Star Wars saga - glaring artefacts

[pbhalerao]

When 'The Phantom Menace' was released, almost every question was "How come Darth Vader fails to recognize C3PO/R2-D2 in 'A New Hope' and the others?". George Lucas answered that all will be explained in the forthcoming movies. Well the second movie went pas and I have read the EP 3 book but it still does not explain this anamoly.

Also, the EP 1/2/3 have better technology than the sequels - there are intelligent droids, better fighters, guns, star ships, etc. This is a big misgiving in the movies.

Then consider the fight between Darth Maul & Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan and the fight between Count Dooku & Obi-Wan/Anakin and later with Yoda. Compare these with the light sabre battles between Darth Vader and (older) Obi-Wan (A New Hope), Darth Vader and Luke (Ep 5/6). The EP 4/5/6 light sabre duels were so 'sombre' in comparison - a joke really.

These are a few glaring mishaps of the whole saga.

Having said that the older 3 had much better story line and drama as opposed to the new ones (of course can't comment on EP 3 as yet).

Any contributions?

[smearbrick1]

YES!!! Another Star Wars thread!!!!! If the horse hadn't been beaten enough!!!

[Supreme2k]

The droids get memory-wiped before being given to Capt. Antiles (sp). I think only c3po does, since r2 still thinks he belongs to obi in ep. 4. The only thing is that it may explain c3po's memory loss, but not Anakin/Vader's (I guess being dumped into a volcano will do that to you).

I've always hated prequels, especially when they're done so far down the line from the originals. To many directors/producers/etc. are too forward thinking, so you end up with better tech in the past than the future. Same thing happened on Enterprise.

[adam]

Also, the EP 1/2/3 have better technology than the sequels - there are intelligent droids, better fighters, guns, star ships, etc. This is a big misgiving in the movies.

This is not an anamoly. The prequels are supposed to be reminiscent of the rennaissance with the jedi knights and a still thriving galaxy. After the empire takes over it forces the galaxy into the equivalent of the Dark Ages. The universe is disjointed and technology regresses. The droid army was also nothing more than an excuse to form the clone army, and that's why they dissappeared once the empire took over. Their only purpose was to lose the war.

Then consider the fight between Darth Maul & Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan and the fight between Count Dooku & Obi-Wan/Anakin and later with Yoda. Compare these with the light sabre battles between Darth Vader and (older) Obi-Wan (A New Hope), Darth Vader and Luke (Ep 5/6). The EP 4/5/6 light sabre duels were so 'sombre' in comparison - a joke really.

Lucas addresses this issue on the Prequels DVDs. In the beginning he thought that lightsabers would be such a powerful weapon that the force of it would make it extremely heavy and difficult to fight with. He said this was also sort of a forced perception since he had to have Sir Alec Guiness fight and that dude was old. In Ep. II they ran into the same problem with Dooku but were able to do him entirely in cgi for the Yoda scene.

So yes the lightsaber concept did change but it doesn't really seem like an anomoly at all, just different fighting styles for different people at different ages.

Everyone in the prequels is young and healthy except Dooku and Yoda. If you look Dooku doesn't really fight very aggressively, he more or less blocks everything and then picks his shots. All the other characters fight as you'd expect young jedi to.

In the triology Obi Won and Darth Vader are now old. Even though Vader is a badass he's still almost as old as Obi Won and he's just held together by his suit. He is more of a force user than a duelist.

So that pretty much just leaves Luke. He is entirely untrained in using the lightsaber I think. He just picks it up himself. So he doesn't use all the acrobatics and spins, he just swings and blocks.

[pbhalerao]

adam has a point.

However, memory loss in case of C3PO/R2-D2/Anakin cannot be explained:

- In 'A New Hope', C3PO tells Luke that they (C3PO/R2-D2) had been part of the clone wars
- Obi-Wan says 'Don't remember owning a droid'. Fair enough. He didn't own either droids. But surely he should have said something about remembering them
- Darth Vader remembers Obi-Wan when they meet again; knows that Luke is his son; knows that the Emporer to be his master; but does not remember the droids - especially C3PO who he had built as a boy

In the book, all it says that after Anakin was almost consumed by the lava he will never be his all-powerful himself again. Also he will never be able to use the force lightening because most of body is now metal. However his brain and other vital organs were not destroyed by the fire.

Another thing which struck me weird is - Padme dies during child birth, Luke cannot recollect her (naturally) but Leia remembers her as "beautiful but sad"!! Perhaps this was narrated to her by her foster parents; but then Padme could not have been sad for very long, could she? She comes to know about Anakin's turn to the dark side and her death is quite soon later. But the way Leia says that she remembers her mother it appears that she grew up with her mother for a while before she died.

