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  1. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by steve2713
    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Originally Posted by Ronaldus
    about the Pioneer +R burning problem.
    Not sure if this has been addressed before ...

    Why not burn DVD-R media instead of DVD+R media?
    What is the advantage/need of burning DVD+R that you're getting?

    There is far more high quality DVD-R than DVD+R.
    The media alone may be part of the issue, in one way or another.

    I slowly start to wonder if your problems will be solved by new burner hardware, or merely continued, regardless of burner. Because software and media has a big impact too.
    That's lame - when your beloved Pioneer 109 has problems with +R media, you go so far as to suggest not even using +R media in any capacity?..... We already know that you have a bias against +R media, so it doesn't suprise me that you'd suggest something like avoiding +R media altogether. And to say that there's far more high quality -R than +R, that's not true. I'd say there are similar amounts of good quality +R and -R media out there, but that there is a FAR larger amount of BAD -R media out there. There are very few +R media codes out there that are known poor media, while -R has a million different generic and crap media codes out there.
    My 109 is fine. I use TY DVD+R in it a lot, especially recently.
    We're addressing the 107-108 issues of the OP.

    There are LOTS of DVD-R media. Far more than DVD+R. And that means that there are more of BOTH good and bed media. TY and MCC are really the only two consistently high quality DVD+R media. While you have quite a few DVD-R codes that are excellent.

    If this user has no need to use DVD+R, and can use DVD-R with no problems, then that is absolutely a problem fix. Troubleshooting is all about getting a person up and running. It does not always mean they have limitless options, just some options that work for them. First rule of tech support.
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  2. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    If you want to fiddle with booktype, over-burning or scanning (probably the 3 most useless burner "features") then buy something else.

    Booktyping is one of the most useless features? What an incredibly stupid comment. There a number of players that will reject burned media of any type, UNLESS you bitset the burned disc to DVD-ROM. And what about if you are going to be burning DL media? Bitsetting is a VERY useful feature to have, once again you mock something to defend your Pioneer 109. It's getting old. Pioneer has problems with +R media? +R sucks. Pioneer doesn't do bitsetting? Bitsetting sucks.

  3. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Bitsetting is only for DVD+R media that doesn't want to play in players that refuse to see DVD+R media. Sometimes changing it to DVD-ROM helps, sometimes not. Either way, still less compatible than DVD-R. You are only exercising a trick meant to fool a player, it is not some magical process that changes the properties of the media.

    Are there some players that ONLY see DVD+R with DVD-ROM booktype and no other burned media? Sure, but not many. This was the point of one of my posts to the OP, to see if this is the case. If not, quit bothering with DVD+R. If so, then let's look at suggestion hardware that he needs (and since has has a couple Pioneer burners already, he may not need to buy anything else).

    In the overall grand scheme of the entire burning world, DVD-R works the best, and booktype changes are of minimal value. (With DVD+R DL media, it's a bit more important, but we're not talking about DL media right this minute.)

    You have to look at the big picture when discussing the big picture. Not just your own experience with your own equipment. For a "big picture" kind of scenario, Pioneer is easily the best burner you can buy. If you have a special situation, then other suggestions may be more appropriate. When the OP asks for suggestions and doesn't list any special needs, they get the "big picture" suggestion.

    Granted, this OP asked about scanning, but then he went on to talk about all kinds of other information, which led back to a "big picture". I have the feeling this guy has been jerked around by Best Buy salesmen that told him DVD+R is the best and DVD-R is a dying format, or some other such salesman non-sense. We need to see what the deal is.
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  4. Whatever. You just said a few minutes ago that Bitsetting is a useless feature. Now you are trying to wiggle your way out of mocking its value.

    In the overall, big picture, grand scheme, entire world, blah blah blah, Bitsetting +R to -ROM creates disc compatibility as high and probably even higher than -R media. I'm not sure how that equates to 'useless feature'.

  5. Lord Smurf, my OP was indeed on error scanning capabilities of the BenQ 1620 vs. NEC 3520 vs. the Pioneer 109. I still plan to buy a new drive very soon mainly for this purpose. The only decision that remains for me is whether to get the BenQ, NEC, or possibly a Liteon. The only reason I'm not considering a Pioneer 109 (which I know you like) is that it doesn't do error scanning and I already have 2 older (mostly) working Pioneers. I haven't read any clear evidence that the 109 is significantly better than the A06 or A07 at burning to warrant upgrading for that reason alone. I'd probably accomplish almost as much upgrading both firmwares to the latest version.

