The Empire Strikes Back!

[EvilWizardGlick]

EvilWizardGlick, just to clarify the MPAA didn't do anything to these guys the government did.

Also I'm certain that the RIAA/MPAA are not trying to stop filesharing, even illegal filesharing, in the same sense that the DEA is not trying to stop illegal drug use/trafficking. Its not about eradication its about control.

You should take that act to the stage. That is some of the funniest material I have read in a while.
Sure the RIAA/MPAA were not involved, not even behind the scenes. Sure it is about "control". The DEA is so successful that the RIAA/MPAA are using them as a model.
Meanwhile drugs are at their cheapest in the US.
Including bad drugs like herion and meth.
I can see the victory in the War on p2p just over the horizon.
Tell some more funny stuff, I could use a laugh today.

[EvilWizardGlick]

Actually you just neglected to read my post in context. I was referring to eradication of the problem, not eradication of any given illicit drug seized.

If you look at the DEA's eradication policies they refer to their policy of scouting out drugs during production and PHYSICALLY destroying them. It does not mean they are trying to wipe illicit drugs off the face of the planet entirely. Sure it'd be nice from their standpoint, but its just accepted that its impossible.

My point is that none of these organizations are trying to eliminate the problem, only control it. The fact that copyright infringement and drug use can't be stopped doesn't mean you shouldn't still police it. No kind of illicit activity can ever be stopped entirely.

So once again, its not about eradication (solving the problem entirely) its about control (do what you can to limit it.)

EvilWizardGlick suggested that its futile to go after illegal filesharing since it will always be a problem. I countered that the point is to police the activity so as to control it, fully acknowledging that the problem will never be eradicated. I do not think its naive or false to compare this to drug policing.

Man you are killing me. The funny is gushing out today.
Now do one about women getting equal pay. Or how about blacks and Hispanics not being racially profiled.
And do one about Bush being the best genius president ever.
I see a challenge to Bill Maher in your future.

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning.
/ Moderator lordsmurf

[shelbyGT]

EvilWizardGlick... you are just coming across as an idiotic child right now. I think I hear a pin drop...

[lordsmurf]

Well, yet another topic has drifted off and become worthless.

[adam]

Hey Lordsmurf let's let this one play out a bit...if you don't mind. I think we can keep it civil since EvilWizardGlick is gone.

This is kinda big news. This is the first time the Fed. Govt. has really done this type of operation.

[lordsmurf]

True.

[limpy]

Well I saw a sample of the workprint when it came out and it wasn't that great. It had 2 counters across the top. Really annoying. Someone else released a version later on with the counters blurred out. The video was slightly blocky but the colors were not bad.

I don't know who would want a workprint of a movie like this as it might not be complete. Plus this is the type of movie I need to see at the theater. The theater near me has a DLP projector so I got to watch this in digital. Looks so much better. Not trying to rub it in :P

Oh and I actually read that the MPAA was involved and actually gave the FBI some if not most of the evidence.

Strange thing is from what I understand the server was in Europe, I think the Netherlands, so how did they shut it down?

[adam]

The US government can still get jurisdiction over a site owner even if their infringing site runs off a foreign server. There's lots of different ways. They probably had a substantial number of "customers" in the US.

Even if the US govt. didn't go after them for criminal charges the MPAA still could have gotten the site shutdown because there is an international board called ICAAN which governs infringing websites.

I think those people who download this kind of crap just do so for bragging rights. Its so they can have something they're not supposed to, which nobody else has. They'll download the "proper" screener later on, then the telecine, then the DVDrip and maybe then they'll actually watch the movie. Its not about watching the movies its about being in the scene. Such a stupid reason to go to jail over.

[DereX888]

Most of you people say here is true. Especially with movie like Star Wars, there are NO excuses to not see it at the movies, ditto.
But this should not be any reason to send FBI after accused persons (NOT the 'pirates' or 'criminals' etc - remember: innocent UNTIL PROVEN guilty).
I dont know about you, but I am double-pissed whenever I read all these crappy statements coming from MPAA. Reading their latest press release it seems that the main reason to shutdown elitetorrents was the fact that they had SW III copy few hours before its official premiere. Like they didn't have any other copyrighted materials before? Like the other movies were simply 'not worthy' FBI's protection? Hello! FBI is not, or should not be, personal private investigators for George Lucas & co.!
Another BS is the way they always estimate their 'losses'.
Say whatever you want, but its obvious that 99% of those who did downloaded the movie of SW III and still didn't go to see it in theaters - they would NOT have go to theater to see it anyway, ever. So where is the loss? Just check out gross for the opening weekend of SW III. The numbers are SCREAMING! And it hit record viewerships in spite of MPAA's claims of tens of thousands illegally distributed copies!

