Which Satellite service is best? Better than Digital Cable?

[BrainStorm69]

I have Comcast Digital Cable, but I'm getting fed up with macroblocking on the premium movie channels, some ghosting problems, and sh!tty service. Are the satellite providers any better?

And of the satellite providers, which is better - Dish Network or Direct TV?

I'm in the Dallas area if any of you have experience here.

Thanks.

[Gargoyle]

I've been a DirecTV subscriber for a little over a year, and have had the same issue; but not on the premium movie channel that I currently get: seems to me that shows that are also broadcast in HD (Lost, 24, Alias, etc.) have worse macroblocking/compression artifacts in the "non-HD" version; other non-HD shows (Scrubs, The Apprentice) have much better picture quality. My personal theory is that they are severely compressing the non-HD version to allow more bandwidth for the HD broadcast.
But, all said, the cheapest Digital package available to me from Comcast is about $64.00/month (30-40 channels); with DirecTV, I'm paying about $50.00/month for two receivers (one of which is Tivo/DVR unit), for about 90 video channels and 30 music channels.
A co-worker subcribes to the Dish network, and said he sees the same macroblocking problem on certain shows/channels.

BTW - I dumped Comcast because of crappy picture quality (the non-digital cable package); and even though there are some picture quality issues with DirecTV, they're not bad enough to make me switch back to Comcast.

[pfh]

AFAIK, the blocking you describe is a transmission issue. And remember this- even cable recieves it's signals thru a dish.

Not really sure there is much an end user can do about it. (except complain to the provider) Could be newer satellites or more of 'em are needed to eleminate the macro blocking.

[northcat_8]

Dishnetwork. Same programming lesser price. Plus DVR receiver is same monthly charge as regular receiver.

Dish also more flexible with bill paying.

And the biggest bonus...

If you get the large dish (500, I think) so you can get local network stations, you won't lose reception everytime it gets cloudy.

DirectTV loses reception so much that I started docking their payment for hours I couldn't get a reception. In the midwest March, April, May are storm season, which translates to no TV reception with DirectTV. I've never lost reception with Dishnetwork...not once.

Oh and did I mention Dish is cheaper than Direct?

[Matt D]

I have been a DirecTV customer since 1997, and I have never had problems. I do not receive HD, so maybe the complaints of macroblocking are an issue for some, I can't say.
As far as reception goes, I don't know where you live Northcat, but I never lose reception. Rain, lightning, 36" of snow, it doesn't matter, the reception is fine.
Yes, the price for Dish is a LITTLE lower, but they don't give you as much as DTV either. I think my Grandmother pays $30 a month for the basic Dish package, and the channels they offer are mostly crap. You don't get Sci-Fi or the Science channel, and there are a bunch more she doesn't receive with this package. It might be cheaper, but it's cheaper because they cut down your channels.
Oh well, for my money DirecTV is the way to go.

[Gargoyle]

I do not receive HD, so maybe the complaints of macroblocking are an issue for some, I can't say.

I don't get the HD broadcasts, either; I was referring to the macroblocking on standard-definition shows that are also broadcast in HD. It may be because I'm viewing them on a 36" screen that the artifacts are so pronounced.

[Matt D]

Ok, sorry Gargoyle. What signal strength do you get? Mine is always 98-100, and I do not see those problems on regular TV. Lost I watch, Eyes I watch, Alias and 24 I dont.

[Gargoyle]

My Signal strength is also 98-100, but I've noticed that while I can see the artifacts during the actual program, they are almost non-existent during commercials...I actually complained to DirecTv about the problem, but never got a straight answer.

[Donny661]

I have Charter digital cable. Surprisingly, I find that the quality of the basic cable channels are pretty good, but the extended cable channels and the movie channels, which one can only get with the digital receiver, can sometimes look like a VCD with the noise and blocking. We also have a 36" standard definition TV.

