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I thought "rights" can not be granted anyway (in the USA) , only removed, suppressed or modified ...
(off topic and why I don't weigh in here - adam knows his shit on this score folks)
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"Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650)
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Fair use is solely about making backups or copies of copyrighted material without express permission from the original author.
If by four prong test you mean the factors to be considered when determining fair use, that only comes about when you need to defend your fair use rights.
for those who don't know these factors are:
1) Purpose of Fair Use
2) Nature of Copyright
3) The amount of the copyrighted work used or backed up under fair use
4) Effect on market Value by fair use
Backing up media is covered under all of these since the purpose is to provide a backup, timeshift, media shift, whatever. The nature of the copyright is nil at that point. The amount copied is either in whole or in part and would clearly fall under "No more was taken then necessary" ruling. Lastly, the effect on market value is nil since you wouldn't be purchasing a second copy anyways and in most cases you couldn't purchase a second copy minus all the extra material and menus which quite alot of people find annoying and usually skip when making a backup of their movie media. -
That is completely incorrect. Fair Use encompases a number of uses (criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research) but it has absolutely nothing to do with personal archival copying because, once again, the issue has never even once been raised in a court of law. There is also really no such thing as a Fair Use right. Fair Use is an affirmative defense. Here's how Fair Use works. They claim infringement, unless you can show you meet the requirements of the 4 prong Fair Use test, you lose.
You also have to question why the legislature would pass section 117 granting the right to backup software or section 1008 granting the right to backup audio recordings if we already had those rights under Fair Use. The answer is that Fair Use has nothing to do with personal copying. -
When did they agree about CD-R media in the US? I remember about audio tapes and video tapes, but I was under the impression from my classes, both undergrad nad masters, that a deal for digital media was never struck.
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There isn't a deal for digital media generally but there is one for digital audio recording devices (Dat recorders, MP3 creators etc..) and digital audio recording media which are those special music cdrs that "digital audio recording devices" are supposed to require.
Look at 17 USCS 1008. It expressly grants the users of these devices the right to make digital audio recordings of their personal media. Despite what most people think, using a computer to copy a cd to a regular CDR is still an infringement. You are only supposed to use those specific devices which pay royalties to the industry and consequently make the use of music cdrs mandatory.
Take a look at the Audio Home Recording Act. This was the legislation that implemented all of these changes. -
I just did a review of info about archival rights. I found the following:
1 copy of software can be made, but only used if the original is unusable
Copies of CDs can be made because of the industry agreement of the copy fee. I did not see anything suggesting particular types of devices being used to do the copying, but I would like to see where the particular list is available. I also thought that part of the sale of blank CDs was being taken by the industry, but again I saw no reverence as to how the music industry got their "fair share" of the CD copying.
No other archiving was allowed except for libraries, and those doing archiving of materials (i.e. companies that do archiving of old motion pictures).
The law is to be reviewed every 3 years by a committee, but the last review was in 2003. They indicated that since CDs are less prone to damage that other media, that no new changes were needed. They did not reference DVDs (I presume because the problem was not as large for DVD copying at that point in time).Some days it seems as if all I'm doing is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic -
that sounds more like info from canada - where we pay (for many years now) a fee on blank media for the right to copy.. and the last review was also in 2003 ...
you sure that info is not from canada ?"Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650) -
Agreed.Originally Posted by BJ_M
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I read about 20 articles and a large portion of the law cited above. I also saw a digital rights site, which was talking about a review in 2003, and how to write to your congressman. I do not think that Canada's lawmakers are called congressmen (or congressperson for the Political Correct crowd).
Some days it seems as if all I'm doing is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic -
no - we usually call them idiots ....
non the less - is there a copy fee in the USA?
who is collecting it and where does the money go and how much is it ?"Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650) -
I also read a discussion about copyrights. We in the US have free copyrights, except those removed by the copyright law and other laws. Once the copyright has expired on a document or other copyrighted "thing", then you may copy it at will.
Some days it seems as if all I'm doing is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic -
Yes that does not sound like US law normcar. Actually it kinds just sounds like a slight misinterpretation. Here are the applicable sections, all under Title 17.
For computers:
For audio recordings:§ 117. Limitation on exclusive rights: computer programs
(a) Making of additional copy or adaptation by owner of copy. Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106 [17 USCS § 106], it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided:
(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine and that it is used in no other manner, or
(2) that such new copy or adaptation is for archival purposes only and that all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful.