As adam said - many of those downloading movies get the workprint, then proper screener, then whatever another version - and in the end they also will buy the DVD, and many will the next 'extended edition' dvd, and later some will still get the 'superbit EE' dvd too. Because theyre fans. Or collectors. They want to have *every* possible version of the movie.
Don't believe me?
Check out the boxoffice for all three consecutive Lord of the Rings movies. Each one numbers went through the roof for weeks, and in a same time eacj one was available on internet in every possible version - CAM VCD, TS SVCD, even MPAA's own Oscar DVD screeners too were distributed over the web. Yet it did NOT hurt its boxoffice at all. I dare to say it even helped to draw MORE viewers to theaters. Thats not all. When DVDs came out - each one was available on the web in dvd-rip DivX and DVDR versions for weeks before official releae date. And? Yes, they still sold great. Why?
Because movies were 'good' and people were willing to pony up the dough for FS, WS, and EE versions! (no I dont like any of LOTR movies much, but most of people apparently do).
Again - tens of thousands illegal copies did not hurt their sale at all.

Now lets imagine that I have downloaded LOTR from the web, and I went to theater to see it, then I downloaded "dvdrip" version and I still bought original DVD box-set in the end - is anyone still going to call me a 'pirate'? :O

Yes, there is other side to it too.
Anyone remember flick called "Driven"? Friend of mine had on a campus very fast internet connection, he got excellent illegal copy of it, complete with AC3 sound, off the web. We watch it. The movie completely sucked. We havent seen even half of this utter crap when we switched to porn most likely But we didnt save those few bucks that - according to MPAA - we would have otherwise spent on this piece of crap in theater, no. We still went to theater and saw something else instead (dont remember now what, but it doesnt matter). Whats the moral of this story? Simple: they didn't loose any money, they (as MPAA) actually *earned* our money spent on another movie thanks to the illegal downloading. How? Because had we not watch this illegal copy on the campus and didn't knew firsthand how bad is this movie and went to see it in theaters instead, we would have most likely quit and asked for refund at the theater (yes we students do such things, we value the dollar in our pocket). So there wouldn't be ANY income for MPAA or any of its members at all in such situation.

Sometimes I think MPAA is most worry about all those crappy flicks that constitute some 95% of hollywood's movie productions, not "Star Wars" etc blockbusters. The blockbusters always do well, regardless of millions of illegal copies on the web. Star Wars, LOTR etc have giant loyal fan base.
Its the sucky crappy flicks that are hurt the most by 'illegal downloading', nothing else. But I have no problem if the idiots behind such crap as "Driven", "Superbabies Supergeniuses" (or whatever) got hurt and loose profit. For movie consumers there is no other legal way to check the product theyre buying. It is the only way to 'test-drive' the product before paying. You won't get refund in theater if you stay till the end of the movie. You can't get refund at the store if the DVD you bought had nothing in common with its advertisement/trailer you saw and it was lame duck. Think of it. Most of movie production is crap, almost everyone agrees. Yet you cant demand full admission fare refund. You cant demand full refund for opened DVD. They want you to be framed in as many bad purchases as they can frame you for. Thats the way MPAA and its members make business - false advertising with no refund/no exchange policy. Its the most crooked business from all of them (well, except for the lawyers ofcourse).

EDIT:
I am against piracy. But by piracy I understand the (probably) organized crime groups pressing thousands of copies of illegal DVDs - and not the John Does of the web that MPAA is after.
Every major city in US have "ponies" selling illegal DVDs of movies still in theaters for $4-5 apiece on street corners. So far NYC (Manhattan/Chinatown and Little Italy areas) have the most of them I saw, but LA is probably second. These are the real, THE real pirates. They have network(s) of tens if not hundreds of 'ponies' selling DVDs on major intersections. The cops just pass by them daily. The undercover FBI agents must pass by them daily. F***ing President of Idiocy Jack Valenti must passed by them everyday as well, because you can literally find these people in every major US city. And no one see them? WTF is going on Im asking? They go after "elitetorrents" or "tv episodes swapping sites" half the world away, but they don't see whats going on on their backyard? Such amounts of illegal discs must arrive by truckloads, or actually by boatloads, and I dont mean those little chinese wooden boats...
These people and places operate there for years. If I can spot them so easily, why FBI or MPAA can't?
Its all bullsh*t again.

