Sony vs. JVC vs. Panny vs. Pioneer

[zorankarapancev]

The “Home Cinema” magazine (April 2005) rounded up four of the top DVD recorder models currently on the market and tested them to within an inch of their electronic lives:

SONY RDR- HX900 – (5 stars): Just in case you haven’t quite got the picture yet, the RDR-HX900 is an absolute triumph. Extremely superb build, great compatibility and sublime picture performance combine to make this recorder a true star product for the price. A nice little touch is that it’s also stunningly simple to use.
Value for money – (5 stars) - The RDR-HX900 gives the impression of being a more expensive piece of kit then it is. This combination of build, convenience and performance makes it worth every penny.
Picture quality – (5 stars) – The amount of picture noise reduction and video equalizer technologies packed into this machine have borne fruit. Just in playback and recording terms, the Sony’s picture quality is nothing less then supreme.
Sound quality – (4 stars) – There are player-only machines at this price that produce a little more sonic realism and dynamic power then the Sony. But in general it delivers soundtracks and broadcast sound with clarity, solidity and great detail.
Build quality – (5 stars) – The Sony’s build quality is the best in this class by, well, roughly a country mile. Solid and robust casework, a quick, smooth-operating disc tray and an impressive remote control – what more could you ever possibly want?
Facilities – (5 stars) – The RDR-HX900 offers great disc compatibility – of all the recording formats, only DVD-RAM is left out – and an excellent, thoughtful interface design that makes it extremely easy to use.

PANASONIC DMR-E85H – (4 stars): The Panasonic’s blend of features and performance would, not long ago, have been enough to place it among the best in the category. But the bigger hard drives of its rivals, along with the Panasonic’s picture flaws as a player, mean that while it’s a good product, it’s not the greatest around.
Value for money – (4 stars) – With all its neat functions and dual-disc compatibility, the Panasonic offers good value. In strict performance terms it can be bettered at the price, but it’s a tidy all-rounder.
Picture quality – (4 stars) – The Panasonic’s off-air reception is excellent, resulting in TV images and recordings that have good image stability and motion tracking. It can be beaten in DVD playback mode, however.
Sound quality ( 4 stars) – The DMR-E85H produces movie soundtracks with a weighty, dynamic approach that does guarantee explosive big-screen thrills.
Build quality – (4 stars) – In a nutshell, very good. Sturdy casework and neat design make it a reassuring machine to live with, although the Sony is even better.
Facilities – (4 stars) – It offers an impressive blend of functions and options, including progressive scan and a variety of recording options. It’s also very convenient to use on an everyday basis.

JVC DR-MX1 – (4 stars) – The JVC’s performance is very impressive, but is bettered by the best of its competitors. The verdict on the JVC is simple: if you want the VHS deck for watching and/or archiving old tapes, it’s seriously worth considering. If you’re not bother about such things, there are smarter options out there.
Value for money – (4 stars) – This one of the more expensive recorders in it’s class, but with the extensive range of functions it offers, it’s hardly overpriced.
Picture quality – (4 stars) – The JVC’s picture quality is generally superb. Watch your movies in progressive-scan mode and you’ll immediately find a decently detailed, colorful picture balance.
Sound quality – (4 stars) – Decent, but nothing to write home about. It can deliver the thrills and spills of an action movie soundtrack, but for anything more subtle, it serves up an average performance.
Build quality – (4 stars) – The DR-MX1 is a well designed machine. It’s also relative compact and looks stylish.
Facilities – (5 stars) – What can we say? The JVC carries an everything but kitchen sink’ list of facilities, and if the inclusion of the VHS deck is what you need, then the feature count marks the JVC out as something special.

