Apple Ditches IBM For Intel

[BJ_M]

Confirmed = from the apple speech/press talk today:


10:25 am Apple is going to Intel chips officially. "We've been through many transistions. 680x0 to PowerPC, Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X. Today we begin a third transition. It's true; We are switching to Intel."

10:27 am Why are we switching to Intel? Intel offers great performance. Intel offers great power consumption. The transition will take a few years, but it will be worth it. We want to be making the best computer for the customer going forward.

10:29 am June 2006 Macs will ship with Intel processors. By 2007, the transition will almost be complete.

10:31 am We face two challenges. The first, is Mac OS X on Intel. We've been maintaining Mac OS X on Intel AND PPC, secretly, for the past 5 years, just in case.
10:32 am This entire last half hour the keynote has been running on an Intel box running Mac OS X.

10:34 am Development machines will be in the hands of developers soon. Video playing explaining how to compile for Intel. Widgets, Scripts, Java, all already work...Cocoa programs need but a small tweak. Carbon programs will take a couple of weeks.

10:36 am We're releasing XCode 2.1. It can compile a Universal Binary (FAT binary). Available to everybody at registration desk following the keynote. Developers applauded Steve when he said that both processors would be supported for a long time to come.

10:38 am Mathematica 5 for Mac OS X was ported to Intel last week...in just two hours. Working version in 20 hours. A couple dozen lines of code had to be changed.

10:46 am While most software is just a recompile away, some will remain PPC-only. For that, there's Rosetta. Binary instruction translation, in real time. Runs PowerPC code on Intel-baesd Macs. Transparent to users. Pretty fast. Jobs demos Rosetta used to run PowerPC macs on Intel-based Macs. Jobs shows Microsoft Excel/Word running on Intel-based Mac (without any porting and/or recompiling). Jobs also shows Photoshop CS2 with all plugins that are translated and run on Intel-based Mac without significant speed decrease.

10:48 am A developer transition kit is being released. Just for developers. It's a 3.64 GHz Pentium 4 in a Power Mac enclosure. Select and Premier members only, for $999 (rental). Order today; available in two weeks.

10:52 am Launch of Microsoft Office 2004 was best product launch for Mac OS X. New version of Messenger due for Macs in the next few months. Additionally, a new update for Exchange users. MacBU commits to delivering a "Universal Binary" for Microsoft Office. Jobs also invites Bruce Chizen of Adobe on stage to talk about Intel-based Mac transition. Adobe says it is committed bringing its applications to Intel-based Macs.

[BJ_M]

Jobs shows Microsoft Excel/Word running on Intel-based Mac (without any porting and/or recompiling). Jobs also shows Photoshop CS2 with all plugins that are translated and run on Intel-based Mac without significant speed decrease.

Hmmmm. Methinks most of us have been running those applications (or their previous versions) natively on Intel chips for over a decade now. Part of me wants to just lean back and say, "so?" with a big *shrug*.

[edDV]

Confirmed = from the apple speech/press talk today:

...
10:31 am We face two challenges. The first, is Mac OS X on Intel. We've been maintaining Mac OS X on Intel AND PPC, secretly, for the past 5 years, just in case.
10:32 am This entire last half hour the keynote has been running on an Intel box running Mac OS X.

Smart strategy. Creative destruction at its best.

Thanks BJ_M for this summary from the developer's perspective.

[SLK001]

Me thinks that Apple wants to take advantage of the new DRM capability that will be embedded in the HARDWARE of the upcoming Intel processors.

[BJ_M]

Me thinks that Apple wants to take advantage of the new DRM capability that will be embedded in the HARDWARE of the upcoming Intel processors.

this is a false rumor it has turned out --


though I mentioned the same thing yesterday .... since then, it was shown to be false

[edDV]

Intel has been working on extreme DRM technology. I still think this is part of the Apple strategy. It may not yet be in the PentiumD or current chipset. No reason it can't be on a dongle or smartcard,etc.

Jobs has his eyes on the Hollywood prize and in this context, an Intel partnership makes sense.

BJ_M:

While driving this morning. I heard Rush Limbaugh's analysis of the Apple-Intel news. It was near identical to your post from yesterday. I think you have a fan. He credited Mac Blogs.

