Sony vs. JVC vs. Panny vs. Pioneer

[lordsmurf]

Yes, I agree there is no perfect DVD recorder so far. They all have their strong and weak points, with a few quirks thrown in to boot. Plus, it is very much an "eye of the beholder" thing... personal tastes, individual perceptions and the actual tasks the recorder will mainly be used for all influence opinions on which one might be the best choice for you.

I'm in full agreeance. I know I'm not the only one who has noticed that the new Panasonic ES10 records with a very strong redish tone. The skin tones are more pinkish than normal. Has anyone else noticed this and if so does it bother you? Just curious

This was one of the first things I noticed, and it irritates me. Wholly unacceptable. It is also still doing the "darken colors" thing, which decimates dark colors to pure black or gooey dark smears.

[zorankarapancev]

ejai,

If I have noticed anything like that I would have definitely reported it in my review.

Actually, when I compared ES10 recordings with the ones done with the E60 I noticed that my old recorder has just a slight greenish tint that I didn’t see before. I found that the colors on a new recorder are pure and vibrant and the whole fidelity of the picture is more natural compared to the old one.

I saw images from ES10 presented in different threads from several members of our forum. They were compared with the images from the other DVD recorders, as well as with the images from the original sources. I didn’t notice the color anomaly that you are talking about in all of those examples.

I found only one comment like yours on this forum and that makes me wonder about the quality control in the new Panasonic factory in Singapore.

[lordsmurf]

I saw images from ES10 presented in different threads from several members of our forum. They were compared with the images from the other DVD recorders, as well as with the images from the original sources. I didn’t notice the color anomaly that you are talking about in all of those examples.

It's hard to miss:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1337014#1337014

Look at the JVC images. Clean and proper color, true to the tape.
Look at the Panasonic. Dark and red. It looks like shit.

[zorankarapancev]

lordsmurf,

… Again, please read carefully before responding to my posts.

I said:

“I saw images from ES10 presented in different threads from several members of our forum. They were compared with the images from the other DVD recorders, as well as with the IMAGES FROM THE ORIGINAL SOURCES.”

I was referring specifically to gshelley61 and trhouse postings.

I didn’t miss any of the slacker postings, but I cannot judge the presented images without having seen the original VHS tape. You are saying:

“Look at the JVC images. Clean and proper color, true to the tape.”

Please answer this: How did you come to that conclusion without seeing the tape?

If I can allow myself to compare the two posted images that you are referring to, and to make any conclusion it would be this:

- The JVC image is washed out and looks quite lifeless. Everything is gray as this is recorded on some other planet, not on Earth. Definitely, the black level problem is not corrected on the new JVC recorders and, even worse, there is no user selectable option for black level. On the other side, the Panasonic image is healthy, vibrant and dynamic in color. You have to be color blind not to see that difference.

- See the eyes of the girl: on the Panasonic image we have well defined lines of the girls eyes, while on the JVC image we have definite lack of detail and sharpness - nothing but an artistic pastel interpretation of the human eye.

- While you are there, move your eyes to the left. Do you see the vertical line from the post behind the girl? At the Panasonic image it is pretty much a well defined vertical line, while with the JVC image it is an indefinable vertical blur. If you want to see more zig-zag vertical lines from the JVC recorder go to:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=273291&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

Look at the vertical lines on the red colored tubes on the left side of the image, as well as on the lady’s blouse between her head and left hand.
The JVC DVD recorder is not able to correctly record vertical lines, period! It’s so obvious that everybody can easily see that.

- Go back to the previous images - JVC has problems with the horizontal lines too! See the horizontal rail behind the little girl. On the Panasonic image, the line on the top and the line on bottom of the rail are as sharp as they can get from the old VHS tape. On the JVC image we can see 4-5 lines that compete between themselves as they try to expend through the image looking for more real estate.

- Look at the girl’s mouth. At the JVC image you can see the girl’s teeth. In the Panasonic image you can clearly see that there are only two visible teeth. No more, no less!

We do not need more analysis to prove that the JVC DVD recorders, without the aid of external electronic enhancements, are far from spectacular.

Fortunately, more and more people these days can afford parallel testing of DVD recorders and can therefore SEE for themselves the obvious difference in the images as I just demonstrated right now.

Sorry… slowly, but surely… the truth has come out at last.

At the end, I understand that there are members of this forum who are satisfied with their JVC recorders, and I fully respect that fact. My words should not take away anything from their enjoyment of using their machines, since that is the point of having them. You know very well that I have never dissected and analyzed the images in such detail from any DVD recorder and I did this time only because I hope that it will help all of us to learn from each other and respect the differences in opinions and needs of our members.

This posting was not intended to offend any of our members and I apologize to anyone who may have felt that way.

[LCSHG]

zorankarapancev Wrote

[QUOTE]
The “Home Cinema” magazine (April 2005) rounded up four of the top DVD recorder models currently on the market and tested them to within an inch of their electronic lives:
[UNQUOTE]

------------------------------------------------------------

Do you really believe that.
I have an ILO DVDRHD04 and it is outstanding for all around recording. For VHS to DVD and copy protection problems it can not be beat.
If I wanted another good quilaty recorder to supplement the ILO I would get a Pioneer.
As lordsmurf said there is no recorder that is best in everything.
As I said before magazine reviews are just the reviewers biased opinion.

[lordsmurf]

“Look at the JVC images. Clean and proper color, true to the tape.”

Please answer this: How did you come to that conclusion without seeing the tape?

I don't need to see the original tape. There are two key factors at play here:

(1) the fact that the Panasonic smudged out hair while the JVC retained individuals hairs. If one machine can get them, obviously it was on the tape. The recorder is not fabricating it.

(2) VHS is not "true black", never has been, never will be. It is a very very very dark gray. This is what the JVC is showing, as a tape is going to be.

I don't know how much VHS you've worked with, but it's obviously not much for you to totally overlook these two glaring issues. It couldn't be any simpler.

As far as comparing the little girl image, it's not the frame. All that stuff you just said means nothing, apples to oranges.

[ejai]

Zorankarapancev you are 100% correct in your evaluation of that photo. I saw the same things you did, even earlier when I was using my JVC recorder. That is why I went back to using the Panasonic recorder.

Having both machines and being able to test and evaluate the results helps in seeing the differences. The JVC is far from superior in quality. Most reviews show that the Panasonic is a very good machine and in most cases considered better than the JVC.

I agree both have issues and it comes down to a matter of taste.