[satviewer2000]

Lucas should just release the DVD after the movie has been in the theatres for a couple of weeks. Since anyone wanting the copy of it likely has already downloaded it, why not sell the high quality DVD to those who would buy it. I would buy the DVD if it were released tomorrow.

[computerchuck]

I said the same thing the other day to my brother who told me about starwars on the net. Play in theatre for a month, dvd, ppv-HD, and hbo-hd. Or keep it like it is now- Theatre for a couple of hours, internet, flea market, timepasses by, dvd, ppv, and hbo.

Do you think Lucas will do a episode III.V (3.5)? I mean we see the twins being born, then all of a sudden they are attacking his daughter in episode IV. That's a huge gap to fill in. Maybe a straight to video release -kinda like the ewok dvds.

[impmon2]

A possibility as there's about 20 years between Episode 3 and 4. But what's to cover? Luke grows up completely unaware of his father until the driods showed up. Leia had more action in her life but it was close to before the start of episode 4.

FWIW the Ewok movies were released a bit after RotJ so they are quite old.

[Duchess]

With all this screaming about piracy, according to todays New York Times :

Last year Americans spent an average of 78 hours watching videos and DVD's, a 53 percent increase since 2000, according to a study by the Motion Picture Association of America, the film industry's trade group. DVD sales and rentals soared 676.5 percent during the same period, and 60 percent of all homes with a television set now also have a DVD player. DVD sales and rentals alone were about $21 billion, according to the Digital Entertainment Group.

So they get an increase of 676.5% and they still aren't satisfied. I guess we just have a generation of vampires who love drinking blood and can't get enough to abate their craving.

[AlecWest]

There's a lot of brouhaha over all this and, amid all these closures and arrest scares and torrent topplings, something's missing ... THE REAL PIRATE!!!

According to every news report I've read, this HAD to be an inside job ... perhaps a disgruntled LucasArts employee. What in the heck are the FBI, the Homeland Security Department, and George Lucas doing to try to find out who the originator of this workprint is? If it's a choice between hunting down and prosecuting the 16,000 people who downloaded this piece of crap and the person who made the download possible, I think it would be better to go after the person who made the download possible. Not that they aren't ... but I sure as heck don't see much about that part of the investigation in the media.

[ROF]

Scapegoating is what these people are all doing. Blaming someone else is better than looking at yourself or your own corporation.

The real question is, did all this news about closure and arrests stem the flow of this movie or did it increase the amount of people looking online for this movie and other files being shared?

If the people doing the arresting actually thought about that question, I'd bet they'd reconsider their actions. But again, George Lucas is probably the one who posted this movie copy online originally. Why you ask? Free advertising. This thread, the hundreds of others like it, and all the ads in local newspapers, online news organizations top news coverage of these shutdowns and so on has put the name "Revenge of the Sith" on the retinas of every person with the ability to read and access to news.

[adam]

Well I'm sure the real originator of the leak will be tracked down eventually, but truthfully Star Wars really has nothing to do with this. They had about 17,800 other reasons to bust it up too.

Judging from the timeframe of all of this, I think its fairly obvious that the investigation was being conducted prior to the Star Wars leak. The website was going to be raided regardless. The journalist who wrote that CNN article just stuck the Star Wars aspect in there because 1) Star Wars is the biggest news in entertainment industry right now and 2) its shocking to people not in the know that such a presumably well guarded big release can be available for download.

If this raid had occurred closer to November than we would have been reading about the next Harry Potter being leaked. Its just marketing. Whenever the raid occurs they are going to mention the biggest movies at the box office at that time.

[DereX888]

Yes, I have to agree with adam again, the law enforcement ppl were waiting for star wars premiere day simply to maximize their press/publicity.
Thats another wrong doing in this case.

[impmon2]

But in any case, no matter how hard the law enforcement tries, some will still slip through anyway. Also had some of the torrent file used the new trackless version of the program, shutting down the web site wouldn't stop the illegal file shairing.

I have seen the screenshot of the movie on the internet and they are very much like DVD quality (one such screenshot here at http://img263.echo.cx/img263/9881/sw3am.png ) It does have the counter across the top but the quality otherwise are great. I wouldn't be surprised if this version is the most pirated version ending up in illegal DVD copies at street corners and other black market.

I hope whoever let that DVD go into public is arrested and I would think Lucas might want to consider releasing SW3 officially on DVD real soon (and real cheap) to try and cut down the number of leaked copies.

[AlecWest]

I have seen the screenshot of the movie on the internet and they are very much like DVD quality (one such screenshot here at http://img263.echo.cx/img263/9881/sw3am.png ). It does have the counter across the top but the quality otherwise are great.