[mcnabb311]

Digital cable just doesn't look as good as satellite IMO. I've had DirecTV HD and it looks great. I can't wait to get more channels, and then I'll subscribe to it again. And as far as losing signal, it happens about 1 every 2-3 months for a few minutes during a massive rainstorm.

[painkiller]

There can be a number of reasons for the macroblocking.

As a recent subscriber to Directv, I can say that it is fairly better than the cable service I had before.

But I also found out, as a result of further research, that sometimes this macroblocking/signal loss is usually weather related. Called rain fade, if you don't have any other technical issues that could inject the macroblock/signal loss problem.

The FCC regulations say that people can have a satellite dish that is no larger than a 1 meter dish (36.37 inches in diameter). And the dishes you can only get from Directtv and Dish Network are not larger than 18" in diameter (excepting the oval one from Directv that is 18" by 20", I think).

So, I'd say it would be better to try a larger dish in order to attempt improving the issue. At least for your immediate area of weather. It won't change anything if the problems are on the uplink side of the signal path.

For myself, I am about to consider trying a 36" dish from the following site:

http://www.eyeinthesky.net/cgi-bin/db.cgi?catopt1=Satellite+Dishes

I like the one called:
DBS dish - 36-inch (Channel Master) Gainmaster Oval (DirecTV) $149.00

See if anybody else thinks so.

[EvilWizardGlick]

I left DISH for Cable about a year ago.
Dish and Direct all have incentives for the first time subscriber, but NOTHING for long term customers. So for the first year you are good, after that you get screwed.
Plus rainfade is a problem where I live. Any heavy rain or snow storm and no signal until it clears up. That varies anywhere from a couple minutes to a couple of hours.
I gave up Dish and the Telco for the cable premium package with cable modem. I'm saving money and getting better internet speed. Plus instead of a land line we went with a Tracphone to save even more.
If you harp enough at cable they will fix the problem. But you need to be a pain in the ass. Many times the signal problem is due to a faulty line somewhere between you and the company. They can sweep the area to discover if that is what happening.
Or, if they install new cable in the house they forget to replace the thirty year old line to the house.
Either way each offers pluses and minuses.

[leebo]

I've had DISH for 5 or 6 years. Some of you may remember when DISH and Direct boasted of superior picture quality. Haven't heard that in a LONG time.

I get the same artifects as others have reported. I live in So. Cal, so no snow, thunderstormes, etc.

Rainfade is BS they use to get rid of complainers (theres nothing we can do - it's god's fault).

Look. they used to boast superior picture quality. Then they discovered people wanted 500 channels. So thats what they advertize now.
Well, you can't cram all those extra channels in the same space w/o dropping the bitrate/frame size/etc.

I expect it doesn't make much difference which company you go with as far as picture quality is concerned. Try checking the newsgroups. there's one for each provider. Thats how you can get an idea of what to expect.

Go for value (i.e. what will they give you) also.

[edDV]

FYI, DirecTV and Dish are in the process of replacing their HD service with MPeg4 that will offer many more DTV/HD channels local and national. New STB receivers will be required and expect startup problems.

Meanwhile cable is upgrading at paces that vary locally. In cable areas with sufficient bandwidth they will be expanding HD service significantly as Dish and DirecTV come online with MPeg4 HD. This may cause SD channels to become more not less compressed for the short term in areas with limited bandwidth.

[Ward River]

Rode out 4 hurricanes here in central Florida last year. Brand new DirectTV subscriber. Never lost my signal/picture once through any of the storms. Power was out four days after one storm, a week and a half following one of the others. The whole time my DirectTV was working fine. My next door neighbor had cable TV (HAD) and even though he had a generator like me and could power everything up, the cable company's grid was offline and they had no TV other than rabbit ears for 2 days until the cable company got their grid powered back up and online.

Picture quality is just as clear with the satellite as it was with the cable, maybe even a little better, and my satellite picture doesn't macroblock up anywhere near as much as my digital cable used to.

