New VCD Format Holds up to 130 Minutes on 1 CD (lossless)

[fozzieb]

OK this might have been answered already.

I used the cvcd templete (nice) it plays in my standalone unit, but the sound is chopy (it is ok on pc) any ideas?

(video is ok)

Cheers.

[vitualis]

Let me reiterate the few points of good sense that people have mentioned before:

1. Any deviation of VCD standards (i.e., video still based on MPEG-1) has been conventionally been called XVCD. It doesn't matter if the bitrates gone up or down or VBR, etc. It is ALL XVCD.
2. XVCD = "eXtended VCD" = "non-compliant VCD"
3. Thus XVCDs are not guaranteed on playing properly on any VCD player and in no way have the same compatibility as standard compliant VCDs.
4. For 130min on one disc, you need an average bitrate of about half that of a standard VCD. I can safely say that it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to do this and have the video and audio quality equivalent to a standard VCD (and pretty much impossible for DVD quality).
5. All variations of XVCDs being tweaks of the VCD specs, it if quite possible and even likely that two people can independently come up with the same thing. Talk of "theft" is uncalled for.

@fozzieb,

It is an XVCD. It may not work properly on your player. You could try using an audio bitrate at the standard 224 kbit/s to see if that helps.

Regards.

[VCDsMakeMoney]

Ive finnally done the testing with Cvcd,and with the current template settings you CANNOT fit 130min on a cd! I encoded to CVCD with Final Fantasy.The movie is 1:32 (1:40 with credits)long. Which translates to 1.3-1.5 ish GB VCD.CVCD = 946MB,but still gave very good,VCD LIKE QUALITY (not DVD as other's have misqouted). Which as you can see DOES NOT Fit on a 80min/700MB cd. To make the movie fit I had to go down another 100kbits with the final result being 794MB.The quality suffered a small,but still noticeble drop in video.

So what im saying is,CVCD..tweaked alittle bit more CAN be able to put a movie on a 80min cd.But DOES NOT offer what it claims to offer (130min on 1 80min cd).



_________________
Obey Your Thirst,Sprite!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VCDsMakeMoney on 2001-12-18 03:11:36 ]</font>

[fozzieb]

What you are saying is true, but for those exact settings they have been called cvcd to make it easier for people to know what settings to use, xvcd has hundreds of different settings (including those of cvcd) this makes it easier to talk about and to understand.

NOW GIVE IT A REST

and lets get on with the encoding OK

Cheers.

[SatStorm]

Yeah, that conversation is pointless...
You can create a template and call it whatever you want. That don't make it standard...
Only VCD, SVCD and CVD (HVCD) are standards. (CVD only for China, but China are billions...) All the other formats are -X-

The point is to make media happy for them and playable to your standalone, and your friends standalone...
Also keep a hope for future compatibility...

[Latexxx]

Don't mess vcdsp.com's CVCD with Chaoji VCD because they are completely different!

[Graham Meredith]

What is Chaoji VCD?

Graham

[Dhruv]

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On 2001-12-18 03:08:54, VCDsMakeMoney wrote:
Ive finnally done the testing with Cvcd,and with the current template settings you CANNOT fit 130min on a cd! I encoded to CVCD with Final Fantasy.The movie is 1:32 (1:40 with credits)long. Which translates to 1.3-1.5 ish GB VCD.CVCD = 946MB

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VCDsMakeMoney on 2001-12-18 03:11:36 ]</font>
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So CVCD holds 946 mbs. I highly doubt you could fit 130 minutes onto 1 cd!What about SeVCD? How many mbs does that hold?

[Sefy]

That would depend on the movie, typicaly it would be around 95min of movie on a 80min CDR, but a movie like Bridget Jone's Diary which is 115min (1 hour and 45min) got compressed WAY down to 795mb! (I was personaly shocked!) without tempering with any of the default settings I used (VBR 1150/Audio 224k).