[hhhhbk]

could be a good move by apple
an intel chip could really boost their market share
as then the only question for consumers would be software related

it would only be the question of do you prefer windows or mac OS

intel chips seem to have a hell of a lot of power compared to amd
and are great workhorses

next thing you know theyll be offering pcs with windows too
dual operating systems etc

dell seem to be doing well as just a supplier of other firms products so why not apple

?????do dell or apple make their own TFT screens or are they just rebadged as both seem to have very good reputations?????

[BJ_M]

dell and apple have other companies make their monitors and lcd's to their specifications

[edDV]

...

next thing you know theyll be offering pcs with windows too
dual operating systems etc

Unlikely. As long as Apple needs to sell a complete package with hardware, they will use the same BIOS and chipset tricks to keep the Mac OS tied to Apple supplied hardware. There is no reason why they would allow Windows to run on their platform except in a highly controlled way.

Likewise they have the option to build a MacOSX that runs on a Dell et. al. but that has nothing to do with their decision to run their own machines on Intel chips. There is no reason to expect Mac OSX to run on a PC unless Apple changes their hardware strategy.

[Faustus]

Apple considers itself a hardware company. Even though they are best at software IMHO because of this there will still be plenty of obstacles to running OSX on your homebrew PC.

That aside its a switch that I would have made long ago and I'm glad apple is doing it. They are going with the power is. I'm sick of each new hopeful processor never living up to its expectations as they try and pour the megahertez on. Think about it, they always stall out about mid life expectancy for a chip.

Only AMD would have been a better decision IMHO, because then they could use Athlon 64s and that would have been divine. That aside I applaude the idea and I am going to start saving for a new highend Macintosh when the transistion is almost complete. Two years should be plenty to get a few grand together.

[pchan]

With about 5% market share, switching to Intel is not going make much different. Maybe just improve some margin on lower cost Intel cpu. I don't think users are going to notice much speed improvement with countless debate on X86 vs PowerPC performance in the past.

It will do Apple good if they just sell OS X on x86 platform and forget about selling proprietary pc hardware. In that way, some of the 95% of PC users can consider switching to OS X if they are pissed with their current OS.

[stiltman]

Apple considers itself a hardware company. Even though they are best at software IMHO because of this there will still be plenty of obstacles to running OSX on your homebrew PC.

http://news.com.com/Apple+throws+the+switch%2C+aligns+with+Intel+-+page+2/2100-7341_3-...ml?tag=st.next

Apple Senior Vice President Phil Schiller addressed the issue of running Windows on Macs, saying there are no plans to sell or support Windows on an Intel-based Mac. "That doesn't preclude someone from running it on a Mac. They probably will," he said. "We won't do anything to preclude that."

If that's possible, then is running OSX.X on any generic pc (with some hack that will be on the internet for sure)

[edDV]

I'm holding on for a Pentum D (dual cpu) soon followed by a pentium Q? (quad processor)

[Faustus]

If that's possible, then is running OSX.X on any generic pc (with some hack that will be on the internet for sure)

As has been said before Apple will NOT make customers go into the firmware and manually assign drive usages and set sleep options or any crap like that.

Because they are using the CPU does NOT mean its a standard board, but it not being a stardard board does NOT mean windows will not run on it. I think it will be a custom solution to be sure.

What does that mean for a hack? Possible but I bet it will be a special board or something.

[DereX888]

Imagine it's 1994 and someone receives a message from the future that says "Apple to ditch IBM, switch to Intel chips".

Imagine its 1984 and after that famous apple's "Big Brother smashing" commercial we see a mesage from the future: in 1994 apple *will* join Big Brother in mac-making
same thing almost


Well to me its obvious:
With Apple's announced move to Intel x86 architecture its obvious that GIGAHERTZ COUNT COUNTS MORE THAN THE CHIP'S DESIGN and here is my middle finger to all Mac users who were telling me its otherwise through all these years :P
After all I had Mac and PC at the same time (at work), but personally I never had need to use Adobe nor I ever want to fire up entire Photoshop just to crop up some of my pics, thus I never saw this supposedlly big difference between PPC and PC, if anything - its the G4s thats always been dragging behind supposedly 'slower in performance' P4s

And past my mean remarks (but Im still laughing out loud! ) all I can say is: finally!
MAC OS on Intel's x86 = best of both worlds

And who said Windows will dominate PCs forever?
Its not coincidence that MacIntel is scheduled for almost the same time as Longhorn's release... Poor Gates, seems like he donated all his wealth prematurely, didnt he? I'd say before another 10 years pass the MAC OS will be dominant OS on the entire PC market...

