold or exploited and if your protection measures incidentally affect lawful users, they just have to live with it so long as it doesn't render your product unmerchantable (not fit for its intended purpose.) If you want to play a DVD from another region you have to either change your player's region setting or buy a player from that region. Inconvenience...yes. Unlawful...no.

[thevoelk]

Thanks for clearing that up Adam. I thought I remembered something liek that in my International Economics class that I mostly slept through in college. I think something like regio coding was brought up in a tangent discussion about cases like Japenese Snow.

[DereX888]

...
If you are unhappy with the Australian release THEN you can import it from somewhere else. You are only prohibited from importing BEFORE it has been released in your country.

Adam, you contradict yourself here!
It doesn't matter will he import same movie from another country before or after it has been released in his country, because it is still region coded, therefore he can't play it in his country, no matter is it before it has been released in his country or is it 10 years after it was released. Region coding is still there and won' go away.
Either he has to fiddle with his dvd player (may void warranty) or make a 'de-protected' backup copy of the dvd with *illegal* software such as DVDDecrypter in order to view it on his player!

DereX888: Here is the reason that the motion picture industry can include region coding notwithstanding the fact that it can still affect some people who lawfully imported....life is not black and white so neither can the law be. Its just like how we have copy protection on computer software and audio cds even though we have the right to make lawful backups, or why a manufacturer can sell products with a license agreement only enforceable in 49 of the 50 states. You have a right to protect your product from being illegally copied or sold or exploited and if your protection measures incidentally affect lawful users, they just have to live with it so long as it doesn't render your product unmerchantable (not fit for its intended purpose.)

Again: if Im LEGALLY buying a movie in any other country than my home region code, why do you still insist on on talking about "illegally copied or sold or exploited"? I ask you to explain on the example where I go on a trip to Europe, i LEGALLY BUY an original and LEGALLY released there dvd version of movie (lets sday its the same movie as its US version), i LEGALLY bring it back to USA, and then I CANNOT LEGALLY WATCH IT BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN REGION CODED and my player can't play it.
I have not done anything illegal as you try to say companies are trying protect themself from, all my steps were LEGAL, yet the releasing company is preventing me from watching legally obtained dvd.
The region coding "protection measure" in this case is actually the reason for me to use illegal software like DVDDecrypter in order to use my legally acquired legal product!

[adam]

DereX888 did you even read my response to you? You clearly don't want to understand you just want to rant. You don't need me for that.

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

I heard once that region code on DVDs was created in part to ensure profit in theaters; how?, because in many countries, specially in third world ones, 90% of the movies arrive to the theaters three or more months after the release of the DVD in region 1 countries (USA).
In this way, in example, I remember this particular case because it happened to me, when Godzilla arrived to the theaters in Ecuador, I already had the original region 1 Dvd since three months ago, and so did most of the people here (most of them in pirated copies of course). So, when they "premiered" the movie here, the money they made wasn't much because everybody already watched the movie long ago. Only big BIG movie names are premiered within weeks of its actual premiere in the states, and so far just the matrix 2 & 3 and Episode 1,2 & 3 has been premiered two days after its release in the states.; for the rest, you have to wait at least a month.

[DereX888]

DereX888 did you even read my response to you? You clearly don't want to understand you just want to rant. You don't need me for that.

c'mon, adam...
How on earth it comes to use "illegal" software in order to watch a movie, if all i did is to buy legal dvd, legally import it, yet i can't legally watch it?
And its not even a government forbiding me to watch it, its some private-own corporation who decided dvd from one continent shouldnt be watched on another continent...
It doesn't add up!

[lumis]

i was over at a friends house yesterday, and he had dvd decrypter 3.5.2.0, and i started it up and it told me my version was out of date.. i found that a bit odd since the site is supposedly down.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

how much longer can we beat this dead horse?
DVD Decrypter is dead.
it's bad. it's horrible. it really & truly sucks.
there's not a damned thing any of us can do about it.
let's move on with our lives.

[Shocker Milwaukee]

DVD Decrypter is dead.
there's not a damned thing any of us can do about it.

Macrovision's corporate headquarters is in California.
Untouchable?
Please.

http://www.macrovision.com/company/directions/index.shtml

[Shocker Milwaukee]

8)

[Xylob the Destroyer]

Fine.
But you're driving.
You can pick me up on your way -- I'm in Denver.

[mbellot]

According to the news at doom9.net, it was indeed Macrovision that shutdown DVDDec. I can never really make out Doom9's shorthand style of typing, but it seems he has some email from Macrovision confirming this and I believe him.

I'm not sure why you find this cryptic...

Finally, since I was "blessed" by an official information email that the company that shut down DVD Decrypter development demanded be sent, I can let the cat out of the bag: it's not the MPAA, it's not Sony as initially rumored. It's Macrovision - the company that has given the world video signal corruption since the 1980's.

It would seem to me he received the fabled email from LUK to take down DVDDecrypter.

Emphasis mine for clarity.

