I think the calculators are broken, or I'm retarded...

[TMcD]

I've tried two of the calculatros found on this site. The Java one and the downloadable FitCD.

I'm trying to put 54 mins. on to a 80 minute CDR. w/audio @ 160.

The calculations they both give me are a bit differnt, but I tested both.. to make along story short.

I have 14 files that make up the 54 minutes. (All basically the same size.) Converting 1 using the calculations made by the calculators becomes this size: 64,768.

Here is my calculated math:

14 * 64,768 (I'll round down to 64) -- 14*64 = 896.

Now how is 896 supposed to fin onto a size 800 CDR?

Is it me or are there any "working" calculators out there?

Troy

[BenzBen]

I am pretty sure when burning audio or video, it goes by minutes, not MB. Therefore you would still have an extra 20 mins on a standard CD.

[TMcD]

Can anyone verify this?

I thought a SVCD (or VCD) is considered data. ???

Thanks,
Troy

[bewley]

I can absolutely verify that VCD and SVCD's are NOT written as data discs. My 80 minute (700 MB) CD-R's can hold ~820 MB's of MPEG video.

What BenzBen says applies only to a standard VCD (which is true that a 74 minute video fits on a 74 minute CD-R)... Once you start playing around with XVCD and SVCD, however, then you will have to go back to the size of the file.

I hope this helps.

[TMcD]

bewley,

Ok.

Though the fact that one is "standard" and XVCD/XSVCD are not, and goes from using minutes to actual data size.. logically doesn't make sense to me.

Anyone else have FACTS on this?

Thanks,
Troy

P.S. I meant to say 80min CDR/700 MB. in previous post.

[Stinky]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-13 11:34:39, TMcD wrote:
Anyone else have FACTS on this?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know where to find it on the web - but VCD has it's own 'file format' therefore isn't bound by the 'fat' standard for data storage. So a 740meg cd-r is 740meg of fat file system and something more with VCD file system.

[BenzBen]

Kinda off topic, but after I burned my VCD, I popped it in my computer and took a look at it through My computer.
The computer says that it's only 1.15 MB (something like that). But if you look at the written part of the disk, you can tell that a majority of the disk has been written on. Also, I play the .DAT file, and the whole movie is there. Maybe this has something to do with this.

[bewley]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-13 11:34:39, TMcD wrote:
bewley,

Ok.

Though the fact that one is "standard" and XVCD/XSVCD are not, and goes from using minutes to actual data size.. logically doesn't make sense to me.

Anyone else have FACTS on this?

Thanks,
Troy

P.S. I meant to say 80min CDR/700 MB. in previous post.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

OK, let me explain this again...

Actually BOTH go by size... It just happens to work out that a standard VCD equals about 10 MB's per minute. Since you can put ~740 MB's of MPEG video on a 74 minute CD (and ~800 MB's on an 80 minute disc), then you can just say that standard VCD's are in time scale to make it easy. Since you want FACTS, then this is called the White Book standard and you may find more info here: http://www.disctronics.co.uk/cdref/cdbooks/whitebook.htm .

XVCD's and SVCD's do not follow the formula as they may have any combination of MB's per minute. One must use a rate calculator to compute the bit rate that will best fill the media. This brings us back to your original problem... Have you tried encoding your 14 files and then loading them all into a program like Nero? You may be surprised to find that it works for you...

Good luck,

_________________
- bewley

baby bewley's Eclectic [mp3PRO] Rock
http://www.live365.com/stations/230630


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bewley on 2001-12-13 12:11:59 ]</font>

[VidGuy]

VCDs and SVCDs are stores as CD XA Mode 2 data, not standard Mode 1 data.

http://www.disctronics.co.uk/cdref/cd-rom/cdxafmt.htm
has a good description.

Mode 1 data uses 2048 bytes of data with 284 bytes of ECC while mode 2 uses 2324 bytes of data (with 8 bytes of subheader).

Therefore, a 700 MB data CD will hold about

700 * 2324/2048 = 794 MB. (it's actually about 815-820 MB)

Video CDs happen to be conveniently defined such that the # minutes of the CD = # of minutes of the Video CD.

(1150 video + 224 audio) * 80 minutes * 60 secs/min =
824,400K.

There's probably a factor of 1.024 in here somewhere, but you get the idea.....

[TMcD]

Is there an XSVCD calculator?

Thanks,
Troy

[bewley]

Both FitCD and the Java bit rate app you used are VCD/XVCD/SVCD/XSVCD calculators.

Once a VCD strays away from the standard -- 352x240/1150 vid/224 aud -- it is considered an XVCD.