Its not just video market with intel's hardware DRM as BJ_M suggested that pushes Mac into Intel. The ipod/itunes example is also way overrated, I'll be surprised if anything close to 0.1% of overall mp3 users worldwide have used itunes or even thought of owning an ipod. Music market has been spoilt since napster, and no teenager will ever pay for music like it was before 1999, no matter how low itunes etc will charge per songs. Lets not fool ourselves: average consumer (specially teenage consumers) won't pay for something what they can get in ~5min of search on the web, not mentioning the whole notion of "its aired for free on the radio/tv, why then would I want to pay for same or worse quality same song in mp3 format of off the web?". Add the DRM for the songs locking such song on the user's stupid ipod and you get another reason why not to buy it from any itunes (i know, there are ways to 'unlock/crack' the protection - but if kid is smart enough to crack protectection on a song he is certainly capable of finding it and downloading it for free, without any hassle).
Also only those who really have more money than they need to feed their families and pay their bills would buy ipod or let their kids use their CC to pay for songs on itunes etc in the first place. How many of such families we have in wealthiest western countries? Real minority. So how about the rest of the world, where $1 for a song is as much as they spend for food? But they also have computers and internet there... lol!
For every 1Mil of songs sold on itunes there are 100Mil of same songs distributed for free on p2p... it won't be any different with 'iflicks' or video ipods. Heck, Im making good money, and i have never own stupid ipod nor i ever bought any song on itunes or such either

Worldwide Apple's market share falls down year by year, regardless of how cool every newest Mac looks. Look is not everything in computer markets, its the price. And having almost everything proprietary costs alot (both Apple and its consumers). Apple would have been phased-out beyond any visible market footprint within next couple of years if it havent made this revolutionary 'switch' now. That the only reason for this 'sudden' move IMO.

[vitualis]

I would like to formally say to all the Mac fanboys, "I told you so..."

IMHO, this is really good news and a perfectly logical move for Apple. The x86 processor being somehow architectually inferior? It depends on your tastes, I suppose but the fact of the matter is, the best performing CPUs for desktop computers are all x86 based. There is so much RISC type design in the modern P4 and Athlons that the old RISC vs CISC divide is basically irrelevant.

I firmly believe that x86 Macs will not use standard components, insofar as the BIOS, mobo and perhaps chipset. One of the advantages of Macs over PCs have always been that you didn't need to fiddle with the BIOS or see it during boot up. If Apple does make Mac OS available for non-Apple machines (though probably with some limitations -- e.g., incomplete hardware support), it will be some SERIOUS competition against Windows. If anything, it should force Microsoft to lift its game.

Regards.

[Nilfennasion]

If anything, it should force Microsoft to lift its game.

From admitting 63,000 known defects is the best they can do? The question of "to what?" is kind of redundant.

[smearbrick1]

If anything, it should force Microsoft to lift its game.

From admitting 63,000 known defects is the best they can do? The question of "to what?" is kind of redundant.

Yea... another anti-Microsoft comment from the angry elf. Did you work for them and get fired or something? Illegitimate child of Bill Gates maybe?

Also only those who really have more money than they need to feed their families and pay their bills would buy ipod or let their kids use their CC to pay for songs on itunes etc in the first place.

Is this really an earth-shaking statement? I mean, come on... Of course only those people with disposable incomes are going to shell out cash for an IPOD and Itunes. Not too many poverty stricken families are going to forego dinner tonight so the whole fam can enjoy the latest Audioslave release. I have an Ipod and have never/will never buy anything from the Itunes store. It's not necessary. By the way, I have more money than I need to feed my family and pay my bills. What the hell else am I going to do with it? I can't take it with me when I die.

[Faustus]

I would like to formally say to all the Mac fanboys, "I told you so..."

I've said for years it would be a great thing. Glad its finally here. All my theories about concerent versions and xcode portability are true. So I told me so also.

This is a healthy switch for apple, but it does NOT change the Mac into a PC which seems to be what some are thinking it means.