[northcat_8]

As far as reception goes, I don't know where you live Northcat, but I never lose reception. Rain, lightning, 36" of snow, it doesn't matter, the reception is fine.

Dayton, Ohio. And you're lucky, I lost reception if a humming bird had a bead of sweat drip off its forehead while flying over my DirectTV dish.

Yes, the price for Dish is a LITTLE lower, but they don't give you as much as DTV either.

Untrue. I've had both. IMO Direct is still milking off of Primestar...that's how long I had Direct...I started when it was Primestar

DirectTV - Total Choice (125 channels) + HBO and Starz = $90

Dishnetwork - America's Choice 180 (180 channels) = HBO and Cinemax = $80

Plus Dish has UHF remotes and the $80 includes 2 receivers, one a DVR receiver <which I cannot live without now>.

as far as picture quality, they are both identical. I see no difference. I also think the picture quality is better than cable, but that might just be my friend and in-law's TVs.

I will admit that I am 100% anti-DirectTV. But in the same breath...honestly, Dish was cheaper for me and the service is better where I live. Any artifacts I get are a result of high wind. Other than wind I haven't lost reception a single time with Dish, and I didn't lose reception then, I just had some artifacts.

If I had a choice I would certainly go with cable, if for no other reason than Roadrunner and Vontage, but since I live in BFE we have no cable or even DSL availability.

I also like Dishnetwork's interactive features to find sport scores, local weather and other things directly.

[spiderman2k1]

Dish network I think has a better picture not then DTV not alot just little better.

As for the macro blocks the only thing that will help is HDTV. But that does not mean you will never see macro blocks.

[BrainStorm69]

Hmmm...it doesn't sounds like anything is perfect (surprise...surprise). I don't have an HDTV, so I'm still living in the SD world right now. It sounds like maybe DishNetwork is a little better/cheaper.

[Matt D]

Northcat- Seriously, If I lost signal like you claim to, I'd have been pissed too. Fortunately I almost never lose the signal, even in extreme weather like the snow and ice we got about a month ago. Dark cloudy sky, blustery winds, ice, snow and my dish acts like it's a sunny summer day.

I am not an expert on Dish, but I know I get 215 channels with DTV Premier for $93. Dish you say has 180 for $80. Less money, less channels.
America's Top 120 from Dish: 120 channels with locals $43.99. DirecTV's Total Choice: 135 channels for $41.99 WITH locals, so here Dish is actually more expensive and you get less channels.

How about NBA League pass, NHL Center Ice, NFL Sunday Ticket, and MLB Extra Innings on Dish? You just can't get them!

FYI, DirecTV was never Primestar. I had friends who had Primestar in 94, I have friends and family that have had DirecTV since 94-95. Two seperate companies. DirecTV bought out Primestar from Hughes or Warner in 1998.

[sammie]

Well, all sides seem to be covered so just my 2 cents. I've had Direct TV for about 5 years. No real problems to speak of. I did notice some macro blocking on HD channels when I upgraded. A quick check of the signal strength quickly showed me the dish was out of wack. Adjusted it back and got signal back over 90. Haven't had a problem since.

I've only seen "rain fade" once and that was when we were on the edge of a hurricaine and actually not too long before I got the HD setup, so it may have been the dish out of align there too. Nothing since, but not much rain either.

Cable here is TimeWarner and sucks completely and they hit you for almost $90 for a basic digital package. The signal strength on cable drops all the time to where you lose internet and digital completely and can only get a fuzzy analog signal, watchable but annoying.

The one thing I'd like to be able to see is more local HD. We don't even have a Fox affiliate, and there isn't a HD fox station within 300 miles. The problem is that the stupid black out rules won't let cable or satellite carry out of area network signals so no HD Superbowl and little HD regular football unless you pay for Sunday Ticket or ppv and even then the local can just call up and have it blocked (and they do a lot here).