[adam]

Well we are getting into semantics but it reads very strange to me, just like most of his news posts. He said that Macrovision (the company that shut down DVD Decryptor) demanded the email (the email he has been blessed with) be sent. So Macrovision demanded that LightningUK send them an e-mail? That's what it says but I don't think that's what he means. I assumed he meant that he has read the email that Macrovision sent to LightningUK, and it was in that email that they demanded the site be shutdown. His modifiers are all mixed up. Hey what can I say, I was an English major?

[Noahtuck]

If you are unhappy with the Australian release THEN you can import it from somewhere else. You are only prohibited from importing BEFORE it has been released in your country.

Okay, i have to ask about this one part....
Are you saying just for Nilfennasion country or anywhere ??

I have alot of dvd's that i have bought and had sent to me from all over the world a month and longer before they were released here, and have alot of dvd's from a few years ago that have still not been released here & prob. never will be. and yes they are legal dvd's, not silvers.

Sorry if i'm missing something here but....

[adam]

I'm saying for any country. After your region's release has come out you can import another region's. Until that happens you are supposed to wait.

As for the DVDs you imported, it is possible that they shouldn't have been and it is also possible that the studio licensed that reseller to sell to your country, or to all countries for that matter. There may be some movies where the studio has no intention of ever releasing the movie in country X, but they have no problem with people importing it there.

[DereX888]

I'm saying for any country. After your region's release has come out you can import another region's. Until that happens you are supposed to wait.

adam, as I pointed out earlier - you contradict yourself.
Region coding won't disappear from 'foreign' DVDs once equivalent title has been released locally (thus it became more 'legal' to import them - and I repeat again that no law in any country says that its citizens are prohibited from buying DVDs in other countries - its just the 'law' set up by corporations, not by governments).
You still won't be able to view other region's DVD on your player!

[adam]

I tried to gracefully ignore you since I already answered your question at least once before. But yet again, region coding does indeed affect even lawfully imported DVDs. In this instance the user suffers the inconvenience of either having to have their player modified, which does not void the warranty if properly done, or to import a compatible player as well, or to buy a second player and permanantly modify it for that region. Just because a protection mechanism affects those who are acting lawfully that doesn't mean the company has to abandon it altogether.

I am not contradicting myself. The legalities DO turn on whether the movie has been licensed in your region or not. The fact that the region coding will still be present regardless does not change this.

And I strongly suggest you do a bit more research before you discuss anymore legalities because your contention that this is all propogated by corporations is just ridiculous.

Now if you still don't get this then tell it to a different lawyer because I don't want to hear it.

[DereX888]

I tried to gracefully ignore you since I already answered your question at least once before. But yet again, region coding does indeed affect even lawfully imported DVDs. In this instance the user suffers the inconvenience of either having to have their player modified, which does not void the warranty if properly done, or to import a compatible player as well, or to buy a second player and permanantly modify it for that region. Just because a protection mechanism affects those who are acting lawfully that doesn't mean the company has to abandon it altogether.

I am not contradicting myself. The legalities DO turn on whether the movie has been licensed in your region or not. The fact that the region coding will still be present regardless does not change this.

And I strongly suggest you do a bit more research before you discuss anymore legalities because your contention that this is all propogated by corporations is just ridiculous.

Now if you still don't get this then tell it to a different lawyer because I don't want to hear it.

Look, I DO GET this. I DO know how to disobey stupid 'laws' and restrictions such as region coding. I DO understand the possibility of profit loss by dvd releasers in different countries if the movie X is released in one country but not in another one (again - their shortcoming like inability to release same movie simultanously in all countries IS NONE of our concern, and if they can't do it - IT IS their loss; such "prevention" of potential loss, should have never become a consumer's burden, and as I explained in t-shirts example - it is downright ridiculus. After all why public must protect profits of dvd-releasing companies, but not i.e. book writers or musicians? Just because the technology wasn't able to do so when CDDA was established as a standard?).

Don't be upset, Im trying to to hear from you (the lawyer) how and when corporation(s) were allowed to make the laws instead of governments, specially the laws restricting citizens from freedom of purchase and use legally sold products such as movie on DVD, because I never heard of any legislature in any country voting for it (region coding), nor against it - it was just superimposed on everyone by the international corporations. Or wasn't it?
The entire DVD consortium sounds and acts like one international cartel to me, region coding is but one example of it.
Cartels are illegal (or at least they were some 100 years ago) in USA, right?

[adam]

Just do a google search on parallel imports, that will get you started. They are prohibited by the NATIONAL goverments of most countries. Many countries additionally have specific local laws governming parallel imports.

I don't know what this cartel stuff is you are pushing. Copyright and Trademark law is national law. Corporations aren't cartels just because they enforce their intellectual property rights.

[guns1inger]

Let me put another spin on it. Technically, in Australia (so these are local laws), it is illegal to import DVDs that have not been reviewed and passed by the Office of Film and Literature Classification. The OFLC applies a rating, and it is illegal to import or distribute items that do not have a classification. Certain films available overseas will never recieve a rating because they contravene the guidelines for even an X rating. The classification applies to the entire content of the disk, including all extra features. Therefore, even if a film has been classified and released out here, it is technically illegal to import a copy from, say, the US, which has extra features that have not been through the board. It is not unheard of for customs to confiscate unrated materials being imported from the US and asia.

This is irregardless of any laws regarding regions and releases.