Pirate, Terrorist, or Spawn Of Satan?

[leebo]

The brainwashing continues. They failed to convince the public that set painters and carpenters receive a percent of the gross, now they're trying to sell us this crap.

Terrorist link to copyright piracy alleged
Published: May 27, 2005, 6:34 AM PDT
By Declan McCullagh
Staff Writer, CNET News.com


Counterfeit DVDs and cigarettes may be funding terrorists.

That's what the Senate Homeland Security committee heard Wednesday from John Stedman, a lieutenant in the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department who's responsible for an eight-person team of intellectual property (IPR) investigators.

"Some associates of terrorist groups may be involved in IPR crime," Stedman said. "During the course of our investigations, we have encountered suspects who have shown great affinity for Hezbollah and its leadership."

Even though Stedman's evidence is circumstantial, his testimony comes as Congress is expected to consider new copyright legislation this year. An invocation of terrorism, the trump card of modern American politics, could ease the passage of the next major expansion of copyright powers.

Steadman said he saw Hezbollah flags and photographs of the group's leader in homes that he raided, coupled with anti-Israel sentiments on the part of those arrested.

But another witness, Kris Buckner, the president of a private investigation firm that looks into intellectual property violations, said: "I am also frequently asked if terrorist groups profit from the sale of counterfeit goods. I do not know the answer to that question." Buckner has, however, heard "subjects make anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish statements" on raids.

[AlecWest]

"Some associates of terrorist groups may be involved in IPR crime," Stedman said.

... and therefore, all pirates are terrorists (snarf).

[Xylob the Destroyer]

yes, all media "pirates" are terrorists!
additionally, although the vast majority of marijuana bought/sold in the United States is grown by Americans in Kansas, Nebraska, Texas, Wyoming, & Colorado, all pot smokers are supporting terrorists.
I know this is true because TV said so.

[canadateck]

I know this is true because TV said so.

Lmao

[pbhalerao]

There is a close nexus between organised crime and terrorism. IPR piracy is one of the "verticals" in the organised crime business. The others are drugs, kidnapping and extortion, money laundering, bootlegging, illegal betting/gambling, etc.

Ultimately black/illegal money is used to fund terrorism. It is in the interest of the crime boses to cause anarchy - because when anarchy exists that crime will thrive.

India is one country that is deeply affected by terrorism. We have been so, much before 9/11 shook the world and woke it up. Before that the attitude was always "that does not concern us". A lot of my friends exchange currency in the black market because "they" gives a better exchange rate that the banks - I have never done this. I try to make people see the true side.

[AlecWest]

There is a close nexus between organised crime and terrorism.

I think there are some cases where this is true but I don't think it's the rule. Even Stedman, in the article, was careful to use the "some" and "may" disclaimer words. It's dangerous to deal in absolutes. Just because some crime may have terrorist linkage doesn't mean ALL crime does. Crime is crime and has been around much longer than terrorism. Making ill-gotten gains does not automatically mean there's an "agenda" behind the activity ... other than the making of ill-gotten gains.

It is in the interest of the crime boses to cause anarchy - because when anarchy exists that crime will thrive.

On the contrary, it's in the interest of crime-bosses to make sure strong governments are in place with strong laws. People will do what people will do, regardless of laws ... and the more dangerous the activity, the higher the profit potential.

[pbhalerao]

It is in the interest of the crime boses to cause anarchy - because when anarchy exists that crime will thrive.

On the contrary, it's in the interest of crime-bosses to make sure strong governments are in place with strong laws. People will do what people will do, regardless of laws ... and the more dangerous the activity, the higher the profit potential.

Look what happened in Russia? There was a strong government in Russia during communist times (terrible and anti-democratic perhaps, but strong all the same) and there was hardly any crime. Look at the state now. I am not advocating communism but just making a point.

[AlecWest]

Look what happened in Russia? There was a strong government in Russia during communist times (terrible and anti-democratic perhaps, but strong all the same) and there was hardly any crime. Look at the state now. I am not advocating communism but just making a point.

That's one of the "benefits" of communism (and I'm not advocating it either). When everyone is supposed to have equal access to goods and services, having more-than-equal access stands out and would raise suspicion. Also, when you think of all the lines of people waiting for the "chance" to acquire scarce goods in the Soviet Union, it's clear that you have to have something to steal before you can steal it. There was a lot of self-policing during Soviet times, too ... as I'm certain people who tried to "cut in" in a line found out quickly.

Putin's government is strong, too ... with strong laws. And the Russian Mafia wouldn't have it any other way.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

step lightly, political discussion is bound to get this thread locked

remember that we're talking about how black market products are considered by some to be funding international terrorism

I'm sure that to a certain extent, this is true.
but it's such a black & white generalized theorom........
here's an example: I'm a fan of Transformers -- the toys & cartoons from the '80's.
Some of the original toys from almost 20 years ago are quite expensive and rather hard to come by, especially in good condition.
some "knock-offs" can be found at flea markets and even on eBay - they're brand new and often times identical to the original, but they're not the real thing. they're made by any number of random companies spread throughout Asia. technically, they are black market products

am I supporting terrorists by buying them????
seriously now, am I?
really?
I doubt it.