[Matt D]

Hey Sammie, it is possible to get the east and west coast HD feeds of Fox and CBS in these select markets.

NY
LA
Chicago
Philidelphia
Boston
Dallas
DC
Detroit
Atlanta
Houston
Tampa
Cleveland
Phoenix
Denver
St. Louis
Kansas City
Milwaukee
Salt Lake City
Birmingham
Memphis
Greensboro
Austin

Even if you don't live there, you can still get them. Call DirecTV and tell them you want them, and don't take no for an answer. If one person refuses to turn them on, hang up and call back until you get someone who will do it.

[mcnabb311]

Yes you have to ask to apply for a waiver to get the local channels on DirecTV. They let me have ABC LA and New York even though I have an ABC affiliate 60 miles away.

And you are correct about all of the sports packages DirecTV offers. I don't believe you can get the NFL Ticket, College Gameday, NBA Pass, MLB extra innings, NCAA fullcourt, etc. on the dish...

[verchad]

What a can of worms this question opens up.

My two cents.

We moved into our home in mid 1998, sw chicago suburbs. Called up the local cable company, now owned by comcast. They had no special offers for us even though the house was already wired with cable. Plus their regular prices were more than Directv / Dish. Even though at that time I couldn't find a free equipment offer, we went with directv, buying our equipment. It was still cheaper over the years than cable. A few years ago we bought an upgrade to Directv with tivo built in and love it. Our total bill is $50.98 a month for Total Choice Plus package which includes 1 DTV/Tivo receiver and the monthly DVR fee. We get tons of channels, have few outages/rain fades ( we had cable at my parents and had outages all the time ).

We have turned 4 relatives into DTV subscribers, too bad it was before the referral program.

Overall, we are glad we went with satellite and not cable.

One thing to consider, the area of your house that the dish will be placed. It needs to have a clear line of sight to whichever direction the satellites are. My inlaws started having some "rain fade / picture freeze" problems. They checked and a tree had grown and was partially to blame. He then used the signal meter and reaimed the dish and the problem was solved, possibly the tree grew some and the dish might have moved slightly.

Good luck.

[musher70]

Yeah, u can get waiver...

Just tell them u are a truck driver
and dont live anywhere for
too long, u just use address to
pay bills

[lordsmurf]

My only additional comments is that DISH Network receivers are nowhere near as good as DirecTV RCA receivers. The best DISH one is about as "good" as the Directv Hughes (worst) ones. This can harm the signal. DISH may well be better, but you'd never know it with crappy receivers.

Where you live also seems to, for unknown reasons, play a part in quality. Some locations can never seem to gleam a signal better than 75% no matter what you do, while some can get 98-99% all the time.

"Digital" cable is often just digitally-compressed analog signals. Whatever that means. Not a true digital signal with set resolutions/etc. Just analog data crammed into a digital packet.

When I first had DirecTV, it really was a superior signal. Then they started to stuff the transponders, and quality is often not all that super. But still better than rabbit ears or cable.

I cancelled my satellite and got Netflix instead 13 months ago. I dropped Netflix back down to minimums and may cancel in a couple months. If that happens, I'll go right back to DirecTV. No cable, no DISH. Not unless something miraculous changes my mind. I know where the quality is.

[painkiller]

Some additional points to consider with respect to satellite (Directv and DISH), in respect to the dish sizes - neither of the major sat providers offer a dish size even close to what the FCC specifies a consumer can have and use.

The way I see it, they found the 18" to 20" size worked just fine and kept to that cheaper offering - even though a larger dish would help the customer base depending on locale and other factors.

Even though Directv is now on record as about to offer greater HD coverage due to new satellites being launched - it raises other unanswered questions.

1) what will be the positions of these new sats? will they replace the current ones at 109, 110 and whatever? I figure they'd have to else a ton of customers will need to realign their dishes.

2) will there be new and different dish offerings? sizes?