Two cars can use the same engine and be entirely different cars, it just means both makers liked that engine.

How smooth will it go? In some ways fine, in others painful. just like every major change along the way. In 5 years most of use will not be concerned any longer with "the last great change"

[DereX888]

If anything, it should force Microsoft to lift its game.

From admitting 63,000 known defects is the best they can do? The question of "to what?" is kind of redundant.

Yea... another anti-Microsoft comment from the angry elf. Did you work for them and get fired or something? Illegitimate child of Bill Gates maybe?

Nothing anti-Microsoft about it. If anything its anti-monopoly, and I agree with Nilfennasion.
It is Microsoft who made (way inferior) Mac OS knock-off for PCs, and it was extremely good for home computing progress, everyone should or will admit it in the future. If it wasn't for Win95/98 my Parents wouldn't probably touch any computers at home with a 10ft pole until now... and probably most of you began their own "PC ride" on one of the flavours of Chicago code anyway
However its been 10 years since Windows95 hit the market, and Msoft not only lost its progress drive, but it actually sat down on its NT/Chicago cobbled together code, because they already are THE Monopoly and there is no need for competition anymore. If you don't see that then it is perhaps you are the one who is working for Microsoft?

Also only those who really have more money than they need to feed their families and pay their bills would buy ipod or let their kids use their CC to pay for songs on itunes etc in the first place.

Is this really an earth-shaking statement? I mean, come on... Of course only those people with disposable incomes are going to shell out cash for an IPOD and Itunes. Not too many poverty stricken families are going to forego dinner tonight so the whole fam can enjoy the latest Audioslave release. I have an Ipod and have never/will never buy anything from the Itunes store. It's not necessary. By the way, I have more money than I need to feed my family and pay my bills. What the hell else am I going to do with it? I can't take it with me when I die.

Perhaps you should learn how to read in the first place?
I wrote:
...Lets not fool ourselves: average consumer (specially teenage consumers) won't pay for something what they can get in ~5min of search on the web, - that obviously includes YOU, and "...add the DRM for the songs locking such song on the user's stupid ipod and you get another reason why not to buy it from any itunes (i know, there are ways to 'unlock/crack' the protection - but if kid is smart enough to crack protectection on a song he is certainly capable of finding it and downloading it for free, without any hassle)" - that includes YOU again, and "...Also only those who really have more money than they need to feed their families and pay their bills would buy ipod or let their kids use their CC to pay for songs on itunes etc in the first place. How many of such families we have in wealthiest western countries? Real minority. - that includes YOU once again!
Are you half blind or half brain?
Talking bout "earth-shaking" statements, here is one FOR YOU: I do believe that majority of internet users should have been required to pass some minimum IQ test before theyre allowed on the web!

I would like to formally say to all the Mac fanboys, "I told you so..."

This is a healthy switch for apple, but it does NOT change the Mac into a PC which seems to be what some are thinking it means.

you meant PC into MAC rather?
Because the mos important news part is that the entire PC market will get some good, reliable new OS - MAC OS for x86. I honestly don't care about entire existing Mac infrastructure and its current users. Theyre the 1.8% dinosaurs and nothing would or will have change that.
It was 'live and prosper' or 'die and be forgotten' for Apple to switch to x86. Im glad Jobs was smart enough to admit (indirectly) defeat of PowerPC and do the switch to x86. Its a mutual benefit and opportunity - a great software for PCs, and almost unlimited customer market for Apple.
Intel always made superior chips, its only recent 64-bit where AMD have beaten it to dust (for now).
If the future 'MAC OS for x86" or "Apple x86" won't require special mobos (with 'intel inside' stickers all over ) then obviously it won't matter in the long run whom Apple chose now.
We'll see what future brings.

Im just glad Apple smartened up and bet it future on the winning horse.

[Nilfennasion]

You know how you can tell a person who has been using computers of any kind for more than ten years from those who haven't? By how they will jump in to defend Microsoft from any and all charges.

I shudder to think what VCRs or DVD players would be like today if Sony were the only people who were able to manufacture either. Or what loudspeakers would be like if only Marantz or Yamaha were able to make them. Or if General Electric were the only people who could make a TV. Or if the Church had bought all the printing presses. Or if IBM had been allowed to keep the PC a closed, propietary architecture. I could go on and on, but history is so full of examples that prove a monopoly is not conducive to innovation it is scary.