(b) Lease, sale, or other transfer of additional copy or adaptation. Any exact copies prepared in accordance with the provisions of this section may be leased, sold, or otherwise transferred, along with the copy from which such copies were prepared, only as part of the lease, sale, or other transfer of all rights in the program. Adaptations so prepared may be transferred only with the authorization of the copyright owner.
(c) Machine maintenance or repair. Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106 [17 USCS § 106], it is not an infringement for the owner or lessee of a machine to make or authorize the making of a copy of a computer program if such copy is made solely by virtue of the activation of a machine that lawfully contains an authorized copy of the computer program, for purposes only of maintenance or repair of that machine, if--
(1) such new copy is used in no other manner and is destroyed immediately after the maintenance or repair is completed; and
(2) with respect to any computer program or part thereof that is not necessary for that machine to be activated, such program or part thereof is not accessed or used other than to make such new copy by virtue of the activation of the machine.
and then under definitions it defines digital audio recording devices as:§ 1008. Prohibition on certain infringement actions
No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings.
It was ruled in the A&M Records, Inc. v Napster, Inc case that computers are not digital audio recording devices since they are not marketed as such. So using a computer to copy a music cd to a cdr is not permitted.A "digital audio recording device" is any machine or device of a type commonly distributed to individuals for use by individuals, whether or not included with or as part of some other machine or device, the digital recording function of which is designed or marketed for the primary purpose of, and that is capable of, making a digital audio copied recording for private use
As for royalties:
Section 1003. Obligation to make royalty payments
(a) Prohibition on importation and manufacture
No person shall import into and distribute, or manufacture and distribute, any digital audio recording
device or digital audio recording medium unless such person records the notice specified by this section
and subsequently deposits the statements of account and applicable royalty payments for such device or
medium specified in section 1004.(a) Digital audio recording devices
(1) Amount of payment.
The royalty payment due under section 1003 for each digital audio recording device imported into and
distributed in the United States, or manufactured and distributed in the United States, shall be 2 percent
of the transfer price. Only the first person to manufacture and distribute or import and distribute such
device shall be required to pay the royalty with respect to such device. -
Sorry, I guess it was a one-time review
(a) In General. - Not later than November 1, 2003, the Register of Copyrights and the Commissioner of Patents and Trademarks shall submit to the Committees on the Judiciary of the Senate and the House of Representatives a joint report evaluating the effect of the amendments made by this title.Some days it seems as if all I'm doing is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic -
Originally Posted by normcarLike most I suspect, I've been reading through this serious thread over the past couple of days. Thanks BJ_M for this comment ... it gave me a needed chuckle.Originally Posted by BJ_M
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Only for music recordings. The amount is 2% of the transfer price of the device, in other words how much they sell it for. Other than that the procedures for qualifying for, paying, collecting, and distributing the royalty payments are rather in-depth. Rather than post it here, its best to just read the changes that the Audio Home Recording Act made.Originally Posted by BJ_M
http://www.virtualrecordings.com/ahra.htm -
In the US, for legal purposes, they are not called idiots, that is what they become after receiving money from companies or special interest groups. They lose what little 'common sense' they originally had when the MPAA, RIAA and other special interest groups pay big $$ to screw the people who elected them.
Some days it seems as if all I'm doing is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic -
Adam,
I'm nitpicking here:
Now that Windows Media Center Edition is available for sale, and Home Theatre PCs are a realtiy, how does this weigh into the statement in your post "computers are not digital audio recording devices since they are not marketed as such. So using a computer to copy a music cd to a cdr is not permitted. "? I'm curious how these factor in, as I've yet to see one that does not include a DVD-RW and a large hard drive. -
adam -
No person shall import, manufacture, or distribute any digital audio recording device or digital audio
interface device that does not conform to--
(1) the Serial Copy Management System;
(2) a system that has the same functional characteristics as the Serial Copy Management System and requires that copyright and generation status information be accurately sent, received, and acted upon
between devices using the system's method of serial copying regulation and devices using the Serial Copy Management System; or
(3) any other system certified by the Secretary of Commerce as prohibiting unauthorized serial copying.
(b) Development of verification procedure
this does not seem to be happening completely - as per the letter of the law above .."Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650) -
thevoelk there are many legal uses for computers, recordable drives, and recordable media (copy computer software, burn your own data, etc.. ) so therefore the manufacturers of these devices are not committing contributory copyright infringement even when their consumers use their devices to commit direct infringements. No you are not allowed to make audio recordings with these devices per the Napster ruling. But realize that you can still convert an audio recording to an mp3 under this legislation as the software will qualify as an audio recording device and will have to pay royalties as such.