3) how will the new MPEG-4 format be a real issue for the consumer? will present decoder boxes be upgradeable or not? and, so far, I heard that Directv will somehow address current hdtv xustomers needs - but no specifics yet.

and so on.

[sammie]

Hey Sammie, it is possible to get the east and west coast HD feeds of Fox and CBS in these select markets.

NY
LA
Chicago
Philidelphia
Boston
Dallas
DC
Detroit
Atlanta
Houston
Tampa
Cleveland
Phoenix
Denver
St. Louis
Kansas City
Milwaukee
Salt Lake City
Birmingham
Memphis
Greensboro
Austin

Even if you don't live there, you can still get them. Call DirecTV and tell them you want them, and don't take no for an answer. If one person refuses to turn them on, hang up and call back until you get someone who will do it.

Actually, I've raised all sorts of Hell over it. The problem is about the only thing on Fox I typically watch is football. Unfortunately, that's covered by a contract with the NFL. The local stations get to call and pretty much black out any game they are "planning" on carrying. The problem is they can, and in the case of deep south Texas, do change their mind a few times. They always wait till it is too late for DirecTV or Cable to unblock the channel before asking them to block others. End up with 4 or 5 games blocked out every weekend.

Now I haven't tried calling up and asking them to unblock Fox away from football season. I wonder if they might be more receptive to that?? Then of course if that bleeds over to football....

[northcat_8]

Northcat- Seriously, If I lost signal like you claim to, I'd have been pissed too. Fortunately I almost never lose the signal, even in extreme weather like the snow and ice we got about a month ago. Dark cloudy sky, blustery winds, ice, snow and my dish acts like it's a sunny summer day.

I am not an expert on Dish, but I know I get 215 channels with DTV Premier for $93. Dish you say has 180 for $80. Less money, less channels.
America's Top 120 from Dish: 120 channels with locals $43.99. DirecTV's Total Choice: 135 channels for $41.99 WITH locals, so here Dish is actually more expensive and you get less channels.

Can you not read?

What I said was "I have had both...." "....similar packages with DirectTV and Dishnetwork...DirectTV = $90, Dish = $80 (with 2 receivers)" I just switched in August of 2004.

That $80 is the complete bill, receiver rental, HBO & Cinemax.

It appears that DirectTV has changed their pricing, since I had them. I had the total choice plus package plus (155 channels) HBO & Starz, that is $45.99 + $12 + $11 + receiver rental + other fees = $92.99 per month. I am sure I have an old statement laying around somewhere.

http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/programming/packages/americas_everything_pack/index.shtml

Dishnetwork's Everything Package - 180 channels + HBO + Starz + Cinemax + HBO for $81.99

Direct does not include premium channels.

and as per you saying you have never lost signal...well to be honest, I simply to do not believe that. The dish is too small, a gust of wind will disrupt the signal just from the size of the dish and the narrow margin of error from the parabola to focus...or dish to feedhorn. No way you or anyone else kept reception during a hurricane unless you were not in one. The cable companies lost signal on their 10 ft industrial satalite dishes but the 12" DirectTV dish didn't?? There is no way that I would lose a signal with heavy cloud cover and you not lose it in a hurricane.

How about NBA League pass, NHL Center Ice, NFL Sunday Ticket, and MLB Extra Innings on Dish? You just can't get them!

True. Dish does not offer those...yet.

FYI, DirecTV was never Primestar. I had friends who had Primestar in 94, I have friends and family that have had DirecTV since 94-95. Two seperate companies. DirecTV bought out Primestar from Hughes or Warner in 1998.

Thanks for the history lesson. Look dude, I didn't have friends who were customers, I WAS THE CUSTOMER. I know DirectTV bought Primestar, I was there when Jerry came and changed the dish in my yard, my mother took the primestar dish and turned it into a flower/vine pot. I have been a customer of Primestar, DirectTV and Dishnetwork....and all I am saying is if someone is buying today...Dishnetwork is the provider to go with, you don't have to believe me, I don't care, you're not spending my money.