Good luck,

[TMcD]

bewley,

Thanks for the reply. So there is no such thing as an XSVCD, only SVCD?

Thanks,
Troy

[bewley]

In my post I said:

"Both FitCD and the Java bit rate app you used are VCD/XVCD/SVCD/***XSVCD*** calculators."

OK, to make this as clear as possible:

A "standard" VCD is defined as such:

Video: MPEG-1, 1150 kbit, 352 x 240 NTSC, 352 x 288 PAL
Audio: MPEG-1 Layer II, fixed at 224 kbps

A "standard" SVCD is defined as such:

Video: MPEG-2, up to 2600 kbit, 480 x 480 NTSC, 480 x 576 PAL
Audio: MPEG-1 Layer II, from 32 to 384 kbps

If your MPEG does not fit one of those specs (either by resolution or bit rate), it is considered the "X" varient -- XVCD or XSVCD.

Does this help?

_________________
- bewley

baby bewley's Eclectic [mp3PRO] Rock
http://www.live365.com/stations/230630


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bewley on 2001-12-13 14:02:08 ]</font>

[TMcD]

bewley,

Thanks for explaining the "X" variant.

The Java calc:
http://www.vcdhelp.com/calc.htm

Does not have an option for XSVCD, only XVCD.

FitCD only has XVCD in the MPEG Resizing section.

XSVCD is no where to be seen in either tool.

Troy

[BenzBen]

I think the only difference between XVCD and XSVCD is higher bitrate.
I think XSVCD is up to 9.5Mpbs.

[bewley]

Correct! That is because an XSVCD is *usually* not determined by bit rate -- unless you plan to pump the bit rate up over 2600 kbit. It is generally determined as an MPEG2 with a resolution that is not standard -- popular NTSC XSVCD sizes being 704x480, 352x480 (also called 1/2 DVD), and 352x240. If you want to test this, go into FitCD and set your time... Then go to the Destination Size and change the options. Notice that the bit rate never changes.

All a bit rate calculator does is tell you the amount of bits per second you can use to fill up a CD. This is not influenced at all by the size or type of the destination file... No matter what resolution you choose, you are still capped at x number of kbits per second. However, the resolution does make a difference when it comes to the quality of the resulting output. For example, 480x480 (SVCD) @ 1000 kbit will likely look "blockier" than 352x240 (XSVCD) @ 1000 kbit. However, a still scene at 480x480 will usually look much sharper than a still scene at 352x240.

Also, note that the Java application caps out at around 2500 kbit. I believe this was done as most home DVD plays have great difficulty handling MPEGs with a bit rate greater than this as the drives read CD's at 2x speed.

[bewley]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-13 14:29:34, BenzBen wrote:
I think the only difference between XVCD and XSVCD is higher bitrate.
I think XSVCD is up to 9.5Mpbs.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

An XVCD is an MPEG-1 file with a max of ~3500 (I *think*) kbit.

An XSVCD is an MPEG-2 file with a ~9500 kbit.

The important part is the MPEG-1 versus MPEG-2.


_________________
- bewley

baby bewley's Eclectic [mp3PRO] Rock
http://www.live365.com/stations/230630

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bewley on 2001-12-13 14:51:33 ]</font>

[TMcD]

bewley,

You said:

All a bit rate calculator does is tell you the amount of bits per second you can use to fill up a CD.

-----

Exactly. And I haven't found one the will tell me how high I can go with XSVCD (352 X 480).

That's what I am trying to figure out.

Troy

[kinneera]

You're missing the point...just use the SVCD calculator - it works for XSVCD. The resolution doesn't matter. Bitrate means exactly that: the rate of bits per second of video. The only impact that resolution has is to determine how many of those bits can be applied to a certain area. At the same bitrate, a 352x480 video will produce the same size file as a 720x480, or 352x240, or a 2x2, or 2000x2000 for that matter.

[bewley]

I have already explained that 352x480 is the same as 1/2 DVD several posts above:

"popular NTSC XSVCD sizes being 704x480, 352x480 (also called 1/2 DVD), and 352x240"

Go to FixCD and set the Destination Size dropdown box to 1/2 DVD -- viola! 352x480 in the Destination Size fields... And that size DOES NOT matter when it comes to amount of bits per second...

As far as a MAXIMUM bit rate goes, that is up to you and your equipment. Most DVD players gag and choke at 2600 - 3500 kbit. You could try different bit rates and see what works for you... I think you can go up to 9500 if it makes you happy -- however you will only get ~10 minutes per 80 minute disc... How do I know? I just checked in FitCD!

Good luck,

- bewley


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bewley on 2001-12-13 15:58:58 ]</font>