[Latexxx]

The only REAL standards are:
1. VCD (Video CD) MPEG1 @ cbr 1150
2. SVCD (Super Video CD) MPEG2 cbr or vbr maximum total bitrate 2500
3. CVCD (Chaoji VCD) wich is the ancestor of SVCD. Don't mess this with vcdsp's CVCD which is only a XVCD variant.

All other MPEG1 CD's are NON standard XVCD's and MPEG2 discs are XSVCD's.

[bbb]

SVCD standard actually has a video bitrate of 2600 and audio bitrate of 224k, total 2824.

[Macros746]

I have been floating around here for almost a year now and I can say, authoritatively, that Sefy DID NOT steal anything. I was a newbie then and read pretty much everything that was posted (who am I kidding I still read 75% I always read all of Sefy's posts because it was obvious that he knew what he was doing and, therefore, I knew I could learn a lot from his posts. I remember quite well when he was experimenting with VBR and XSVCD with lower bitrates as he kept up a RUNNING COMMMENTARY of his experiments. I also might point out that, while similar, his template IS different...therefore just making in one of many XVCD templates out there. The only reason I felt the need to post this is that, as one of the senior posters these days with a specialty in AIW cards, I love the feeling of helping and being helped and the sense of community on this board. I don't mind a little friendly flaming but the tone of much of this topic is really off-putting. Disagree....debate.....but the minute you actually attack someone all that is useful goes out the window. I know I'm preaching to the choir here but I just thought I'd toss in my two cents.

Macros

[Bluez]

macros, you are my hero!

[babybull10]

The template supplied is for pal, is there a NTSC version or is that basically the one Sefy supplied in the tools section? I'm converting from vhs using Ati AIW capture card and want the best template I can get (obviously that's debatable!). I've been capturingin mpeg2 and converting with tmpgenc. Is there a better way????
I am about to start converting Divx to xvcd. I've read the guides but wondered if anyone had a few more helpful hints. Thanks Babybull

[Macros746]

Babybull,
I have the AIW and have been capturing using VirtualDub or AVI_IO and the MJEG or Huffy codecs with great success. I know that capturing directly to MPEG2 is very tempting because, especially at higher bit rates, it can look very good. But editing in MPEG2 (cutting out commercials) is absolutely a nightmare whereas, having captured to AVI in VirtualDub, it is literally the work of five minutes. So, in brief, the best way is
1. capture to lossless codec at a resolution of 320 x 480...if you want a detailed explaination of why I'll post a URL (you can find the above mentioned in the tools section...they require alot of HD space but are well worth it. I recommend MJEG set to 1
2. Edit the captured .avi in VirtualDub (be sure you are using a spill drive so you don't bump into the 4 gig limit)
3. Apply the filters you want ( I usually go with sharpen and resize (320 x 240) and a little bit of temporal smoothing)
4. Frameserve to TMPGenc, pick your template, hit encode and go to sleep.

I think this is the best method and, when you consider the quick editing of VD, I think it is also the fastest. If you have any questions feel free to email.

Bluez....thanks

Macros

[Macros746]

Sorry Babybull,
That was meant to read 'MJEG set to 18' I was a victim of the smily icons ......


Macros

[SatStorm]

@ Latexx
Chaoji VCD is also called CVD (china Video Disk) and HDVCD...
The resolution is 352 X 576 for PAL and 352 X 480 for NTSC
It is like SVCD
All SVCD compatibles, are also compatible with CVD

CVCD is XVCD

[martina]

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On 2001-12-15 19:17:51, pepehdez wrote:
I've crated a couple so far, out of movie trailers. They are very good, they play on my Apex AD600A and my PC.

Still I Can't open avisynth files with TMPGEnc. Please Help.

I Have the CVCD TMPGEnc Template, ask me if you want it.

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Could you sent it to me??? martin.arredondo@riag.com....Thanks in advance......

[JHebert]

For God's sake people hasn't this gone on long enough?

If you must have so-called "CVCD" or whatever just download Sefy's templates and change the audio to 128Kbs so we can put this thread out of its misery.