PIONEER DVR-520H – (3 stars) – Nothing about the Pioneer’s performance is particularly bad, and it offers very good usability, and onscreen menus that make it enjoyable and simple to use. But there are better recorders costing the same money that means that Pioneer does little to stand out from the crowd.
Value for money – (3 stars) – Pioneer’s pricing of it’s recorder range appears to make sense: but this player is a little too high in price to compete with its rivals. And 100 pounds is a little too much to pay compare to the ‘420 – basically the same player without DV socket.
Picture quality – (3 stars) – Decent, but the Pioneer can’t come close to the best. As a recorder it works fine, but is hampered by a TV receiver that doesn’t produce the strongest signal. Average DVD playback.
Sound quality – (4 stars) – A generally high standard of performance at the price. Movie soundtracks are given a muscular and dynamic air and, while CD’s sound OK, it’s again beaten by its competitors.
Build quality – (4 stars) – Certainly decent in terms of casework, but it’s up against the distinctly more thank-like construction of recorders like Sony in this test. Impressive, but not exceptional.
Facilities – (3 stars) – The market has rather overtaken the Pioneer recently: no progressive scan, a smaller hard drive then some rivals and only one of the three DVD recording formats is catered for. It does have DV input/output, however.

More or less I agree with the results of this test. I just want to add that the reviewers didn’t mention the lack of two very important features in this Sony model: “flexible recording mode” and “divide program feature”!

[nelson133]

Oh good, here goes another "my recorder is the best and I don't care what anybody else says" flame war. Happy bandwidth wasting everybody.
Nyah Levi

[kabanero]

zorankarapancev,

What is the point of your pointless and useless reviews? Waisting videohelp server space?

[lordsmurf]

Another useless review that tosses around "stars" and "good" and "great" and "excellent" ... but in the end doesn't mean anything at all. An exercise in elementary school vocabulary.

When the test parameters are unknown, and the meely-mouthed verbiage is the end product of the "thorough" tests, that and a $1 buys a 7/11 coffee.

At least this one didn't give bonus points for pretty colors and cool-looking remotes.

[gshelley61]

Err... The Pioneer does have progressive scan output. WTF?

I think the efforts of various VideoHelp forum members to share their experiences with specific DVD recorders are far more helpful than these vague, generalized reviews are.

The Sony is by far the most expensive unit in the group listed. What I've heard about it from those who own one is that it does a really great job, but that it costs too much for what you get.

Quality and functionality are very much in the eye of the beholder. I think we can all agree on that.

FWIW, I haven't seen any mid level consumer A/V products built in recent years that I would describe as having "extremely superb build" quality, including Sony gear.

[Frobozz]

The "Sound Quality" descriptions are delicious: "...a weighty, dynamic approach that does guarantee explosive big-screen thrills." Get this writer a job doing wine reviews!

[piano632]

I think it should be pointed out that these are PAL machines being reviewed here. NTSC counterparts may vary.

[donpedro]

Just for fun and comparasion I selected 4 DVD recorders with 160GB HDD and ordered them by price in place where I live (EU PAL). I took Panasonic as base price. Here are results:

83% SONY RDR-HX710/S
94% PIONEER DVR-720
100% PANASONIC DMR-E95HEG-S
100% JVC DR-MH30SE
141% JVC DR-MX1

So in my opinion, Sony is not the most expensive... Just a though...

[gshelley61]

Sony is easily the most expensive of the mid level consumer DVD recorders available here in the USA. Also, the JVC DR-MX1 has a built-in VCR along with the DVD recorder and a 80GB hard drive, so it can't really be compared as similar to the other machines in terms of features. It runs about $550-$600 here.

The current Pioneer 160GB HDD model in the USA is the Pioneer Elite DVR-57H which also has Tivo, so it isn't exactly like the Sony 160GB RDR-HX900 either. They are both about the same street price... $550-$600 (making the Sony more expensive since it does not have Tivo). The JVC DR-MH30S 160GB model can be found here for $400-$450. The Panasonic DMR-E95HS can be purchased for about $350-$400.

[heavyharmonies]

One MAJOR drawback to the Sony that I've seen reported in a number of places is that you cannot split a video segment into smaller parts. This flaw makes it utterly unusable. The fact that the so-called "reviewer" missed this makes me question the validity of the ratings.

[LCSHG]

Problem with ANY review is, It is an opinion of the person reviewing the product. The reviewer doesn’t really know the build quality or operation of the machine being reviewed. They just see the surface I don’t think they know what can or not be done with any unit. A review can be a help, but I have seen one review totally opposite of another. Besides this review left out a lot of very good units at much less price, like the LiteOn/Ilo.