    The business about the Pioneer A07 and +R media was simply my desire to see if anyone knew why my old A06 could burn +R fine but my A07 with firmware 1.09 always fails at the finalize stage. I believe Jsl said it was a Nero issue, and then I asked why the same Nero version works fine with +R on the A06. I don't have to get +R working on the A07, but it would be nice because it's SUPPOSED to work with factory firmware.

    I don't think I ever said I had to get +R media or felt it was better. The reason I have started using more +R media is very simple: it has been on sale more often than before, especially Made in Japan TY stuff (which I like except for the speckles near the edge on the Fuji spindles). I take what is the best deal among the manufacturers I feel comfortable with. I'm not on any quest to be +R or -R exclusive. I want to be able to use any media type on any drive and not have an unacceptable amount of PI/PO (PIE/PIF) errors. I need a new error scanning drive to determine that. Otherwise I feel like I'm walking around blindfolded. To me seeing the error scans is my form of looking under the hood of the car for various types of media.

    I appreciate all your comments (and everyone else's as well) and your concern about me being duped into only wanting +R media, but my real concern is getting a drive that can burn both -R and +R at least as well as the Pioneer A06 and A07 (it doesn't have to be as good as a 109 but not worse than what I already have as I don't like taking steps backwards), and my other requirement is good error scanning ability.

    If people want to give me some input and suggested model numbers for Liteon drives, I can research those drives and I might choose to buy a Liteon right now solely for its scanning abilities. Then when I run my error scans if I find the quality of my A06 and A07 burns are unacceptable, I'll buy a Pioneer 109, BenQ 1620, or NEC 3520. I know Liteon is the de facto standard for error scanning, but I'm not convinced that is because Liteon is so much better than BenQ or simply that it arrived first.

    So I guess I'm digressing on another slight tangent about Liteon vs. BenQ 1620 when it comes to error scanning, but that still falls under the original subject of this thread to help me decide which drive to buy. Unless I can determine that Liteon is better for scanning, I'll probably get the BenQ for now. NEC 3520 can only do a subset of the error scans, and the Pioneer 109 can't do them at all. That only leaves me the BenQ and Liteon models.

  6. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    LiteOn pretty much invented the "scanning" drive, as well as most of the software that goes with it. If you want a drive made for scanning, I'd take that route. That's the drive maker I would go for, should I ever decide to scan everything all the time.

    You may want to research which model did it best, even if an older one, and buy one of those used.
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  7. Member Skith's Avatar
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    A transfer rate would be more useful. Remember, PI/PO scans done on one drive, can not and should not be compaired with scans done on any other drive, even of the same model. If you want a quick way to know if a disc is good, try a transfer rate test (cddvdspeed) or a surface scan (as suggested by lordsmurf).

    It is easy to get sucked into PI/PO scanning (I've been there).

    I won't even touch the +R vs -R question, use what your comfortable with. As for bitsetting, it is nice to have the option. Not everyone keeps a huge stash of media, or lives where huge selections are available.
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  8. [url=http]text[/url] Denvers Dawgs's Avatar
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    I always see the Benq 1620 getting bashed an shit on in so many threads lately. My only burner experiences have been the HP300i and the INFAMOUS BENQW 1620. I have made about 150+ dvds using the Benq have have been extremely happy with the quality of the burns. I've never experienced any playback problems. I run one error checking scan per new package of dvds, just to see how the drive likes the media. I only use higher quality media (Verbatim MCC & Fuji TY). But as a user of the Benq 1620, I must say that mine is a great burner. Maybe I'm lucky to have one that has no flaws or something, but I would definately buy another 1620, if I needed another drive today. I just wanted to share my experience with the 1620, this is in now way pissing on lordsmurfs experiences with the 1620, just thought you may want to hear the other side of the 1620 story.....
    What We Do In Life, Echoes In Eternity....