[dumwaldo]

Spainclaimfortruth

you are being very rude to one of the most respected members of this forum. if you knew anything about this site you would know that sefy is a very selfless individual. NO he should not chance the name of his template to CVCD because as he stated before and you ignored his template provides higher quality than CVCD. now you own the man an appology. be a man and say you are sorry.

to be sure you are getting the point i translated it...
usted está siendo muy grosero a uno de los miembros respetados de este foro. si usted supiera cualquier cosa sobre este sitio usted sabría que sefy es un individuo muy selfless. NINGÚN él no debe ocasión el nombre de su modelo a CVCD porque como él indicó antes y usted no hizo caso de su modelo ahora le proporciona más de alta calidad que CVCD. poseer al hombre un appology. sea un hombre y diga que usted está apesadumbrado.

now with regards to CVCD i would like to point out that that CVCD itself was STOLEN from the VCD standard so to claim that sefy stole what was already stolen is rediculous. even is sefy did get the idea from CVCD, which i am sure he didn't, the fact that he improved on it to make a higher quality template would give him the right to claim it as SeVCD the same way the CVCD claimed its own name when it riped off the standard VCD template.

now i guess i may have done something wrong so i am going to try again but yesterday i encoded 'darkside of the rainbow' to CVCD using the template posted by Dhruv. it took 5-1/2 hours to encode 1:42 (102 minutes) and the end result was a file over 900 meg in size. basically unusable.

today i will try the template that Epi posted and see how that turns out. then i will try SeVCD and let you all know how that turned out

[Sefy]

I Believe I was decent enough to give Spainclaimfortruth plenty of time to apologise, so you do not even have any self respect, and therefor I will no longer give you the respect you did not show me.

Regarding the naming of my Templates, for those who are curious enough, here is the reason of each name:
SxVCD = VideoCD using MPEG2 VBR compression, because it cannot be burned as VideoCD (MPEG2) and is burned as Non-Standard SVCD I believe it would be better to assosicat it with SVCD instead.
and I can't really call it XSVCD, cause all those are usually for INCREASING the quality to higher then SVCD, and my SxVCD is using VCD quality, and is not intented to compete with the SuperVCD or XSVCD Templates.

SeVCD = VideoCD using MPEG1 VBR compression, actually I was gonna do this one before the SxVCD, but I was told at the time that it is not going to work, so I quit it, then my curiasity got the better of me and I tried anyway, the first ones to test it I believe were Adam/Baldrick and Spidey and TibrO I think, they helped me test it and confirm that doing a VideoCD with VBR is possible.

Spainclaimfortruth, if you had any brains and checked before insulting and tarnishing my reputation without just cause, you would take a look at my first post "90min CD on a 80min CD" you would have known i've always kept anyone updated with whatever I was doing, so I did NOT steal anything from your lousy CVCD which gives lower Video and Audio quality then even the simple VCD.

[Mr_Green_Jean]

Is this CVCD code for PAL...is there a code for NTSC? Somebody said to go to BestBuy for 90min CD.. I went there, but couldn't find them. Point me to the right place please!

[branch]

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On 2001-12-16 19:41:49, kwag wrote:

DO IT. Make a 15 second mpeg at 23.97 and another 15 second at 29.97. Of course frameserving the same amount of frames at the corresponding rates.

If you can't see that the files are different size, go back to school!.
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Right I just tried that encoding a bit (50 secs)

When the framerate is set at 23.97 the file size is 8.728.580 bytes,
When the framerate is set at 29.97 the file size is 8.708.100 bytes.

Same clip, same frameserv, same settings apart from the framerate, so it does seem that framerate influences the file size.

[branch]

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On 2001-12-16 20:32:02, Kdiddy wrote:
Again, since you seem to ignore the fact that that your ORGINAL POST stated "DVD quality". The means DVD specs, which for the last time IS mpeg2 >/= 5mbps @ 720x480.
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Actually it doesn't mean that to most people. A techinican might have a long list of things that must be satisfied before he'll caled it "DVD quality" but to 99% of the planet, its just what they see on the screen. If it looks great, they say "its DVD quality" because it seemed to them to be as good as the DVD they bought last week. What it technically is, is not relevant to them. And probably not to the original poster, it looked great to him, it looked like "DVD quality", and if it looks good most of us don't really care that the technicalities are.