I welcome Apple's move to use of a more standardised part. Whether it saves them from their own bad business decisions is another matter, but if it brings a stable, reliable OS into the market, then about time. I cannot wait to see a day when OSX or the like is running from a PC (especially given what Linux offers... blegh).

[smearbrick1]

If anything, it should force Microsoft to lift its game.

From admitting 63,000 known defects is the best they can do? The question of "to what?" is kind of redundant.

Yea... another anti-Microsoft comment from the angry elf. Did you work for them and get fired or something? Illegitimate child of Bill Gates maybe?

Nothing anti-Microsoft about it. If anything its anti-monopoly, and I agree with Nilfennasion.
It is Microsoft who made (way inferior) Mac OS knock-off for PCs, and it was extremely good for home computing progress, everyone should or will admit it in the future. If it wasn't for Win95/98 my Parents wouldn't probably touch any computers at home with a 10ft pole until now... and probably most of you began their own "PC ride" on one of the flavours of Chicago code anyway ;)
However its been 10 years since Windows95 hit the market, and Msoft not only lost its progress drive, but it actually sat down on its NT/Chicago cobbled together code, because they already are THE Monopoly and there is no need for competition anymore. If you don't see that then it is perhaps you are the one who is working for Microsoft?

Also only those who really have more money than they need to feed their families and pay their bills would buy ipod or let their kids use their CC to pay for songs on itunes etc in the first place.

Is this really an earth-shaking statement? I mean, come on... Of course only those people with disposable incomes are going to shell out cash for an IPOD and Itunes. Not too many poverty stricken families are going to forego dinner tonight so the whole fam can enjoy the latest Audioslave release. I have an Ipod and have never/will never buy anything from the Itunes store. It's not necessary. By the way, I have more money than I need to feed my family and pay my bills. What the hell else am I going to do with it? I can't take it with me when I die.

Perhaps you should learn how to read in the first place?
I wrote:
...Lets not fool ourselves: average consumer (specially teenage consumers) won't pay for something what they can get in ~5min of search on the web, - that obviously includes YOU, and "...add the DRM for the songs locking such song on the user's stupid ipod and you get another reason why not to buy it from any itunes (i know, there are ways to 'unlock/crack' the protection - but if kid is smart enough to crack protectection on a song he is certainly capable of finding it and downloading it for free, without any hassle)" - that includes YOU again, and "...Also only those who really have more money than they need to feed their families and pay their bills would buy ipod or let their kids use their CC to pay for songs on itunes etc in the first place. How many of such families we have in wealthiest western countries? Real minority. - that includes YOU once again!
Are you half blind or half brain?
Talking bout "earth-shaking" statements, here is one FOR YOU: I do believe that majority of internet users should have been required to pass some minimum IQ test before theyre allowed on the web! :-x

Look child... I was merely pointing out that your statement was obvious. No impoverished family of nine is going to run out and buy an Ipod. I wasn't really even commenting on your Itunes comment. It doesn't really matter... Itunes has been kicking ass since it's release... same with the Ipod. This probably explains why the price hasn't dropped at all. Apparently there are just too many people out there with too much money.

Microsoft stifles competition... SO WHAT!!! I could give two shits about Microsofts market position or bullshit like that. As you pointed out, apparently I don't have enough brain cells to comprehend the implications of the effect a monopoly could have on me and the rest of my brainless friends fiddling with their inferior, bug-ridden windows machines.

Sitting here, discussing this on a web forum with teenagers and unemployed mid-twenty/thirtysomethings isn't my idea of action. If you are really passionate about this cause, set yourself on fire.

So... with that, go back to your parents basement and don't come out until dinner time. Your time on mom and dad's computer has run out.

[DereX888]

Sitting here, discussing this on a web forum with teenagers and unemployed mid-twenty/thirtysomethings isn't my idea of action. If you are really passionate about this cause, set yourself on fire.

So... with that, go back to your parents basement and don't come out until dinner time. Your time on mom and dad's computer has run out.

