Picture Quality VHS 2 DVD

[DVD_Ben]

Please could you help me out to identify the source of a picture quality prob I encounter?
I have copied some (admittantly old) VHS recordings (PAL) to my DVD recorder (Sharp DV-HR350F with hard disk drive) via a Euro-SCART (or Peritel) connection (the only possible connection if I won't use an adapter of Video (3 component) to SCART).
What I observe is that the picture gets heavily grainy when put on still image or on fast or slow motion. This grainieness is not visible when on normal play mode. On normal play the image is as good as on VHS.
In order to exclude the problem to be a problem of the VHS recordings: this grainieness is not existent on them. It does not matter if I choose still image on my VHS recorder. The picture qualitiy is as in normal play. So I guess, the grainieness is introduced by my recorder. It's probably the compression function.
Now what I don't understand: I did some DVD recordings from TV and even though a (very very) slight grainieness can be observed when put on still image, it is almost not noticeable.
Please could you help my to solve this enigma why I get rather good picture quality from TV but bad quality from VHS. And probably do you have an idea how I can avoid to get such a bad quality ...

thanx a lot

[Videodoctor]

Best results Video to DVD

With a simple consumer VCR you will always have some grain, noise, etc. The best results you will get from a prfessonal VCR like the Panasonic AG-7750. This broadcast machine has 2 digital noise reducers (1 for chrominance and 1 for luminance) and a timebase corrector. If you use a consumer VCR (and a video grabber like Magix), the results are very poor. For a recorded TV show, maybe it would be good for you. But if you want to save family home video´s, you better buy professional (broadcast-) equipment. On my webpage video 2 dvd (it´s only in dutch) I made a comparison of 1 movie played on a consumer VCR and the same selection on a the AG-7750. Watch it, enjoy it and make your decision.

John

[sanlyn]

Please could you help me out to identify the source of a picture quality prob I encounter?
I have copied some (admittantly old) VHS recordings (PAL) to my DVD recorder (Sharp DV-HR350F with hard disk drive) via a Euro-SCART (or Peritel) connection (the only possible connection if I won't use an adapter of Video (3 component) to SCART).
What I observe is that the picture gets heavily grainy when put on still image or on fast or slow motion. This grainieness is not visible when on normal play mode.

The grainiess is always visible, its prominence depending on how you're viewing it. If you have a modern tv and noise reduction and all the other auto garbage is turned on, its noise reduction circuit is using temporal filters to reduce noise during play. It will not reduce noise during still image viewing because temporal filters don't respond to unchanging images. If you're viewing on an older CRT, noise is not as evident.

On normal play the image is as good as on VHS.

...which is not very good, even on a CRT. Even with a pristine retail VHS stored under careful conditions, residual tape noise is still present. Again, it depends on how you're viewing it.

In order to exclude the problem to be a problem of the VHS recordings: this grainieness is not existent on them. .. .

I will wager that it is, if you are referring to the tape. Again, refer to viewing hardware and conditions above

It does not matter if I choose still image on my VHS recorder.

This is an effective way to permanently damage VHS tape.

So I guess, the grainieness is introduced by my recorder. It's probably the compression function.

It's "introduced" by digital encoding. Digital encoders expect a rather noise-free signal, which does not exist with VHS. Encoders make such noise look worse.

Now what I don't understand: I did some DVD recordings from TV and even though a (very very) slight grainieness can be observed when put on still image, it is almost not noticeable.

Except for the usual transmission noise, TV broadcast is usually not as noisy as tape.

There are some popular and well-proven guidelines concerning VHS-> DVD transfer. The best and worst ways to transfer VHS go something like this:
Worst: Record directly from VHS to a DVD recorder.
Better: Use a PC capture device (some of which have noise reduction and other features) to DVD-compliant encoded video onto a computer, then edit and author the DVD from there.
Best: Use a good capture device to record digitally to a lossless AVI container, clean and post-process the capture, encode to MPEG2 for DVD. Most users would add that a line-tbc device of some kind between the player and recording device is essential for VHS. The better the tape player, the better the results. However, this method involves a learning curve, the proper hardware, and patience.

There is more noise and visual disturbance on your recordings than you think. You just haven't learned to identify it yet. Submit a few seconds of sample video to the forum, and members will show you what we mean.

Or......take the previous respondent's advice and have the tapes transferred by competent technicians. Shop around.

[poisondeathray]

LOL I doubt DVD_Ben has been glued to the screen waiting for a 7 year old reply

[Videodoctor]

Best results Video to DVD

With a simple consumer VCR you will always have some grain, noise, etc. The best results you will get from a prfessonal VCR like the Panasonic AG-7750. This broadcast machine has 2 digital noise reducers (1 for chrominance and 1 for luminance) and a timebase corrector. If you use a consumer VCR (and a video grabber like Magix), the results are very poor. For a recorded TV show, maybe it would be good for you. But if you want to save family home video´s, you better buy professional (broadcast-) equipment. On my webpage video 2 dvd (it´s only in dutch) I made a comparison of 1 movie played on a consumer VCR and the same selection on a the AG-7750. Watch it, enjoy it and make your decision.

John

[hech54]

Even a good, quality consumer VCR will give you good results.
My $56(on Ebay) Philips VR1100 VCR(with built-in TBC - Time Base Corrector) and S-Video OUT to a little Hauppauge USB capture device
can do stuff like this:
https://rapidshare.com/files/1409680798/sample.mpg
"There ain't no perfect world anyway"

[sanlyn]

I'll agree with videodoctor. However:
Broadcast equipment is so far beyond the means of hobbyists (and used and likely burned-out, at that, with servicing and maintenance a critical issue), that post-processing in the comfort of the home is the alternative. But the alternative takes time and learning. For those willing to go thru the angst and struggle, it might be worth it. For those who want a quick fix, or don't know what they're doing and/or have no time to learn, the videodoctor method is the route to take.

[sanlyn]

LOL I doubt DVD_Ben has been glued to the screen waiting for a 7 year old reply


[Attachment 14054 - Click to enlarge]

You'd be surprised. Few weeks ago I got a PM on something Imposted in 2005. Also, the O.P. was moved to the top of the forum index and was dated today.
One never knows, do one?