  9. At Newegg, there are only 3 Lite-on burners listed:

    * LITE-ON OHW-1653S - $44.99 + $4 shipping
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106985

    * LITE-ON SOHW-1673S - OEM = $49 + $4 shipping, retail = $53.99 + $4 shipping
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106967
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106964

    * LITE-ON SOHW-1693S (black only) - $62.99 + $4 shipping
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106988

    Would anyone with Lite-On knowledge or experience give me his opinion which would be the best choice? I'm still going to research the models here and on CD Freaks, but I'd also like to know which of the 3 people consider the best (primarily for error scanning, but good burning would be nice too).

    As usual, I can't tell from the Newegg descriptions what extras are included in the 1673S retail package for $5 more than the OEM. It looks like Nero is included with both.

  10. Member normcar's Avatar
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    I have 3 Benqs, one of which was an IO Magic, and they all work great. I have 5 DVD players (one of which was the very first Sony player when there was only 20 DVD titles), and they all play the +Rs.

    I believe I read somewhere that bitsetting is only required on the +R because is was not part of the standard, but the bitsetting is a part of -R standards, so it is done as a part of the burning or finializing.

    I use mostly Fuji +Rs (made in Japan) because they are usually on sale. But the +R TDKs work fine too.
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  11. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    Ronaldus take a look at the LITEON FORUM at cdfreaks.com if you want more information....in my opinion i wouldn't touch a LITEON drive....i have one and only use it if my dvdroms can't read a dvd disc for some reason....just my 2 cents....

  12. I called some nearby Staples who have the I/O Magic burner on sale for about $40 after rebates. I specifically asked to check if it said "DL +R 2.4x" because I was told that's how I'd know it was a BenQ 1620. Each place told me the drive they had on sale said "DL +R 4x".

    Does anyone know if that means there are no more BenQs sold by I/O Magic left at my Staples or is the BenQ only included in a different SKU I/O Magic burner (i.e. not the one on sale which is SKU 602137)? Of course the Staples employees don't know anything about how to tell whether a BenQ is in the box.

  13. I have NEC3520, I took steve2713 suggestion and fashed it works better now you just have to remember not to burn at the max rate it shows go with dvd rating. there is a way to flash back to original.

  14. Liteon drives are the worst burners between all those being discussed. Not that they are crap, just that they can be very picky with media unless you like tinkering with alot of FW write strategies. Since updating the FW even once seems to put the fear of God into you, I'd say that Liteon would not be a good choice for you.

    About the I/O Magic, I've read that you can still find some that are Benq but they can sometimes be pretty hard to find in the Benq version now.

    normcar - Bitset will allow you to bitset a +R and +RW, as well as DL +R, to DVD-ROM. This tells the drive/player that the disc is a pressed disc (like the store bought discs). -R discs CANNOT be bitset and the drive/player will see the disc as -R. Players are slightly more compatible with -R over +R, but if the discs are bitset to DVD-ROM they are almost 100% compatible with players. There's never a sure thing with burned discs, but +R bitset to DVD-ROM is as close as you'll get to perfect compatibility.

  15. Originally Posted by stiltman
    What matters. Burn then play
    If it plays, I could careless what the PI/PO scans says....
    Yay!

    For those who find the PI/PO (whatever the heck that means!) scans fun and/or useful, by all means I say go for whatever drive'll make you happy. But having burned hundreds of discs on my ol' Pioneer A106 burner, and not ever testing one of them using a "PI/PO" scan, just play 'em in a deck, I gotta say -- I'm happy with the results.

    My own concerns: I have some video footage that I wanted to digitize, and I ended up sending copies of discs to about 50 different people (long story involving "authorized bootlegs." ) I used this forum to research media choices -- went with -R media from Ritek, based on various research -- and burned a big stack of discs and out of 50 different people, only 1 had playback problems (and that was a defective disc, far as I can tell, he sent it back and it had weird-looking dye).

    I was truly nervous about playback compatibility for different media and different players (not knowing what kinda decks these would get played back in), and I love the rock-solid performance of my trusty Pioneer burner.

    Not to say that other burners might not perform equally well! Just saying that I've had great experiences and very few coasters with my burner.

    Anyway, main point -- I never tested any of these for "errors" aside from sticking it in a deck and trying to play it back. If it plays, then good, if not, then and burn another.

    Good luck on whatever burner you use!