I guess youre talking on your own example?
<sigh> Im tired of quoting myself to you again, but here we go: "...Im making good money, and i have never own stupid ipod nor i ever bought any song on itunes or such either..." - have missed that part of my post as well? So - what actually have you read from my entire post to which you've been replying to!?
Opposite to you Im being very well paid for sitting bored (most of the time) in front of this PC
... [cut useless flame-inducing discussion]
Actually I find no pleasure continuing it with you, so I wish you good luck listening to music in yer parents basement on your gaypod, oops - I meant ipod

[smearbrick1]

Sitting here, discussing this on a web forum with teenagers and unemployed mid-twenty/thirtysomethings isn't my idea of action. If you are really passionate about this cause, set yourself on fire.

So... with that, go back to your parents basement and don't come out until dinner time. Your time on mom and dad's computer has run out.

I guess youre talking on your own example?
<sigh> Im tired of quoting myself to you again, but here we go: "...Im making good money, and i have never own stupid ipod nor i ever bought any song on itunes or such either..." - have missed that part of my post as well? So - what actually have you read from my entire post to which you've been replying to!? :roll:
Opposite to you Im being very well paid for sitting bored (most of the time) in front of this PC :)
... [cut useless flame-inducing discussion]
Actually I find no pleasure continuing it with you, so I wish you good luck listening to music in yer parents basement on your gaypod, oops - I meant ipod :D

Gaypod... not quite what I would call funny, but I'll let it slide. Amazingly enough, you and I have more in common than I imagined. I pigeon holed you as just another unemployed over grown child. Instead, you are just as bored with work as I am (and well paid, I might add). I apologize for my petty comments. Although I never once stated that you or your family ever bought an Ipod or anything... You'll probably throw this back at me stating that I still haven't read your original post... blah... blah... blah....

Anywho... my apology still stands...

Back to my boring, overpaid existence.

[DereX888]

Gaypod... not quite what I would call funny, but I'll let it slide. Amazingly enough, you and I have more in common than I imagined. I pigeon holed you as just another unemployed over grown child. Instead, you are just as bored with work as I am (and well paid, I might add). I apologize for my petty comments. Although I never once stated that you or your family ever bought an Ipod or anything... You'll probably throw this back at me stating that I still haven't read your original post... blah... blah... blah....

Anywho... my apology still stands...

Back to my boring, overpaid existence.

Apologies unneccessary.
Im not easily offended in real life, much less on the web.
Aside from different stand on ipods seems like we really have at least few other things in common, so its all good
Healthy exchange of opinions with addition of spicy remarks have never hurt anyone

I guess I'll go back now to my boring, overpaid existence as well.

[BJ_M]

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=271399

for that poppysmoke that the powerchip is somehow faster than an amd .. (once again)


this topic was already covered in depth in news several days prev. also btw

[hhhhbk]

could be a good move by apple
an intel chip could really boost their market share
as then the only question for consumers would be software related

it would only be the question of do you prefer windows or mac OS

intel chips seem to have a hell of a lot of power compared to amd
and are great workhorses

next thing you know theyll be offering pcs with windows too
dual operating systems etc

dell seem to be doing well as just a supplier of other firms products so why not apple

?????do dell or apple make their own TFT screens or are they just rebadged as both seem to have very good reputations?????

Visionary
now wheres my cheque MR Jobs
also accept briefcases filled with cash

http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=sci_tech&id=40577701

[DereX888]

oh please
who the fu*k cares about Apple?
They made good 'puters - but 20 years ago. So did IBM some 40 years ago - and who cares?
Each and every companies and brands slide to oblivion after a while.

The last known good product from Apple was software - OS X, at its 5th birthday now or soon, and even that is not worth mentioning if it won't be usable on standard x86 architecture or at least future 64bit standard architecture like AMD's. Even bestest OS means nothing if iafter 5 years its being use on some 2% of the computers only :/

Please - enough of that shmapple crap, let'em make those gaypods and sell music online to underage kids.
This company lost its wings 10-15 years ago, and it seems there is only talk (about it) whats left from once mighty Apple Computers.

yawn.
apple.
LOL
bite it

[Faustus]

words

Miss your meds this morning? Apple sucks? Tell that to my Macbook Pro. Its the best laptop I've ever used.

[DereX888]

words

Miss your meds this morning? Apple sucks? Tell that to my Macbook Pro. Its the best laptop I've ever used.

As you've said: "Its the best laptop" YOU have ever used...
Apple won't suck less just because you never had any better...