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Poll: What hardware do you use for capturing analog video

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  1. According to the capture card specs on here, the hauppauge 250/350 capture in either ntsc or pal, do both.
    PAL/NTSC problem solver.
    USED TO BE A UK Equipment owner., NOW FINISHED WITH VHS CONVERSIONS-THANKS
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  2. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Mine shows the ADVC-100 as AVC Compliant DV Device.

    Yes we are testing realtime capture and MPeg2 encoding.

    The default settings on my Mainconcept PVR Demo @ 720x480 DVD max performance is pressuring the 2.4GHz Celeron in the high 90's CPU performance. I notice this product does not offer 352x480 which would be ideal for VHS.

    My ULead Video Studio 8 (using the Mainconcept MPeg2 encoder with 704x480 7,000 Kbps VBR Mpg audio 224Kbps) runs around 55-70 CPU % with good quality. This results in about 90-120 min per DVD.

    You are going to need a very fast processor to realtime encode 4hrs to 4.4GB in realtime with any quality. My goal is good quality at 2 hours or better quality at 1 hour.

    Mainconcept PVR Demo is not running as efficiently as ULead VS8 so far. Also I don't see the buffer working. In the Custom MPeg2 DVD Advanced settings I've set similar settings to the ULead but it is not running as efficiently so far.

    Next I'll try Cyberlink Power Director 3.
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  3. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Cyberlink Power Director 3.

    720x480 good quality runs 72-74% CPU with no drops.

    Highest Quality MPeg2 @ 704x480 8,000 Kbps CBR results in 74-86% CPU but some buffering is going on.
    It will take a longer test but so far it's a contender.

    You will need to do your own tests.
    What CPU are you running again?

    ------
    Good that dual standard PVR is available. That is your alternative.

    ------
    OK DVD (Highest speed default) = 8,000Kbps CBR runs 80-90% on the 2.4GHz Celeron without drops

    DVD (Highest Quality default)= VBR 8500 max 4000 min runs 89-96% on the 2.4GHz Celeron without drops for a HBO movie source.

    Same settings with a fast action basketball game ran it up to 100% with frame drops. You would need a faster processor or reduce quality. A basketball game is probably the worse case test for a realtime encoder since they are fast panning and zooming at the same time.

    Overall the Mainconcept encoder in ULead Video Studio 8 seems to work most efficiently realtime and with good quality. The Power Director 3 MPeg2 encoder probably could be tweaked to work with this processor. A faster machine would handle either encoder in realtime.
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  4. Sorry, No I am not trying to capture 4 hours to fit it all onto a dvd, just for the ability to leave a vcr alone to capture the whole lot at once.

    Be interesting what you think of Cyberlink agains the other two you've tried.
    I am still getting the pixelated effect, you know that sort of plastci film look.

    Thanks again for all the help, I now see that Happauge comes in two formats, one for pal, one for ntsc.
    PAL/NTSC problem solver.
    USED TO BE A UK Equipment owner., NOW FINISHED WITH VHS CONVERSIONS-THANKS
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  5. not much is said of Canopus Lets edit 2, that captures to mpeg?
    PAL/NTSC problem solver.
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  6. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by victoriabears
    Sorry, No I am not trying to capture 4 hours to fit it all onto a dvd, just for the ability to leave a vcr alone to capture the whole lot at once.
    OK that should be possible.

    Originally Posted by victoriabears
    Be interesting what you think of Cyberlink agains the other two you've tried.
    I am still getting the pixelated effect, you know that sort of plastci film look.
    I added some additional results above. I still don't know what your CPU is. If it's faster than that Celeron, you should be able to get it working.
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  7. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by victoriabears
    not much is said of Canopus Lets edit 2, that captures to mpeg?
    You would need to try Procoder Express but I've never heard anyone claim that it will realtime encode.
    http://www.canopus.us/US/products/procoder_express/pm_procoder_express.asp
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  8. For really good results, I use my Sony DCR-PC101 Camcorders Passthrough.
    I do believe it's IRE is different as commented by EdDV from talking to others on the forum and getting different results from that DV checkbox on TMPGenc. So I recommend you test on your system to make sure your results are satisfactory. I think to lighten/brighten up the video I leave it unchecked. I doesn't match the source perfectly, but still looks great.
    Think I read Procoder handles this automatically, but could be wrong.

    For quick captures I use my Hauppauge PVR-150, but been on hold until they can produce a driver that doesn't clip audio, and keeps the picture quality that the card is capable of.
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  9. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
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    It really depends...

    My favorite card is my Asus 7700. I use it for the things I really care to convert to DVD.