Whether they or you listen to me, doesn't really matter, I've had both and I'm tellin you and everyone else point blank, Dish is the better service.

and I won't even get into mistakes in programming made on a regular basis by Direct. Or the fact you have to pay extra for Network TV (CBS,NBC,FOX,PBS) and even then they are out of California or Boston and not local.

[ebenton]

I don't have satellite. I have Bright House (formerly Time Warner) digital cable with HD service here in Central Florida. I have a 42" HDTV. I pay around $100 per month for all the HD I can get from them (Showtime, HBO, local network-affiliate channels, InHD, HDNet, ESPN-HD, Discovery HD, TNT-HD. I could pay about $120 if I wanted cable internet service (I have DSL instead). All together, about 16 HD channels. Not as many as you could get with Voom (if it were still operating) or maybe some other satellite services. However, Bright House does have one thing which I have not *yet* been able to find with satellite - an HD DVR. ($6.00 a month). The picture is almost always good (nothing is perfect always) and InHD1 and InHD2 are only available on cable.
So far, I have not found a good reason to switch to satellite.

[sammie]

and as per you saying you have never lost signal...well to be honest, I simply to do not believe that. The dish is too small, a gust of wind will disrupt the signal just from the size of the dish and the narrow margin of error from the parabola to focus...or dish to feedhorn. No way you or anyone else kept reception during a hurricane unless you were not in one. The cable companies lost signal on their 10 ft industrial satalite dishes but the 12" DirectTV dish didn't?? There is no way that I would lose a signal with heavy cloud cover and you not lose it in a hurricane.

A couple of things, I agree that if you are in a full hurricaine you would almost certainly lose signal. I was at the edge of a minor one and had signal degradation, white dots zipping around, occasional freezes and macroblocks, but I didn't lose the signal totally. Now I do have the 23" oval dish, so I don't know if that is significantly better than the regular 18" (I really haven't ever seen a 12"?). Also, it does matter where you are in the country. A sloppily aimed dish in southern California still got 95+ on the signal. Here in south Texas, the best you can do is about 92.

I think one thing you may be missing on the big commercial dishes is wind loading. The wind loading forces on commercial dishes can be phenomonal. My guess is that many local cable dish farms are going to vary widely as to how structurally solid their dishes are. A smaller dish that is installed close to the house, potentially on a side protected from the prevailing storm winds might well be fairly immune to wind effect except for in the extreme. I have to have cable here for internet and local stations, and I did for several years in California as well. I can say that in my experience, cable almost always loses or degrades signal before I see any problems with my satellite. Now I will absolutely grant you that Time Warner here totaly sucks and has a very poor signal all the time so I might be a bit of an outlier, but my experience was pretty much the same in So. Cal.

I have no idea on the pricing. When I first went satellite, DirectTV worked out a bit cheaper for the channels I wanted, but not enough difference to matter. It was stictly a case of my viewing prefernces matched Direct's better and I had to order an extra something to get what I wanted on Dish. To be honest though, it was more the availability of the sports packages that caused my choice.

My neighbor down the street has Dish. I helped her redo a bad install job, which was causing some definite reception issues. Overall, once it was set up right I can't see too much difference quality. We both have HD plasma screens so it was a pretty fair comparison, although it's obviously hard to really compare pictures 5 houses apart. My recollection is that Direct specs out a bit higher than Dish, but that is pretty much equalizing as Direct crams in more channels. I've heard what Lord Smurf is saying about equipment diffenences, but I don't have any first hand experience to go on there. But one thing I'd say adversely impacts picture way more than anything else is the quality of the install. Stable mount on the dish, clear view to the satellite, correct pointing, RG-6 vs RG-59 coax even how long the coax run is. I've helped several people with problems on their satellite and it's almost always been do to a sloppy install regardless of which system.