[OldeMan]

Currently have Philips DVDR77. Pany ES10 , and just got a Sony GX300. Have owned Ilo D04 , Lite-on 5101 and a Pioneer 225S (BBs 220 model).

Picked up open box Sony RDR-GX300 with BB coupon at good price.

Sony GX300 Pluses...
1. Excellant Video quality in 60, 90 and 120 min modes.
2. Build quality, sturdy with fan.
3. Picture adjustments (recording input) similar to Pioneer.
4. IR blaster and good support for it.
5. Good connectivity pak, 3 s-video in and 2 out.
6. Supports DVD+R and DVD-R.

Sony GX300 negatives...
1.Media compatability sucks. I have a stack of various DVD-RW and DVD+RW and this Sony would NOT write or format any of them. Forget using 8x and most 4X RW media. Forget swaping RW media back and forth with your PC, once the PC has touched a RW DVD the Sony won't even format it any more. I did sucessfully create a DVD+R (8x Maxell) and a DVD-R (8x Fuji).
2. No firmware updates..period... what you get is ALL you'll get....
3. No thumbnails on finalized DVD+R or DVD-R DVDs. All you get is a list of files. This is the only DVD recorder I've seen without title thumbnails.
4. It has a 90 min recording mode, but no Flexible Recording mode that I can find. Even the Philips DVDR77 has a FR on timer record.
5. No component or DV input like Philips DVDR77.
6. Costly compared to other non-HD recorders.
7. Record buttons are hidden under panel on the remote... wtf

My $.02 worth on the Sony GX300.....

[LCSHG]

OldeMan

Quote from your post
4. IR blaster and good support for it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What exactly is this IR Blaster.
I have Dish Network Service. If I programed the Dish Reciever, had the VCR set for record and turned off. an IR Blaster [Dish called it that] in the Dish reciever would start the program, start the VCR and record the program.

I do not know of any DVD unit that will do this. Codes for this service are not available. Dish Network or Direct TV will only provide this function for there own DVD/HDD units.

[slacker]

My last three electronic devices were SONY brand... All crap! I will NOT even consider them anymore until they get their act together.

Pioneer. Who?

Taiwanese? No way, not yet anyway. Still crap!

JVC or Panasonic. That's it for me. But that's my problem. I can't decide.

[OldeMan]

Update on the Sony RDR-GX300, I did find one Fujifilm (Ricoh jpnw11) 2.4-4X DVD+RW that it would format and write on. It wouldn't use any of the DVD-RWs that I had.

The Sony finalized DVD+R's and RWs are NOT bitset to DVD-ROM book type. This is bad for compatability. My Philips 77 and Pany ES10 set DVD+Rs to booktype DVD-ROM for the best compatability of all burned DVD media.

The Sony 4 hour recording mode is as you would expect not very good.

I have returned the Sony due to the lack of FR recording, media pickiness and lack of firmware upgrades.

The Panasonic ES10 is a much better buy and rivals the Sony in things that matter to me except for the Sony IR blaster. The Panasonic seems to artifically enhance the colors (red push?) but otherwise gives pretty good video quality and does a great job recording from VHS tape input.

to LCSHG
The Sony GX300 IR blaster has a rather extensive list of set top boxes it can control with its own IR transmitter attached to the DVD recorder. I had no trouble configuring it to change channels on my SA3250HD digital cable box. This internal IR blaster feature is critical when the DVD recorder has its own interactive programming guide as many of the new HDD DVD recorders have.

as always ymmv

[jsganz]

OldeMan,
How's the picture quality compare on each of the recorders you have
(at various recording speeds)?

[JohnnyCNote]

I'm happy with my Pioneer....

[iluvJLO]

what is it with people and the tv tuner? who gives a crap about a tv tuner. I thought everyone was using S-Video. Why would you get a DVDR and then use a tuner?

[donpedro]

what is it with people and the tv tuner? who gives a crap about a tv tuner. I thought everyone was using S-Video. Why would you get a DVDR and then use a tuner?

I give a CRAP.

what is it with people and their stupid replies on forum ???