Great??? Well, I guess that's a relative term. I told Yoda about this in PM but haven't said anything public yet. Now's as good a time as any. A friend gave me a DVD and asked me to take it home and watch it ... said I'd like it. Didn't know what it was until I got home. It was the Sith film being discussed. I did not make a copy of it for myself. But, I did watch it (and later gave it back to him). However, I also did something else ... I performed a brief analysis on the DVD.

First, it was burned to a DVD with a CMC (-R) media ID. According to LordSmurf's NoMoreCoasters.com site, that's considered 4th Class media (aka pathetic garbage). My friend did not download and burn this himself. He told me he got it from someone but wouldn't elaborate. I suspect he was approached (like others were) outside the theater where he saw the film. But only he knows for sure.

Secondly, when I looked at the burned surface, it was less than halfway burned (and this is a 2 hour 20 minute film). The VOB filesizes added together were a wee bit over 1.4 gigs. According to IFOedit, the film's burned dimensions were 352x480 (MPEG1). But, according to VirtualDubMPEG and TMPGenc Plus, the dimensions were 352x240 ... VCD quality. The MP2 audio, at 48/224, was slightly better than VCD quality ... but was overmodulated in certain parts (explosions, etc.).

Thirdly, the film overlapped itself in five places. The DVD, when loaded into DVDshrink, revealed (on re-author) that it consisted of 6 titles in 1 titleset. When it came to those five places, it was like the film went backwards for up to 20 seconds then continued. And here's the weird part. Each of those titles had 99 chapters (???).

Fourthly, and you'll notice this by looking at the PNG file mentioned earlier, this workprint was 4:3 ... with no proper aspect ratio assigned to it. Watching the film was like watching the reflection of characters/scenes in a carnival mirror ... the convex kind that makes people look skinny and tall.

When I gave it back to him, I told him that (A) I could have done a better job of authoring the DVD, and (B) that Lucas can and will do a better job of authoring it ... and that I'd much rather wait for HIS release than pay money out for the crappy (not GREAT) burnjob evident on that DVD.

[Nilfennasion]

First off the bat, in spite of SW making more than $150mil in around four or five days, the MPAA is still whining that films this year around May made 5 percent or whatever less than films in last May. It reminds me of a spoiled child who hasn't realised that you can't recreate a day exactly by following its events to the letter (a lesson I learned before I was of schooling age for crying out loud). The fact that outings to the theatre are costing so much that families with more than two children are now seeing it as prohibitively expensive could not possibly have anything to do with it, right? Not that the family market is the be all and end all, but when one market declines, so does the overall take. It's basic economics as destroyed by price-gouging for heaven's sake.

Second, Derex888 is right on the money. People are tired of being asked to pay steep, inflated prices for entertainment items, sight unseen, only to have them turn out to be abysmal. I keep saying it, and nobody seems to listen, but when the MP3 format found its way onto the Internet, the real reason the RIAA were so scared was because it meant they could no longer bait and switch us with a single that contained all the good songs on an album. Now, the B-sides and content they wish we couldn't look at without paying money for is plainly visible, and much of it is very ugly. It is not a coincidence that recording labels where consistent quality is expectation have seen a massive increase in business at the same time. I heard the first minute of the song The Dreadful Hours in MP3 and it utterly chilled me to the bone. When I bought the album of the same name, I got seventy minutes of the most memorable music I have ever heard in my life, which is no small feat. Yet the RIAA wants to blame MP3 traders for its marketing woes. What is wrong with this picture?

Lastly, the nail has been hit on the head again as to why pirates really don't represent a threat to the MPAA and its members. Having seen a lot of VCDs with sources questionable in legality (and even some that are legit), the "anything is good enough" attitude is in full swing there. Meanwhile, this is the exact opposite of the attitude that the enthusiasts who contributed to DVD-Video's early success. Nothing is good enough for them. In my case, I still have a major problem watching DVDs on anything other than a computer because of interlacing, but then, watching them on the computer limits my sound options, so I cannot win either way. But just because I no longer buy that many local DVDs anymore doesn't mean I don't buy them at all. I just buy the ones that are plainly the best value for money, which has invariably been foreign markets during the last eighteen months.

There ought to be laws against the kind of monopoly that the MPAA represents.

[DereX888]

First off the bat, in spite of SW making more than $150mil in around four or five days, the MPAA is still whining that films this year around May made 5 percent or whatever less than films in last May.

