DV capture/authoring noob questions

[binister]

My first post so please be gentle. I searched around a bit but didn't find any answers to my specific questions. I mainly just want to confirm my understanding of this whole process.

1. Is there any way to open up captured DV files (from a digital camcorder) in VirtualDub *without* installing any VFW codecs assuming XP is the OS? If not, is the Panasonic DV codec the way to go?

2. I have captured (copied) some DV footage from my Canon Elura to my PC using both Nero and WinDV. I captured the video as type 1 DV, extracted the AC3 audio using ffmpeg and opened the AVI file up in VirtualDubMod (w/Panasonic DV codec) which of course gave me the "audio can't be loaded" message. All fine. However, when I step through the DV footage in VDM, I noticed the footage has interlacing artifacts... Like so...



My question is more of a confirmation as to why this is happening. The footage was shot interlaced so the two fields are slightly timeshifted. When the footage is digitized the two slightly different fields are merged into one progressive frame. Is this correct?

3. The strange thing is that if I open my DV Type 1 AVI file in Windows Media Player the footage does not have the interlacing artifacts. Does WMP auto-deinterlace?

4. An even stranger thing is that if I open up Nero Vision Express and load the AVI file into a timeline *and then* play the file through WMP the interlacing artifacts appear! If I close Nero and replay the AVI file in WMP the interlacing is gone. What is going on?

Thanks for any responses.

EDIT: Sorry about the non-cropped pic, I haven't installed PS on my new rig yet.

[redwudz]

I've always needed to install a DV codec. Panasonic DV codec works for me.

I generally use Type 2 as it's more compatible with VD and TMPGEnc encoder.

You need a viewing program to accept interlaced video. Not sure if WMP does this. I use Power DVD which I know can properly display interlace video.

Your URL tag has an extra bracket, I think. The img looks OK, but if you edit things around it your post, the img and url tags can get messed up.

EDIT: Check your profile. Your HTML or BBCode may be turned off.

Sorry, the more technical part of your questions I will have to leave to somebody else.

[Richard_G]

WMP is pretty poor with interlaced footage, PowerDVD handles it much better so will give a more realistic image. However, when you come to burn this footage to DVD and play it back on a TV, you will not see any of the interlacing artifacts as a TV is intended for viewing interlaced footage. A pc monitor isn't so although it may look grim on your monitor, it will be fine once it becomes a DVD and is played on a TV.

[vhelp]

1. Is there any way to open up captured DV files (from a digital camcorder)
in VirtualDub *without* installing any VFW codecs assuming XP is the OS? If
not, is the Panasonic DV codec the way to go?

I'm not really too sure about *all* the differenct codes and there specs, but
I do know that vdub is built with VFW requirements. You can get away with WDM
"type requirements" through the use of a wrapper.. (ie, vfw-to-wdm) but there
were bugs in certain setup versions (system, that is) and the majority of sys's
were not updated with latest firmware/drivers/patches etc., so on many user's
video, they were limited to 320 x 240 captures (give or take) and that was
pretty much the extent of it. However, as time past, things change. But mostly
through newer drivers for newer products. This in turn, had an *inverse* effect
and allowed the vfw-to-wdm to work properly.., and one could capture as high
as 720/768 x 480/576 on there system. I was one of them. with my Winfast
card, I could capture as high as 768 x 480 inside vdub (a vfw app) or vVCR, a
WDM app.
.
But, its a matter of other things going around. I did have to play around with
various versions of vfw drivers. If you want to experiment (at your leasure)
you can do a search for this wrapper file, give or take spelling:

--> "vfwwdm" or "vfwtowdm" or "vfw_wdm" etc.

And these are the files that the archieve will have in it:
* vfwwdm32.dll
* vfwwdm.inf - install file - you right-click and select Install.
* vfwwdm.drv

Anyways.

I think that MS has a generic codec called MS.DV or something. And, if you
dont' have a specific DV codec installed on your system, it will use it.
In any case, one of its codecs opens pretty much everything. And, that explains
a lot of users' issues when it comes to DV sources. Also, issues may arise
from the differences in type (ie, type 1 vs. type 2) files. The Type 2 files
are easier for most editing apps, including TMPG because of way the audio is
incorporated into the AVI source file. However, I still use Type 1 files
I have a work-around for using it with vdub and TMPG together, which never
fails me

>> 1. Is there any way to open up captured DV files (from a digital camcorder) ..

No and Yes.

As I said above, about that mystery codec from MS.., it may open it. But,
if you don't have any codecs, including the MS one, then you won't be able to
open it inside vdub. But, that doesn't stop other apps (ie, editors/encoders)
from opening it inside there own engine. So, that's a Yes and No scenario.

Interlacing ...

The only time when you want to apply some kind of de-interlacing algorithem
to your source is for when you want to watch it on a PC monitor.., otherwise,
perhaps for experimental purposes.
.
But, in most cases, you want to leave it as Interlaced, and proceed to encode
it. When finaly played by your DVD player and TV set, everything will be
alright (IOW, progressive looking) and enjoyable.
.
The last thing to worry about with DV (asusming your cam footage) is the
amount of bitrate you apply for your finaly MPEG. That is what is important.
For DV (cam footage) you always want to you a high bitrate because of the
amount of "shake" that gets recorded during shooting video. I like to start
my bitrate at 9000 but others here have claimed 8000 for theres. So, what
I would suggest is that you start at 8000 (or lower) and work your way up
till you are satisfied.

Quality ...

What will get you best quality for your cam footage will depend largely
on your level of Skills; Knowledge; Technique; and Encoder
.
If you have all three SKT, but a poor Encoder, no matter what your SKT level,
won't matter all that much. *BUT* you also have to have SKT with *THE*
Encoder tool. So, don't forget this as well. So, when you hear other users
claim great quality, please factor the notes above on SKT and E comment I
made.

Capturing your screen area (aka, video window) ...

Inside your editor (ie, vdub) when you are at a frame, press Ctrl+1 and
copy that to your graphics app. Any app will do.., even MS Paint.., and
save as whatever bitmap format is available to your setup. You should be
able to redo that pic above, whith these steps I just laid out

Good luck thus far.

Cheers,
-vhelp 3326

[binister]

Thank you for the replies.

I am still unclear as to what I need to edit captured video in VirtualDubMod. I am not trying to capture video in VirtualDubMod, I only want to edit previously captured video (captured with another program like WinDV). I installed the Panasonic DV codec and it seemed to work but I am wondering if there is a better way to be able to load DV footage in VirtualDubMod.

Also, when capturing from my a camcorder (Elura 50) using WinDV am I using vfw or WDM?

[guns1inger]

The panasonic codec is the standard way. I have seen other ideas mentioned here, but they seem to be hit and miss as to success.

WinDV uses WDM. VFW is very much legacy now.

There are free editors that use a more traditional layout and provide more features than virtualdub as far as editing is concerned.