Ah! What the heck?

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

I don't know, maybe you will bash me for this, but I think it's more like "all droids look the same". As I remember, In EP1 a droid just like c3po but silver, served tea for Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, maybe there are tons of droids that look like c3po and that is why Vader doesn't recognize him anymore, specially after all those years thinking about everything except it.
Do you recall if in any of the original trilogy c3po is introduced to vader as c3po, or referenced directly by name?, or they just happened to be in the same room without special remarks?.

[yoda313]

Hi,

don't know, maybe you will bash me for this, but I think it's more like "all droids look the same.....

Yep I would tend to agree with that. Also - he says "NEVER REMEMBER OWNING a droid" And he never owned R2 - R2 hung out with ANAKIN during most of the prequels.

Do you recall if in any of the original trilogy c3po is introduced to vader as c3po

Actually I believe VADER never comes into direct contact with either droid.......

Kevin

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

Hi,

Actually I believe VADER never comes into direct contact with either droid.......

Kevin

You see?, that's my point, he never actually sees c3po, he is just a project he had when he was a kid, nothing really important to him (when he is vader of course).
And about R2, they really never get in contact enough to recognize him.

[Noahtuck]

since r2 still thinks he belongs to obi in ep. 4.

Actualy, LUKE say's he keep's claiming to be the property of "obi wan" because he is on a mission to find "obi wan" to deliver the plans of the death star to him as programed by princess leia, but through all the movies R2 seem's to be more "concious" or "intelligent" than 3PO, almost as if he is a true "artificial" life form.....

[shelbyGT]

YES!!! Another Star Wars thread!!!!! If the horse hadn't been beaten enough!!!

Agreed.

[adam]

In Kevin Smith's blog he says that c3po's memory gets wiped in Ep. III so that explains him. I think everyone else explained VADER and r2. As for Obi Won its likely that he'd have no reason to remember them. Protocol droids are a dime a dozen in the prequels. They never really did anything, at least that they got credit for, in either ep. I or II so why should Obi Won remember them?

What's probably more likely is that Obi Won's answer regarding the droids is just cryptic so as to avoid having to explain too much to Luke all at once. What's he supposed to say? Oh yes these droids helped me hide you and your sister from Lord Vader...Doh.

[lordsmurf]

At the end of the day, it was just a crappy plotline by Lucas. Regardless of how it gets explained away. A few overlapping coincident relationships are bound to happen, and often quite fun. But at some point it just gets stupid, as it did here.

[smearbrick1]

The real bitch of it is that it took 3 prequels to show Anakin's turn from light to dark. In the original trilogy, Darth Vader is bad ass through 2 movies, then at the end of Return of the Jedi, he has a sudden of conscience. I just don't buy it. Vader's darkness was developed pretty well. I don't expect he could just turn from all of that on a whim. Something more should have been done to illustrate the conflict within him. Just another example of a poorly developed story.

[adam]

In ep. I he is just a little kid. His shift to the dark side doesn't begin until Ep. II. And then in Ep. III he turns evil fairly early on and is a badass for most of the movie. I don't know what difference it makes anyway, but the shift from light to dark is not that drawn out at all. I also personally don't think his fall was developed well at all, but that's mostly just because I think Hayden Christensen is about as convincing of an actor as Pamela Anderson.

As for his redemption in the end, I thought it was pretty damn dramatic and I think much of that would have been lost if we saw Vader "lighten" up one bit before that. Plus I think his betrayal of the emperor could not have been foreshadowed more. They talk about how the apprentice inevitably will alway betray their master, and Vader tries to get Luke to join him to betray the emperor in ESB.

I think it all boils down to one thing, you either love star wars or hate it. That seems to be the way it always goes.

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

I LOVE IT!, have tickets for tomorrow at 10:00 AM and can't wait a minute more!.

[Supreme2k]

I think it all boils down to one thing, you either love star wars or hate it. That seems to be the way it always goes.

It's closer to the Star Trek TOS vs. ST:TNG vs. Enterprise. I know TONS of people who practically live by Eps IV-VI, but absolutely loathe I-III.

[yoda313]

Hi,

Oops - forgot that VADER sees THREEPIO on CHEWIE'S back in EMPIRE. But he's all busted up and VADER is more interested in torturing HAN SOLO than remembering an old erector set he built as a kid.......

Kevin

[pbhalerao]

Oh! I love Star Wars Movies inspite of the shortcomings in the story line. With so many Star Wars threads, I thought I might as join the line. Here are some really funny spoofs on this site:

http://www.starwarsspoofs.com

The best one is this:

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/carbonite_confusion

If the above have already been distributed, please accept my apologies.