PIONEER DVR-720 vs PANASONIC DMR-E95H : Which one ?

[donpedro]

After some time of reading and comparing I came up with these two recorders. Now I need some help to pick one.

I live in EU (PAL world) and here is why I picked these recorders:
- must have support for NTSC/PAL recording (JVC and SONY does not do that)
- minimum 160GB HDD
- must be able to do split and cut out commercials

So question is... Which one to pick and why? Here are my current + and -
- I am leaning towards Pioneer due all the lordsmurf's posts about Panasonic's PQ
- Pioneer has DV IN/OUT
- I had Panasonic (80) and I liked navigation and work with it.
- I prefer RW instead of RAM (my PC burner does not read RAM)
- Price of both is same here
- Whenever I look, Panasonic seems to score more then Pioneer

So again... What are differences between them in other areas that might help me to pick one ?

[donpedro]

I am going to try one more time... Nobody who can compare both units from personal experience ???

[handyguy]

Panasonic has new models coming out soon, I thought it was may, but might be later this month.
https://www.videohelp.com/dvdrecorders

[donpedro]

I know... even Pioneer has new models... But I would like to compare those two models.

[kabanero]

- must have support for NTSC/PAL recording (JVC and SONY does not do that)-

donpedro,

I don't know about European version of JVC recorders, but I have M10S here in US. I also have Sony NTSC Digital8 camcorder TRV840.

One day my friend brought me Hi8 tape recorded in D8 PAL and asked me if I could transfer it to NTSC VHS or DVD.

My first surprise was that my NTSC Sony TRV840 D8 camcorder was able to play D8 PAL. Of course, when I tried to copy that tape to my Panasonic NTSC VCR, it didn't work.

Then I tried to record that tape to JVC M10S via FireWire. It didn't work, JVC complained that PAL recording is not supported.

Then I tried to record that tape to JVC via S-video, and it worked!!!. That was my second surprise. Final NTSC video on DVD was littlle bit stretched vertically (or squeezed horizontally) due to the difference in frame size between NTSC and PAL, but the point is that I was able to record D8 PAL to my NTSC JVC M10S from NTSC D8 camcorder.

[Neil1970Poole]

Although you say they support recording in PAL/NTSC - are you completely sure? - I know they will PLAY BACK in PAL/NTSC but would be surprised if they do actually record in both formats (usually its only one or the other).

I know this isn't really answering your question - Just wanted to say be careful.

[lordsmurf]

- Whenever I look, Panasonic seems to score more then Pioneer

Grain of salt.
Some of those reviews are just lip service to their friend.
Most of them "conveniently" fail to give testing criteria.
Or when they do, it's retard stuff like color and remotes.

[kabanero]

Although you say they support recording in PAL/NTSC - are you completely sure? - I know they will PLAY BACK in PAL/NTSC but would be surprised if they do actually record in both formats (usually its only one or the other).

I know this isn't really answering your question - Just wanted to say be careful.

Actually LiteOn recorders can record PAL and NTSC.

[donpedro]

Although you say they support recording in PAL/NTSC - are you completely sure? - I know they will PLAY BACK in PAL/NTSC but would be surprised if they do actually record in both formats (usually its only one or the other).

I know this isn't really answering your question - Just wanted to say be careful.

If it was for me, then yes... It is in manual.

[donpedro]

kabanero: It is in JVC manual that they do not record NTSC signal.

kabanero: I am not interested in LiteOn

[kabanero]

kabanero: It is in JVC manual that they do not record NTSC signal.

Well, I think you might be right. May be my Sony D8 TRV840 converts D8 PAL video to D8 NTSC when playing back through S-video. Because when I tried via FireWire, JVC refused to record PAL.

[gshelley61]

The Pioneer will easily be superior in both recorded image quality and amount of beneficial features (especially their built-in input video picture adjustments that the Panasonic simply does not have). No contest.

[Synergy]

I know... even Pioneer has new models... But I would like to compare those two models.

Maybe you should ask the question at AV Forums instead of here now that you are back to PAL system. The following quote from Rasczak is interesting:

The Pioneer is the 'weakest' of the 'big four', i.e. Panasonic, Sony, Toshiba and Pioneer, with regards to the quality of the recordings. That's not to say they aren't good though - it's just the others are better. At the 1 hour per disc (XP, HQ, Fine) setting the difference is minimal. But at 2hrs (SP) the difference becomes noticeable with increased blocking visible on the Pioneer compared to the others. Post 2hrs 20mins (the Pioneer resolution drop) the quality tails off dramatically. The Toshiba can avoid this with intrim resolutions (but not in DVD compatibility mode).

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1687107#post1687107

The opinions on Pioneer seem quite different depending on either NTSC or PAL system, and according to the following news link:

http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArticle.jhtml?duid=mtfh93333_2005-06-0...t345684_newsml

Pioneer didn't do too well in the Japanese market either, trailing even Sharp.

[donpedro]

Thanks... I will read posts that you linked...

For now, some interesting quotes from that NEWS link

Looks like bad news for some JVC funs

TOKYO, June 6 (Reuters) - Struggling consumer electronics maker Victor Co. of Japan Ltd. (JVC) said on Monday it may outsource production of low-end DVD recorders because it is difficult to log a profit from manufacturing them on its own.

"We are considering outsourcing production of low-priced DVD recorders, specifically those not equipped with a hard disc drive," said a JVC spokesman. "The main reason is that price competition is especially tough in the low end of the market."

JVC majority owner is Panasonic ???

JVC, owned 52.4 percent by Panasonic firm Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd.

And last... market share in Japan

Matsushita was the leader with 27 percent
Sony Corp. at 20.6 percent
Toshiba Corp. at 15.6 percent
Sharp Corp. at 10.2 percent
Pioneer Corp. at 9.6 percent
Mitsubishi Electric at 7.0 percent.

And one last interesting quote

Japan accounts for more than half of the global DVD recorder market. DVD recorders have been slow to take off in other markets such as the United States, where TV set-top boxes with hard drives, such as those made by TiVo Inc. , are popular.

Maybe we should read Japanese forums

[gshelley61]

Why is that bad news? Outsourcing production will lead to lower retail prices on JVC entry level machines. Sounds fine to me.

[donpedro]

Well... maybe you are right, but I have seen many posts about moving production somwhere and complains about it... Also many discutions about quality and where exactly each machine was made. That is what I ment.