  16. Amen, I've done many hundreds of burns on the NEC 3500, I've never wasted time scanning or verifying and never had any problems except for a couple of defective discs that I could see were bad just by looking at them. I've sent many hundreds of discs to other people too and none of them have ever had problems either.

  17. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    Ronaldus get your BENQ 1620 from Newegg.com $49.99. As already mentioned it is hard to find a REBADGED BENQ from I/O MAGIC. Circuit City used to have the REBADGED BENQ if you're lucky you could find one there. In my opinion get the BENQ from Newegg.com or wait until the BENQ 1640 arrives in the USA or get a PLEXTOR 716A or AL drive that can do scans as well with PLEXTOOLS.

  18. Thanks for the additional input on my drive decision. After the latest comments by Steve2713 and Budz, I think I've decided on the BenQ 1620. The Plextor 716-xx starts at over $100, and (exactly as I expected) Newegg raised the price on the NEC 3520 several dollars.

    Is there any sort of strategy or trick to know when to buy from Newegg whose prices and shipping costs are almost as volatile as the stock market? For instance, do their prices change at a set time each day? The black BenQ went from $49.99 + $4 shipping to $51.99 with free shipping, so at least it went the right direction.

    I'm going by Staples and Circus City tomorrow so I could check the I/O Magic drives in stock, but from what I gathered from one above-average Staples guy on the phone, the I/O Magic DL +R 2.4x models (the BenQ 1620) have a different SKU and are not included in the $40 sale going on (plus I had a 12% coupon), so the BenQs would probably a lot more at either place *IF* I found any. Do I dare risk a price increase by waiting until tomorrow night to order from Newegg?

    I guess I'm stuck getting a black faceplate because the other colors are out of stock (but will probably come in stock the day after I order).

    The one I plan to get is at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827101632

    There is another package BenQ 1620 "retail" package called "Bonus" at
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827101639.
    What's odd is that it has nothing extra listed and no Software section, but the OEM one for $12 less lists "Nero" as included under the Software section. Pay more to get no software? It doesn't make sense.

    Finally, when I was advised to look for I/O Magic drives with "DL +R 2.4x", I took that to mean that BenQ 1620s only support DL +R at 2.4x, but both of these BenQ 1620 drives at Newegg say "DL +R 4x". Does anyone know why?

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    Finally, when I was advised to look for I/O Magic drives with "DL +R 2.4x", I took that to mean that BenQ 1620s only support DL +R at 2.4x, but both of these BenQ 1620 drives at Newegg say "DL +R 4x". Does anyone know why?
    When I\O Magic was buying BenQ 1620s, the included firmwar at the time only allowed 2.4x DL burning. They (BenQ) have since upgraded the firmware to include 4x DL burning.

  20. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    the only difference between the PRO and OEM is you get software like NERO with PRO and the drive is already loaded with the firmware for 4x DL DVD+R.....the OEM you would have to flash the drive to get the 4x DL DVD+R which is easily done by downloading the firmware from BENQ website.....the OEM drives come with the "G" firmware and PRO comes with "B" series firmware.....some will say "B" is better but the firmwares are the same....

  21. Thanks, Budz and everyone else. I'm almost at the end of my drive quest. I did a little more searching on the BenQ 1620 here and saw some talk about the Pro vs. OEM. Like Budz said, the difference appears to be solely the firmware shipped and the DL +R speed. (I probably will never do DL burns.) Surprisingly, I didn't find very much helpful information on CD Freaks in the BenQ/Phillips forum section.

    What initially concerned me is reading the description of the BenQ 1620 vs. 1620 Pro at BenQ's site. The 1620 Pro has a big description with pictures talking about the wonders of "WOPC II", Tilt Control, and such, while the plain 1620 description barely mentions them with no pictures. However, the features look the same so the hardware must be the same.

    I'm curious about the BenQ 1640 which is supposed to come out in June. Does anyone know if its price upon release will be comparable to the 1620 (i.e. in the $50-$60 range) or will it be really expensive at first? Also, are dealers likely to blow out the BenQ 1620 inventory when the 1640 comes out (i.e. sell the 1620 cheaper than $40) making me wish I had waited another month to pick up the 1620?

    I know it's just speculation, but perhaps someone has an educated guess...