[lordsmurf]

what is it with people and the tv tuner? who gives a crap about a tv tuner. I thought everyone was using S-Video. Why would you get a DVDR and then use a tuner?

People still need it for cable or antenna. Still lots of analog coax out there.

[KeepItSimple]

Also some digital cable boxes (like mine) don't have s-video outputs, only composite. So what should produce the better recording on my ES-10: digital cable box tuner to DVD Recorder Tuner OR digital cable box tuner to composite video input? With a direct video connection on the ES-10 you can choose to turn the Line-In NR to on, off, or automatic. When the tuner is used that selection is not in the menu. I have no idea whether it's on or off then (or on auto).

[iluvJLO]

what is it with people and the tv tuner? who gives a crap about a tv tuner. I thought everyone was using S-Video. Why would you get a DVDR and then use a tuner?

I give a CRAP.

what is it with people and their stupid replies on forum ???

not our fault you're in the stone age. maybe a vcr is more suitable for you. 8)

[iluvJLO]

Also some digital cable boxes (like mine) don't have s-video outputs, only composite. So what should produce the better recording on my ES-10: digital cable box tuner to DVD Recorder Tuner OR digital cable box tuner to composite video input? With a direct video connection on the ES-10 you can choose to turn the Line-In NR to on, off, or automatic. When the tuner is used that selection is not in the menu. I have no idea whether it's on or off then (or on auto).

it's always best to use composite over the coax

[KeepItSimple]

tanks.

[OldeMan]

To jsganmz;
A Very subjective Evaluation of some DVD recorders.

History and Rant....
1. Philips DVDR75, my first recorder. purchased new May 2003, burned about 600 DVDs on it before burner failed (common problem). Created DVD+Rs very compatible. Firmware upgrades improved media compatability and error recovery. Motion artifacts. VHS tape copying is poor. No fan, ran hot.
2. Philips DVDR77, internal fan, many improvements over DVDR75. Bought a couple off ebay that failed within days. current one works fine. Didn't realize it was easy to use until I tried the Pioneer and the Sony. Finalized DVD Menus are OK (selectable background) better than the others I've used. Created DVD+Rs very compatible. DVD+RW can be edited. DV input. FR on timer recording only. Electronics are fragile. VHS tape copying is poor. More motion artifacts than later models of Pany, Sony or Pioneer. Philips was an early DVD leader and owns lots of patents but has essentially gotten out of US recorder market due to profit pressures and product reliability.

3. ILO04, bought new when first came out, I couldn't resist the price. Video quality wasn't bad. Audio not Dolby AC3. Several compatability issues. New firmware may have improved. cheap construction. Returned after 1 week.
4. Lite-On 5101 better firmware than the ILO. Strange video color/contrast problems for me. Unit may have been faulty. Audio not Dolby AC3. Some compatability issues. cheap construction. Returned after 2 days.

5. Panasonic ES10k, bought open box, nice for the price. Video excellant, color pushed. RAM great if you can find ANYTHING besides the recorder that will read it. Good compability with DVD+R bitset to DVD-ROM. VHS tape copying excellant. Only one choice for finalized DVD menu, Easy FR support. Good build quality. a keeper. Biggest issue for me is lack of finalized DVD menu options.

6. Pioneer DVR-225HS, bought open box. Video good, color just like source (excellant). Lots of adjustments. Good construction. Good FR support. No DVD+R/RW support. DVD-RW sucks compared to DVD+RW. More complicated to use than others. DVD menu support has a few choices, but user must press a key in DVD player to get it to do anything? wtf??? Returned after 1 week.

7. Sony GX300, bought open box. Video/color excellant at xp, sp modes. Great build quality. DVD+R support but no bitsetting to DVD-ROM. DVD-RW media support had media compatability issues for me. No firmware updates. DVD menu support is file list only. No FR recording mode. Complicated remote. Did not try VHS tape copy. Expensive compared to Pany ES10/Pioneer 220.. Returned after 2 days.