It makes sense when you think about it. Why should pc makers pay royalties for the right for consumers to make audio recordings? Is not like with a Dat recorder where people buy the device specifically for that purpose.
BJ_M I'm not familiar with what goes on behind the scenes with these devices. If they fail to pay their royalties or adhere to the copy control plans they forfeit their immunity from liability for contributory copyright infringement and additionally subject themselves to various penalties. -
well I can say that: for sure - for most studio equipment and DAWs , they do not contain these " Serial Copy Management System" mentioned in the law above ...
"Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650) -
Studio equipment would not fall under this act. Digital audio recording devices are limited to devices marketed and sold for personal use. In other words, the device would have to be considered a consumer good. Studio equipment is just that; equipment. Its a different classification of goods.
There are always manufactuers who ignore or try to circumvent federal regulations. There are plenty of cases where such manufacturers have been sued for failing to pay their royalties or implement the proper control plans. -
yes -- but with home studios everywhere, using very high equipment -- which has fallen big time in price..
I could see this being a issue -- even where to "draw a line" -- specially in the case of digital audio workstations of all types - or even the new AVID live event controller (which doesnt look like a computer but runs on XP) , or the digital recorders from mackie and others ..
I guess it will require a court case -- problem being is that the 'little guy' can never afford the legal fees guilty or not and as such..... nothing gets resolved except that the "big guys" use this advantage .."Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650) -
DAT player/recorders also do not have this serial management rights (most - do not, some did) and I know they did and still do cause a bit of an issue legally.
"Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems." - Rene Descartes (1596-1650) -
This thread was only started 5 days ago, it already have over 200 posts and over 20,000 views.
I wonder what the record is. -
Originally Posted by waheed
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um, is the mrbass.org site vanished too? when you go to it, all you get is this little message:
Moment of silence for...
a moment of truth...
so one can live for the moment
moment of silence = silent prayer time, contemplation, reflection, or meditation
moment of truth = a time when a person or thing is tested, a decision has to be made, or a crisis has to be faced
live for the moment = live or act without worrying about the future
flickerx -
Maybe he's in mourning because of Decrypter.
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Adam - It would seem to me (IANAL) that logically the ruling that a computer is not a digital audio recording device.Originally Posted by adam
However, once you install a CDR drive it becomes one based on the section:
Since one of the primary design purposes of a CDR drive is the ability to create audio CDs.whether or not included with or as part of some other machine or device, the digital recording function of which is designed or marketed for the primary purpose of, and that is capable of, making a digital audio copied recording for private use -
Well all I can say is, this really sucks for Decrypter and the author that created it. Im glad I was able to get the last release when I did in the light of this going on. I think it really sucks that we pay a fortune for these DVD's to waste time watching commercials and other junk we're forced to watch before we can actually watch the movie. People make their backups so that they dont have to deal with those annoying commercials and such, and the case that if something happened to the original to where it's no longer playable or damaged in some way, we have to shell out ANOTHER 20 bucks to just replace it.
I just don't like the fact that legally we cannot make any kind of backup with our purchased DVD's....I am not going to keep paying 20 bucks for a DVD each time the original goes kaput.....and some of the DVD's may not be available for sale down the line, what are we supposed to do then?
Im glad that I dont buy DVD's very often, because theres not much out there that interests me anyway.
But as it has been mentioned before, when there's a will there's a way, because no matter how many 'so called' new protections these greedy companies tries to implement, there will always be someone to defeat it, one way or the other.
Think of it as the Phoenix rising from the ashes after its apparent defeat
VTMI have the staff of power, now it's up to me to use it to its full potential to command my life and be successful. -
You cannot have multiple primary purposes. The primary purpose is the device's main function and it has to be marketed as such. The legislation is intended to cover devices that record music and nothing else. Dat recorders do not record data generally, they can only record data in the form of a musical recording. Compare this with a cdr recordable. Its function is to record data, any data. Audio recording is one of its functions, but it is not its primary function. I've never seen a cdr drive marketed as a music recorder. They are marketed as data recorders.Originally Posted by mbellot
I think its safe to say that any pc on the market is going to have a cdr in it now, and so we can assume that all pcs are capable of making digital audio recordings. But clearly a pc is so multifunctional that it cannot be said that their primary purpose is to make audio recordings.
Anyway like it or not that is the current law. You can read the court's analysis here to find out how they came to their conclusion that computers are not covered under this act.
http://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/web/newopinions.nsf/0/c4f204f69c2538f6882569f100616b06?OpenDocument
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