  22. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ronaldus
    Thanks, Budz and everyone else. I'm almost at the end of my drive quest. I did a little more searching on the BenQ 1620 here and saw some talk about the Pro vs. OEM. Like Budz said, the difference appears to be solely the firmware shipped and the DL +R speed. (I probably will never do DL burns.) Surprisingly, I didn't find very much helpful information on CD Freaks in the BenQ/Phillips forum section.

    What initially concerned me is reading the description of the BenQ 1620 vs. 1620 Pro at BenQ's site. The 1620 Pro has a big description with pictures talking about the wonders of "WOPC II", Tilt Control, and such, while the plain 1620 description barely mentions them with no pictures. However, the features look the same so the hardware must be the same.

    I'm curious about the BenQ 1640 which is supposed to come out in June. Does anyone know if its price upon release will be comparable to the 1620 (i.e. in the $50-$60 range) or will it be really expensive at first? Also, are dealers likely to blow out the BenQ 1620 inventory when the 1640 comes out (i.e. sell the 1620 cheaper than $40) making me wish I had waited another month to pick up the 1620?

    I know it's just speculation, but perhaps someone has an educated guess...
    Your welx.....The 1640 will probably be expensive at first.....The 1620's are dropping in price because the 1640 will be released in the USA in June from what others have said at cdfreaks.com....If you're not going to do DL burning then stick with the 1620.....I don't do any DL burning because the media is so expensive....There is a WOPC TOOL available that someone developed....I would just stick to using the Q-SUITE TOOL that is from BENQ which has WOPC that can be enabled/disabled.

  23. Thanks, Budz. I finally bit the bullet and placed my order for the 1620 for $51.99 delivered. It looks like you're almost as bad as I am... staying up until 1 or 2 AM when I have to go to work in 6 hours.

    I have only followed the BenQ 1620's price history for 1 week, so I don't know if $51.99 is a good deal or not. You said the 1620s have been dropping in price, so I assume they were significantly more than that a few months ago.

    Now if the BenQ 1620's price at Newegg suddenly falls to the low $40s (or below) or the beige models come in stock, then people will know it's because I just ordered one with a black faceplate. I would've waited another month if I thought the price would drop a lot due to the 1640, but that's rather iffy. I don't recall seeing any burners cheaper than $40 even on closeout, so at worst I'd guess the 1620 could drop to $40 before it disappears.

    It would be a bummer if I see an I/O Magic DL +R 2.4x for $40 at Staples tomorrow, but if that happens maybe I could cancel Newegg in time. When this BenQ OEM drive comes without Nero software, considering Newegg advertised that it came with Nero, should I do/say anything to Newegg about it or just let it drop because they aren't responsible for "typographical errors"?

  24. DVD Ninja budz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ronaldus
    Thanks, Budz. I finally bit the bullet and placed my order for the 1620 for $51.99 delivered. It looks like you're almost as bad as I am... staying up until 1 or 2 AM when I have to go to work in 6 hours.

    I have only followed the BenQ 1620's price history for 1 week, so I don't know if $51.99 is a good deal or not. You said the 1620s have been dropping in price, so I assume they were significantly more than that a few months ago.

    Now if the BenQ 1620's price at Newegg suddenly falls to the low $40s (or below) or the beige models come in stock, then people will know it's because I just ordered one with a black faceplate. I would've waited another month if I thought the price would drop a lot due to the 1640, but that's rather iffy. I don't recall seeing any burners cheaper than $40 even on closeout, so at worst I'd guess the 1620 could drop to $40 before it disappears.

    It would be a bummer if I see an I/O Magic DL +R 2.4x for $40 at Staples tomorrow, but if that happens maybe I could cancel Newegg in time. When this BenQ OEM drive comes without Nero software, considering Newegg advertised that it came with Nero, should I do/say anything to Newegg about it or just let it drop because they aren't responsible for "typographical errors"?
    It's only 10:36 p.m. here in Hawaii!!! LoL!!!! You can never tell if the prices will drop on Newegg. It's like trying to time the stockmarket. Newegg says it comes with NERO BURN so they should honor it. I would pursue them to give you the software since it's on their website. I have never had problems with Newegg's customer service. No harm in asking them for the software. The most they could say is NO or ok we'll send it to you. Remember that the NERO is a OEM version so in order for you to upgrade to the latest version I think you have to pay for the key.