    VHS/SVHS/LD to DVD that I care: I capture with my Asus 7700 deluxe, after I link the signal to my ACE video enchancer. I capture with latest virtualdub and then I filter (rmPAL, Static noise reduction, Dynamic noise reduction, msu_smartsharpen, etc) while I frameserving to latest TMPGenc 2.5, so to encode to mpeg 2. Mostly 1/2 D1 that way

    VHS/SVHS I need to convert fast to mpeg 2: I use one of my bt8xxx cards (Kworld or Hauppauge) with the btwincap drivers and mainconcept 1.4.2. The day mainconcept fix the statering "bug" when you use 1/2 D1 framesize as mpeg 2 output, is the day I gonna switch all my realtime mpeg 2 projects to this method!

    For analogue capture of DVB channels (the case of sky digital or DVB channels like "Enter TV" Ukrain, the rare ones I'm not able to capture direct), I use my Hauppauge PVR250. Only at 720 x 576 (anything else shows me a blured uneacceptable image) with about 3100 average bitrate. (few macroblocks that way, not worst the source!)

    Of course I grabb a lot direct DVB streams, using my trusty Nokia 9600 with DVB 2000 and DVB Recorder 1.19d

    Rarelly, I use for the same task my Dreambox 5260 DVB reciever (Hydra firmware) or my Sky Star 2 PCI card (progDVB). But I can do better (and faster!) job with my Nokia, so I mostly use those to learn the "How to" of the proccess, not so much for the things I have to grabb!

    For a short time I had a canopus 50 and it was great. Unfortunatelly, the bug with mainconcept also affects those cards when you convert realtime DV to mpeg 2, so it was useless for me and I gave it to a friend of mine some months ago (where that kid is now? Hmmm I have to give him a call!)
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  10. Good ol' Hauppauge WINTV-FM (BT878 based). However, Hauppauge drivers and software are garbage, so I threw them away and chose BTWincap drivers and third-party software. I would be hard-pressed to find a better value with top quality.
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    I use a Pinnacle DC1000 for all of my VHS, Beta, and DVD capture. (Jerry-rigged a better breakout box, so I'll use it to capture Beta-SP or component too if ever the need arises).

    I have a Radeon AIW 7500 for capturing television shows -- although I no longer use it. It's way easier to just download television shows (many captured in HD) from the internet. Why go to the effort to capture and edit out commercials, when hundreds of other people are already doing it out there, and offering the results for free.

    I'm not sure how the copyright laws work concerning t.v. programs. I'm allowed to record a television show off t.v. for my own viewing pleasure, but am I allowed to download that same recorded t.v. show from the internet (again, simply for my own viewing pleasure).

    I'll do it till told otherwise in a court of law.

    Keith.
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  12. VH Veteran jimmalenko's Avatar
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    ADVC-100


    Previously a Pinnacle DC10+.
    If in doubt, Google it.
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  13. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by victoriabears
    The mainconept capture was very jerky, my first experience of that cpu overload you mentioned?
    Mainconcept capture mode in the encoder, or the PVR software, are crap. It's pure software encoding, super high CPU load, and it's settings are buggy. It was obviously developed for PAL too, not NTSC. Lots of bugs in it, and their MC forums are full of unanswered complaints.

    If you get an ADVC device, resign yourself to the fact is only does DV-AVI and nothing else. Re-encode to MPEG later. If you need MPEG capture, get a device optimized for it, like Hauppauge, ATI ... or if you have more money, some of the RT cards that are MPEG hardware. Or a DVD recorder.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
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  14. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Originally Posted by victoriabears
    The mainconept capture was very jerky, my first experience of that cpu overload you mentioned?
    Mainconcept capture mode in the encoder, or the PVR software, are crap. It's pure software encoding, super high CPU load, and it's settings are buggy. It was obviously developed for PAL too, not NTSC. Lots of bugs in it, and their MC forums are full of unanswered complaints.
    That is an overstated critique of the Mainconcept realtime capability. As stated above I find it more than acceptable using a DV source (ADVC) from a good cable box (S-Video out to the ADVC) using a 2.4GHz Celeron and ULead Video Studio 8's presets (DVD 7,000 Kbps VBR, MPeg audio 224 Kbps).

    It produces very good 480i DVD's from SDTV or HDTV channels. In other words, a quality image in gets you a quality DVD MPeg2 in realtime ready for commercial chopping or direct DVD burning. Alternate encoding presets allow DVD spec MPeg1 as well for > 4hr. utility recording (e.g. 1850 Kbps Mpeg1 video, MPeg2 224Kbps 48k audio).