[Dave Knowles]

Hi,
Every time that I try and use one of the templates I get the message "Illegal Stream Format" could anyone tell me where I am going wrong.

[Kdiddy]

"Right I just tried that encoding a bit (50 secs)
When the framerate is set at 23.97 the file size is 8.728.580 bytes,
When the framerate is set at 29.97 the file size is 8.708.100 bytes."

Well first, 50 secs is far from enough for testing purposes, you try at least a 30 min clip, secondly, 20KB is bascially the same size, when you are talking about files being 750+ MB...ok maybe not down to the byte..since you seem to "don't really care that the technicalities are"....He was thinking that you would get a 750 MB to a say 595 MB difference in size, which U won't...

" If it looks great, they say "its DVD quality" because it seemed to them to be as good as the DVD they bought last week."

Yes, quality is purely subjective matter as I have stated MANY times. However, there comes a point to where it is no longer subjective in certain conditions. One of those conditions being "mpeg1 w/ 720x480 @ <2mpbs". So I will tell you the same as I told him. If YOU or HE sees "DVD quality" at those conditions I have some beautiful beachfront property in the middle of Kansas I want you to take a "look" at as well. If you had READ the whole post, you would see where he plainly states "Yes you will notice something on high speed scenes," & "seeing some high speed scenes a little blurred". Well to me, and im sure many others will agree as they already have, that is NOT DVD quality because a DVD does NOT do that. So please if you nothing better to add to a dead arguement that even the original poster has given up on because he knows how fa off base he is, just leave it alone.

Footnote: I think we should have never even expected an apology from that so called vcdsp.com representative. Much like Kwag, Im sure he has seen the fallacies in his statements and chooses not return. I would suggest a closing lock on this topic.

[martymizah]

hey all...

im not active on this conversion forum...more on the authoring forum...

anyway....all i do right now is vcd...

mpg1....regular templates that come with TMPG enc

this is what im thinking


i like them...cant really complain...never really saw a huge difference with mpg2.

i did do an SeVCD, but ran into trouble when i put chapters in it, so im afraid the quality was reduced.

what i am lookin for is this


NTSC template. That will be better than a VCD, and fit just about the same amount of DATA. I dont mind 2 cd's for a movie. I cant comprehend how you can actually encode something smaller and have it better quality...although i know you can

i dont get technical with vbr, or whatever the hell everyone is talkin about...but i have done many movies. like i said, conversion is not my topic, cuz it gets too technical.

so whats up? whos gonna give me THE guide. THE tmpg template that will hook me up with a Standalone compatible nice vcd 2.0, or Svcd...or hell maybe if SeVCD is the best...tell me

please...answer me in english...not your technical jargon

im workin with NTSC like i said


cmon members....step up to tha plate

[Faceman101]

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On 2001-12-17 07:06:49, Sefy wrote: ...calling me a thief is rather high charge...
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I'll call you a thief....a thief of my heart.

Kdiddy knows his stuff and this is the first time I've seen him be so stern. This CVCD isn't really a big deal, if you really want to fit 130min on a cd you are going to loose quality. End of story.

P.S. "DVD quality" is only DVD, nothing less.

[Sefy]

Dave Knowles, you must have used the Browse option or the File Load option in TMPGEnc, what you do is use the Load button on the lower right corner, that is where you use to load the Templates.

[fozzieb]

Would you lot shut the hell up,

Who gives a damn what they call it Xvcd, Cvcd or any o
other crap. If you lot spent as much time helping each other rather than bitching then we might actualy make some progress with encoding tecniques.

Would who ever runs this forum please put an end to this thred once and for all.

Fozzieb

P.S

Sorry if i upset anyone.