Do all DVD Recorders create low-detail copies?

[tac7]

Being new to DVD recording, I thought I'd buy a basic model first, to familiarize myself before spending big bucks on a high-end HDD model. Having done tons of analog Hi8 -> SVHS transfers in the past, I see now that even a third generation SVHS copy has a lot more detail than a first generation DVD, even when the DVD is copied in HQ / 720x480 mode.

Question is - do all the consumer recorders out there create washed-out copies like this, or did I simply make the wrong choice in temporarily getting a LiteOn 5005? The resolution selected (HQ or SP) is equally bad, unless LP or EP is chosen, which then is obviously even worse. Copies made from a superb, clean Hi8 or SVHS master look worse on HQ DVD than SP VHS. While probably looking very "smooth and clean" to some people, in reality, there is absolutely no detail left, so I wonder if this is deliberately done as part of some supposed noise filtering (which some people may find pleasing to the eye), or are present-day DVD recorders still not up to delivering better copies?

I have unfortunately not been able to compare copies made by different brands, so hence my question if a Sony or Panasonic model would likely be making better copies. Some people here have mentioned JVC being very "clean" looking, while Philips is supposed to be "grainy," but I'm really worried that this "clean" look may be synonymous with being "washed-out," while the "grainy" look could (hopefully) mean more detail.

For those who have owned different brands, what is your take on this? I'm no longer worried at this point about all the other quirks various models have, but simply the QUALITY of the video copy, since I feel that I'm wasting my time transferring my home video collection to DVD, because at that quality, I would never want to watch it later. *-tac7

[DaveS]

something sounds wrong ... you should be able to get very decent results, in general, with a DVD recorder. You may want to check posts here for your model for any tips..could be that your 5005 is giving results that are comprable to it's price, although I don't have any experience with that one ...I've used a sony for a while and the results are excellent, been very happy w/ it

[DaveS]

by the way - recent post w/ some info on the 5005 ... there are probably other recent posts in addition to this one...

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=266324

[gshelley61]

Although I have no experience with the Lite-On unit, it uses LSI encoding chips which are very good. All the name brand DVD recorders I've checked out and tested provide excellent quality duplications of the source in the 1 hour XP mode... virtually identical to the original.

Some machines do have noise reduction filtering on the analog video input, but you can turn it off in the setup menu of several models. Even with the filtering on, I haven't seen a great loss of detail... mostly chroma noise and grain are suppressed (which is very helpful for MPEG2 since it is generally undesirable to encode noise).

The "washed out" issue probably has to do with black level setup. Your source tapes are NTSC 7.5 IRE, correct? Digital video (and compliant DVD-Video format MPEG2) are 0 IRE. Unless I'm mistaken, the Lite-On does not have input black level correction for 7.5 IRE sources. You would need to use a proc amp in between to adjust your source black level to 0 IRE for a proper DVD encode with the Lite-On. This black level adjustment is not necessary for MiniDV, Digital8 or other most digital video sources because they are already at 0 IRE.

The Pioneer DVD recorders all have numerous video input (and output) adjustments including black level, luma, video noise reduction, detail, chroma and hue. You can shut off the noise reduction and set the input black level to 7.5 IRE (the DVD recorder will automatically stretch the black level down to 0 IRE). You can even tweak up the detail a little bit to enhance the sharpness of your source a bit. In the 1 hour XP recording mode, your copy will look just like the source tape.

[tac7]

Thanks for all the comments.
Perhaps I should clarify. The problems I am having with loss of detail is mostly related to faster-moving scenes, for which additional Time Base Correction (which I occasionally use) doesn't help. *However the source tapes and VCRs used to record from (Sony EV-S7000 Hi8 & SLV-R5 SVHS), are as close to broadcast quality as consumer gear gets.

When comparing the original, and a HQ DVD copy made, low detail scenes are quite comparable, but fast-moving scenes show NONE of the details of the original source - which even a regular-quality SP VHS copy is able to show to some degree. *Granted, unlike with some other models reported, I have not seen ANY macroblocks with the LiteOn 5005 when recording in HQ or SP mode, which appears to be a big plus, but the same technology may be the reason for suppressing detail.

When using digital sources for copying, the image is already compressed, so that is likely the reason why there is little difference in detail, however most of my source material is of very high-quality analog (uncompressed) material.

Not sure whether the next generation *HD* DVD recorders are the answer, since it appears that the rate of compression and related technology used could well be the reason why this problem may not be resolved. ***-tac7