    I agree with your opinion that it isn't the best solution for VHS dubs since the 352x480 mode has flaws in the current version. I just use 704x480 for now or the ATI AIW card.

    Speaking of ATI All-in-Wonder, the analog tuner is second rate compared to a current generation cable box (currently using Comcast's Motorola DCT-6200 HD tuner). Maybe the new ATI TV WONDER™ ELITE technology will be better with its 3D comb filter. We shall see.

    I will eventually move to a standalone DVD recorder but only when the hard disk contents are directly accessable for computer editing. I like to edit before burning the DVD.


    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    If you get an ADVC device, resign yourself to the fact is only does DV-AVI and nothing else. Re-encode to MPEG later. If you need MPEG capture, get a device optimized for it, like Hauppauge, ATI ... or if you have more money, some of the RT cards that are MPEG hardware. Or a DVD recorder.
    Again an overstatement.

    Each device has pro and con. Pick the one that matches your needs.

    I find the ADVC is useful for a variety of tasks unrelated to TV or VHS capture. I park it on the cable box as a secondary use.

    I like the PVR-250 and plan to pick up one or two on ebay for use with Beyond TV 3.

    I like the idea of a DVD standalone recorder but there are few things that I record that I don't want to edit before burning. Current recorders are clunky for editing. I'll wait for that firewire or USB2 accessable HDD model.

    As for the ATI AIW, I use it for low quality TV recording and VHS dubs.

    The brooktree boards get little use because I just don't have the time to mess with 3-4 step multi-hour DVD authoring processes. My high quality DVD work gets done in DV format using Premiere or Vegas 5 + Architect 2.

    Different strokes for different folks.
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  15. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Rip DVD-RW or DVD+RW media to a computer from a DVD recorder and edit that way. Easier to do.
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  16. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    It (Mainconcept) was obviously developed for PAL too, not NTSC. Lots of bugs in it, and their MC forums are full of unanswered complaints.
    Way beyond fair.

    Mainconcept's Mpeg2 encoder is basically an OEM product with an extensive software developers kit (SDK). The SDK has many more handles and options than you find in the end product custom settings menus. Many quality companies ( http://www.mainconcept.com/company.shtml ) use it as a foundation which can be tweaked to match the technical and licencing needs for their end products.

    The following companies use the Mainconcept MPeg2 SDK under their encoding products

    Adobe (Premiere, Premiere Pro, Encore)
    Discreet (Cleaner XL)
    Lumière HD (HDV encoder for Final Cut Pro)
    Sony (Vegas, DVD Architect)
    Sorenson (Squeeze™ 3.5 Compression Suite)
    ULead (DVD Movie Factory, Video Studio, DVD Workshop, Media Studio Pro)

    The realtime modes in the SDK are used in many pro transmission and conversion products

    Microsoft's TV Foundation Edition (a VOD and Interactive TV broadcasting product)
    Quantel’s Gateway
    ROOT6 Technology's ContentAgent-XR
    Video Technics, Inc.'s Apella clip servers
    Telestream's FlipFactory

    Each of these companies implement the SDK with their own customizations and optimizations. That is why ULead's Video Studio realtime MPeg2 optimization can be different than Mainconcept's own PVR product.
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  17. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
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    Mainconcept 1.4.2 captures well realtime to mpeg 2. But that bug it has when you output to 352 x 576, it makes it practically useless for CPUs less than 2.8Ghz!

    I can capture 768 x 576 and output to 352 x 576 mpeg 2 realtime using my Duron 1200.
    On the other hand, I can't capture at 720 x 576 using my Athlon XP 2600 without framedrops. I have to de-activate all the settings that boost the picture quality just to keep them low (one here and there). No lipsynch issues through!

    Mainconcept has great potention and if next version fix that stupid stuttering bug at the bottom of the screen, it's gonna be the ultimate solution IMO for software realtime mpeg 2 grabs!
    When I compare the picture I get from Mainconcept and from Hauppauge PVR 250 (with all the tweaks etc), the difference is like the difference of CVD to 704 x 576! Huge difference!
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  18. http://www.canopus.us/US/products/Lets_CONVERT/pm_lets_CONVERT.asp

    cannot see this in the tools section, opinion anyone?
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  19. Member edDV's Avatar
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    It looks like a variation (subset) of Procoder.
    I wish I had a demo copy.
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  20. Member
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    I use an ADS pyro A/V link and a Latin American Panasonic DMR-E55. Both devices are able to capture NTSC or PAL. Just play the NTSC/PAL movie in my Apex AD-5131 or Realmagic Hollywood+ and record. Sometimes I capture TV show with an ATI 8500DV.
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