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    i have three burners and one combo drive for dvd playing cd burning. they are

    LiteOn 532K For DVD scans and CD Burning
    LiteOn 1233s@1653s for burning all types of +R Media
    Nec 3500A--burns MXL discs without fail
    Pioneer DVR 108--burns Ritek G05 Hub printables without fail.

    I have yet to scan a bad disk or make a coaster.

    Thats all I got to say about that.--EXCEPT--STOP BASHING LORSMURF.

    @STEVE2713---anyone who advocates CMC media must come from a broken home!!!!!! or have a broken mind!!!!!!

  26. Strange how much NEC owners know about Pioneer burners, especially what they CANT do? As usual... And as LS said, please let us have our own experiences, at least we have some, not only things we read and then go back and edit posts to make it "untouchable" and copy other peoples words as our own. Do i need to quote before its very conveniently edited away?
    Originally Posted by stiltman
    And at what speed does your standalone DVD player read at....????


    Thought so
    Originally Posted by steve2713
    But what speed does your standalone player read at .....????

    THOUGHT SO
    Someone is talking about bitsetting here, but noone mentions the fact that Pioneer 109 can write single layer DVD+R as DVD-ROM. I dont usually believe things like that without trying myself, so i id, and heres the result:

    The recipe is quite simple, use Buffalo oem firmware 8.40. Thanks to janusz for this little trick. Not that im going to use it that much but nice to know.

  27. The same goes for Pioneer owners knowing so much about NEC burners they don't own, IE Lordsmurf.

  28. See, smurfie is smart enough to steer away from them. Wish i was too, but no... The only thing that got seriously burned with my nec was the owner.

  29. Originally Posted by thor300
    Strange how much NEC owners know about Pioneer burners, especially what they CANT do? As usual... And as LS said, please let us have our own experiences, at least we have some, not only things we read and then go back and edit posts to make it "untouchable" and copy other peoples words as our own. Do i need to quote before its very conveniently edited away?
    Originally Posted by stiltman
    And at what speed does your standalone DVD player read at....????


    Thought so
    Originally Posted by steve2713
    But what speed does your standalone player read at .....????

    THOUGHT SO
    I'm not sure what you are implying here, clearly it's above your head to understand why I repeated his reason for why a Scandisc SHOULD NOT be relied on for a disc's ability to play back properly on a standalone player. I used his own argument for using Scandisc because a standalone player maintains a constant speed AGAINST HIM - I'm not 'stealing his words and using them as my own', I'm using them as the perfect reason why Scandisc ISN'T an appropriate way to test media for standalone playback, rather than the other way around. A Scandisc test can read a disc at whatever speed it wants, including SLOWER than a standalone's playback speed, which of course would show up as a perfect Scandisc test but would result in skipping on a standalone player.

    Thanks for cracking the case and quoting both of us, Sherlock... Oh no, now I can't edit something I have no reason to edit anyway, you've quoted me!!

    You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning. It's fine to disagree with people, and to discuss it all you want. It may even become a heated debate at times. But your snarky/rude comments have become overly excessive. Stop attacking users.

    If somebody attacks you, report it, and they'll be the one getting the warning. Several other people probably deserve a swift kick here, but you're the only one that has done it 2-3 times in the thread.

    / Moderator lordsmurf

  30. Originally Posted by virginva
    @STEVE2713---anyone who advocates CMC media must come from a broken home!!!!!! or have a broken mind!!!!!!
    Or someone who isn't one of Lordsmurf's lemmings and has a mind of his own. I'm not 'bashing' anyone, I'm only calling out someone when they say something that's wrong. I've burned close to a thousand CMC discs of all kinds of brands and media codes, and they have been nothing less than outstanding on all 3 of my burners. Two year old discs still play back perfectly and still scan with low PI/PO errors to this day. So no, I don't have a broken mind, just a mind of my own who's not afraid to ignore the advice of someone who is quite often wrong. There are plenty of other sites that know that CMC is good media, but on this site there are a large number of people that are afraid to think on their own and actually try the media, choosing instead to follow the BS advice of a few or even one.




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