[AlecWest]

step lightly, political discussion is bound to get this thread locked

Well ... it's more "economic" than "political." Crime has always flourished more in an active marketplace than in a stagnant one.

[Xylob the Destroyer]

indeed, this can be said of any business
the fact of the matter is: crime is a business.

[leebo]

Look what happened in Russia? There was a strong government in Russia during communist times (terrible and anti-democratic perhaps, but strong all the same) and there was hardly any crime.

You're talking about a time and place where nothing was printed or aired unless the government approved it? How do you know there was no crime? Oh, because thats what Russa said!

U-huh.

[lordsmurf]

step lightly, political discussion is bound to get this thread locked

[lumis]

i remember when they were running those anti-pot commercials saying that marijuana supports terrorism.. and it had teenagers saying stuff like "i killed a judge", "i murdered a family of four", "i bought 20 AK-47's", "i blew up a bus", "its my body".. all because they smoked a little reefer..

i guess the message it was sending was not to smoke weed.. the message i got was to be a patriotic american & grow it yourself..

[pbhalerao]

step lightly, political discussion is bound to get this thread locked

remember that we're talking about how black market products are considered by some to be funding international terrorism

I'm sure that to a certain extent, this is true.
but it's such a black & white generalized theorom........
here's an example: I'm a fan of Transformers -- the toys & cartoons from the '80's.
Some of the original toys from almost 20 years ago are quite expensive and rather hard to come by, especially in good condition.
some "knock-offs" can be found at flea markets and even on eBay - they're brand new and often times identical to the original, but they're not the real thing. they're made by any number of random companies spread throughout Asia. technically, they are black market products

am I supporting terrorists by buying them????
seriously now, am I?
really?
I doubt it.

Agreed. That kind of black market DOES NOT fund big crimes like terrorism. It is only when it gets organised into big business that things can go anywhere.

Also agreed that not all organised crime will fund terrorism.

Look what happened in Russia? There was a strong government in Russia during communist times (terrible and anti-democratic perhaps, but strong all the same) and there was hardly any crime.

You're talking about a time and place where nothing was printed or aired unless the government approved it? How do you know there was no crime? Oh, because thats what Russa said!

U-huh.

Umm. My mistake. I should not have said "no crime" - that is not possible. But it is true that there was much less crime then than nowadays. I say this because many people who have visited the old and new Russia (neutral people) have said so.

But let us stay away from politics.

Back on terrorism - to quote the cliche "they are terrorists for one side and freedom fighters for the other". If I start quoting examples here, the thread might turn political, religious and what not - so I shall refrain; but you all will understand what I mean. But no amount of justification can condone the killing of innocent people. Terrorists always quote - "the end justifies the means" and there will always be "casualties" in a war. This is a pack of lies. True freedom fighters will never allow killing of the innocent. I can quote some examples from the Indian freedom struggle here which essentially was a non-viloent one.

If we make a conscious decision to not promote activities that might be funding terrorism, then it will be the right way forward.

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

If we make a conscious decision to not promote activities that might be funding terrorism, then it will be the right way forward.

That is the $64,000 question my friend. The thing is HOW could you know for sure that the peanut store at the mall isn't owned by a terrorist that uses the money you just gave him to build bombs?. If the FBI can't figure out all these guys, I'm sure we won't either. The thing is that several organizarions try to mix misleading information with some thruth in order to combat piracy on the side. Ex: Pirates are terrorists, therefore, if you buy that bootleg copy of name your favorite movie here, you are supporting terrorism, ergo, you are a terrorist too.

Back to your statement, I think nobody here would buy anything that support terrorism anywhere in the world, but as I said before... how can you identify these individuals?. As Xylob said, I don't think buying that vintage transformer or generic replacement ink cartridges for my R200 from any business retailer in Hong Kong is supporting terrorism... or is it?. You can't know for sure, but I'm inclined to think that it's not.

[leebo]

Look, I started this thread to point out that the RIAA and MPAA are at it again, manipulating the govt. into protecting their millions. For me it's not a question of wether terrorists are making illeagle copies, but the repulsive ways the RIAA and MPAA are using to protect their wealth.

I don't believe the ads they were playing in the theaters saying that for each downloaded movie, a carpenter looses earnings. Like I said, last I heard carpenters didn't receive points!

As for Bruce Willis and Arnie, I wont shed a tear for them either. But the REAL individuals who stand to loose money are the executives making the deals from their Jag-U-wires.

Their lies and scare tactics (suing college kids and scoccer moms) are shamefull. Here in the US, in the post offices (a govt. entity run like a private business), there are signs saying that they have the right to open and search any parcel marked as media (i.e. videos and CD's) to search for copyright infrigment. Since when does the post office work for the record and film companies (using tax dollars, btw)???

What a deal they (RIAA and MPAA) have going, don't you think?

[EddyH]

I do find it hard to believe that my mate working at the bar who lets us have copies of the films he rents for the price of the DVDR and a beer has any kind of terrorist link. So far as i can tell he uses it to pay the rent.
I'd be a bit more wary about buying them from some bloke down the pub who also smuggles cigarettes, because if he goes down in a sting, it might be when you're there.