5% only?
Up until now there was no major blockbuster, and almost every 'average' movie released this year was much below usual level of hollywood's idiocy.
Did they jack up admission fees in USA again or something?

[Nilfennasion]

They only do it on a month-by-month. The previous four months, 5% was the least of their problems. But they were all chomping at the bit saying Star Wars will save them, and then it comes in... in spite of setting a four-day take-in record, the box office is still less than it was the same time last year. What that tells me is that they should stop comparing their take to other times and start comparing it to how much cost they run up.

[red lion]

That being said, there is something about the theatre environment that you can't duplicate at home.

Yes the ripoff prices of drinks\snacks especally here in uk i saw star wars movie at cinema over the weekend and drinks\snacks are a disgrace price wise..

[AlecWest]

That being said, there is something about the theatre environment that you can't duplicate at home.

Yes the ripoff prices of drinks\snacks especally here in uk i saw star wars movie at cinema over the weekend and drinks\snacks are a disgrace price wise..

It used to be that almost anyone could afford to go to NBA games (basketball). Now, even the "cheap" seats in the nosebleed sections of stadiums can go for as much as $50. Regular attendance has become a luxury for the upper middle-class (or richer). And slowly, regular attendance of films is approaching a similar level ... in large part due to the onerous demands put upon producers by "big talent."

But, don't blame the theaters for high drink/snack prices. The theater business isn't part of the entertainment industry. It's part of the fast-food industry. Except in rare cases (anymore), all money from ticket sales goes straight to Hollywood ... so they can afford to pay $40,000,000 to Pierce Brosnan to do one more Bond film. But the little guys who sell drinks and snacks and run the projectors? Their salaries come directly from snack sales. I'm surprised they aren't more expensive than they are. Brosnan may be expensive but the electricity and manpower to run the show isn't all that cheap either. And nowadays, the only theaters that enjoy at least a "margin" of profit from ticket sales are the "community" theaters that show 2nd-run or 3rd-run movies that have already seen their blockbuster days come and go (and are usually already available on home video).

[AlecWest]

Yes, I have to agree with adam again, the law enforcement ppl were waiting for star wars premiere day simply to maximize their press/publicity.

I agree, too. The only reason I mentioned it is because the problem with Star Wars is "inhouse." LucasArts has a lot of projects on the burner ... and the same creep who released a workprint of SWIII presumably has equal access to other workprints. It's always troubled me to see the media glom onto law enforcement efforts to go after the "small fry" ... while giving the big people a wide berth. This in no way diminishes the role of these "Elite" pirates in the game ... but the people who allow them to even play the game should be the real targets for law enforcement and media people.

It's kind of like reading a story about how they're cracking down on a network of cocaine dealers ... while the kingpin comfortably sips margaritas in Bogota, knowing the media won't touch him with a ten-meter cattle-prod.

[DereX888]

I guess someone at MPAA have read this thread and my rant about real pirates

excerpts:
"Human and vehicle traffic monitoring devices have become a fact of life in many large cities. Traffic cameras dot major highways and expressways throughout New York, Connecticut, New Jersey and Long Island. New York City Police also have established human monitoring devices in public areas. The goal of these devices is to relay traffic information and to deter or capture criminal activity. It appears the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) has taken a fancy to this idea.

MPAA is taking a brave new step forward. In a press release issued yesterday, the MPAA announced it would fully fund the purchase and installation of 10 video cameras (in LA). The cameras will be installed in the city's fashion district and will be monitored by police from LA’s Central Police Station.

According to the MPAA's press release, the total cost for the purchase and installation of these video cameras is $186,000. When suspicious activity is detected, officers will be directed to thwarting these clear and present dangers to pop culture."

full article:
http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=810

[BJ_M]

I guess someone at MPAA have read this thread and my rant about real pirates

excerpts:
"Human and vehicle traffic monitoring devices have become a fact of life in many large cities. Traffic cameras dot major highways and expressways throughout New York, Connecticut, New Jersey and Long Island. New York City Police also have established human monitoring devices in public areas. The goal of these devices is to relay traffic information and to deter or capture criminal activity. It appears the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) has taken a fancy to this idea.

MPAA is taking a brave new step forward. In a press release issued yesterday, the MPAA announced it would fully fund the purchase and installation of 10 video cameras (in LA). The cameras will be installed in the city's fashion district and will be monitored by police from LA’s Central Police Station.

According to the MPAA's press release, the total cost for the purchase and installation of these video cameras is $186,000. When suspicious activity is detected, officers will be directed to thwarting these clear and present dangers to pop culture."

full article:
http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=810

already posted here https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=270218