8. Pioneer DVR-531HS, bought new yesterday. Video excellant, color just like source (excellant). Even more adjustments than 220/225 models. Good construction. Good FR support. EPG, IR blaster, DVD-R DL support. HS dub to DVD-R/RW.
No DVD+R/RW support. DVD-RW sucks compared to DVD+RW. DVD menu support has same limitations as 225. Will not create auto chapters when recording to HDD (only to DVD). You can add chapters manually. More complicated to use than non-HDD models. This is not a VCR.
Biggest issue for me is lack of DVD menu options. BTW, Pioneer is the only brand that my cable box's VCR Commander will control.
If I can get the EPG to work as advertised, then this may be a keeper.

Source: Time-Warner SA3250HD digital cable box with S-video 4-output amp to DVD recorders. Never use recorder tuner.
Output: Viewed on Toshiba 50"rear projection HD monitor. Most compared side by side using pic in pic.

My Recorded Video quality ranking (XP, and SP modes):
1) Sony GX300, Pioneer 531S.
2) Panasonic ES10K.
3) Pioneer 225S, Philips DVDR77, ILo04.
4) Philips DVDR75, Lite-On 5101.

My Recorded Video quality ranking (LP 4 hour mode):
1) Panasonic ES10K, Pioneer 531S.
2) Pioneer 225S,
3) Philips DVDR77, Sony GX300, ILo04.
4) Lite-On 5101,
5) Philips DVDR75.

These rankings do not take into account some of the in between recording modes. For example the Philips have a full D1 2.5 hour mode and the Pany/Pioneer FR modes will do a good job between 2 and 3 hours. You can usually find examples that disprove generalizations.

Note: that while video quality is important it's not everything. Ease of use, firmware updates, broad media and standalone DVD player compatability are also very important.

I have not yet found a perfect DVD recorder.

NEXT DVD recorder wish list...
1 ) Pioneers/Sonys picture quality and adjustments.
2 ) Panasonics VHS tape copying and ease of use.
3 ) Toshiba's great created DVD menu flexibility.
4 ) Support for DVD+R and DVD+R DL bitset to DVD-ROM.
5 ) Dolby 5.1 recording capability.
6 ) EPG that works.
7 ) Auto chaptering and easy editing on HDD.(Pioneer?)
8 ) HS dub from HDD to DVD.
9 ) Downloadable firmware upgrades for media changes and other improvements.
10) User replaceable HD.
11) Of course, quality construction and a reasonable price.

My $.02 worth of opinions........

[jsganz]

Hey, I definitely appreciate your time & effort with the detailed comparisons.
I guess it depends on what your priorities are when deciding on a recorder.
Each one seems to have their own advantages & disadvantages.
I picked up a couple of DVDR77's off ebay awhile back & both are flawless
so far. For me, "chapter hiding" for editing out commercials etc. is pretty
dern important! Even though the -R/RW might have a slightly better picture
quality, the editing is a bit limited from what I hear. With the +RW I can
edit the dvd exactly how I want then copy it onto a +R disc in my computer.
I've sent a bunch of 'em to alot of people with all kinds of different dvd
players with absolutely no compatibilty problems.

[zorankarapancev]

OldeMan,

I agree with you…this is what I said two years ago:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=668253&highlight=#668253

[gshelley61]

Yes, I agree there is no perfect DVD recorder so far. They all have their strong and weak points, with a few quirks thrown in to boot. Plus, it is very much an "eye of the beholder" thing... personal tastes, individual perceptions and the actual tasks the recorder will mainly be used for all influence opinions on which one might be the best choice for you.

[ejai]

Yes, I agree there is no perfect DVD recorder so far. They all have their strong and weak points, with a few quirks thrown in to boot. Plus, it is very much an "eye of the beholder" thing... personal tastes, individual perceptions and the actual tasks the recorder will mainly be used for all influence opinions on which one might be the best choice for you.

I'm in full agreeance. I know I'm not the only one who has noticed that the new Panasonic ES10 records with a very strong redish tone. The skin tones are more pinkish than normal. Has anyone else noticed this and if so does it bother you? Just curious

[KeepItSimple]

I haven't noticed any red tint on the ES10. The green tint is gone like I was seeing on the E50 and E60. I'm so glad.