The end of analog TV ??

[Gurm]

People - you're all deluded!

Joe Sixpack and his wife Suzy Homemaker have NOT got $1000 to drop on a TV, when the one they have works already! They have bills, rent, and kids. They're lucky to scrounge up $200 to take down to Walmart and buy the Goldstar special!

Then they have to buy a $100 tuner?

Are you on crack?

Join the real world, here!

This will never pass because only geeks buy a new TV they don't need just to have the capability to watch a format that isn't being broadcast!

You want HDTV on cable? It's an extra $20 a month - on TOP of the cost of the tuner box! Most people only pay a total of $30 for first-tier analogue, with no tuner!

[hudsonf]

I'm going keep my analog tvs until I need to replace them or I see a really great sale. When I do buy a HD TV I'm going wide screen.Hopefully the prices will be down by then. I guess our old capture cards, vcrs, dvdrs and portable tvs will be junk. I can't wait to go broke replacing every thing.

[Gurm]

I'm going keep my analog tvs until I need to replace them or I see a really great sale. When I do buy a HD TV I'm going wide screen.Hopefully the prices will be down by then. I guess our old capture cards, vcrs, dvdrs and portable tvs will be junk. I can't wait to go broke replacing every thing.

Exactly. It'll never happen. It's like congress passing a law that everyone now has to own a car that runs on solar power - it'd be completely ignored, and in all likelihood would never pass to begin with, because it's absurd. The percentage of people with TV's that can do this is very small. Point in fact is that when they initially passed this resolution, 2006 was a long ways off. Y'know, like the Jetsons was set in the far-away year of 1984. LOL.

[Richard_G]

Seems to me that the problem is that it isn't already out there. In the UK we've had off air, digital terrestrial broadcasts for about 4 or 5 years running alongside the analogue. Initially you had to have a separate receiver box and integrated TVs were very few, expensive and new technology. Now, they are common. My 32" Sony Integrated digital widescreen TV cost under half what the equivalent model would have cost me two years ago and only slightly more than the non-digital version. The prices have come down because demand has gone up. I now use the separate digital receiver to feed the TV in the bedroom and my AIW for off air captures. The problem in the US would seem to be, as Gurm says, nobody will buy a TV to watch something that isn't there yet.

and that's where your problem lies. Rather than run the two systems side by side to give people the opportunity to change over gradually and turn analogue off when there's very little demand for it, they've got to be convinced to buy something that, at the moment, they don't need.

[hudsonf]

New tecnology such as this needs to be phased in slowly over a period of years. Not dropped on you over night! The first thing that they need to do is stop selling analog products. That way when we replace our tvs etc. we will be buying the new tech products. Phase in the new and phase out the old is the only way most people will be able to afford new technology.

[BJ_M]

phased in slowly over a period of years

doesnt work in the USA , witness converting to the metric system and coins instead of paper for small currencies ...


sure not going to work for HDTV

[hudsonf]

One difference though. Now your hitting people where it hurts. "In The Wallet"

[cal_tony]

I remember when the U.S. was going to change from SAE specs to Metric. It was advertised heavily for years that the change was on the way. Stores began carrying Metric wrenches with notices the new spec was on the way. It never happened but at least the govt. started preparing people for the change years in advance.
With this change to the digital spec. it seems that Mums the word. No ads, no signs at electronic stores, no TV stations telling people of the change, nothing. Doing a search of my local TV web sites, I found pitiful information regarding the new changeover.
I have no idea how or when this new to digital conversion will take place but I do know that for the last few years and up til today most people just don't know what the conversion means so they continue to buy their standard analog TV's. wasting their money on a technology that the Govt. says will be extinguished in 2006.
If the change is written in stone, the Govt. needs to step up and begin preparing people. OTA digital is already avail. to 3/4 of this countries population but where are the conversion boxes? Not in any of the stores that I've been to lately.
If the change is on the way, why no requirement that analog TV's mfg. now include a Digital tuner?
It seems that so far very little preparation has been done to assure a smooth transition.

[adam]

Gurm you must really live in the sticks man. There are plenty of HDTV's under $400 and for the last freakin' time you don't have to buy a new tv and you certainly don't have to buy an HDTV. You can buy a tuner or just a regular digital tv and once again, as the article states, the cutoff date will force manufacturers to start making cheaper non-HDTV digital sets to accommodate people who aren't willing to spend more than a few hundred dollars on a new tv.

A few years ago when the cutoff date was announced broadcast stations complained that it would cost $300-500 to include capable tuners into existing analogue tv models. The manufacturers of the actual tuners and actual tv's came out and said it'd be more like $30. Within the next year we could easily see tuners on the market for truly nominal amounts (~$20-50) which is about the same as a good quality powered antenna (rabbit ears) runs right now anyway. That is not too much of an inconvenience for people to replace their antenna instead of their tv, its just a matter of getting the equipment cheap enough.

As for the 85% statistics get real. 85% of the population was on cable and satellite 3 years ago. The only reason the number of users hasn't gone up is because there has been such an increase in the subscription price. If you don't trust the FCC's statistics then look them up and see how they calcuated them. They are public records. The people who only get tv via over the air broadcasts are in the extreme minority and are mostly very low income families who the advertisers don't really make money off of anyway. Its sad but true but non-subscription service tv is a business like anything else and if a small percentage of the viewers aren't in anyone's demographic then they are expendable.

Its not a matter of _if_ this legislation passes, its a matter of it being passed, or rather enforced, now or later. Its only a matter of time.

[adam]

I just helped my mom buy a new tv, and my dad buy two. Everywhere we went (3 major cities) we saw nothing but digital sets and the salesmen all made a point to tell us about the cutoff date in an effort to convince us to buy a tv that day. Its their #1 sales pitch. In all of the Conns in my area they have signs on all the tv's describing the cutoff date. I think they are doing a pretty good job of getting the word out.

[TheFamilyMan]

As mentioned, the american marketplace will dictate when analog TV is dead. When the price of a decent size HDTV set gets in the $200-$300 range, the average Joe will buy it when his out set craps out.

My wife and I just bought a Toshiba 27" analog set for $230 whose picture quality knocks the socks off our now dead 27" Mitusbishi for which we paid over $800 13 years ago. We knew about the digital TV "deadline" but figured this set would last us until HDTV sets come down in price. Besides, people use their sets for more than watching broadcast TV. A HDTV will not make a DVD look better; in some cases I've seen, it makes it look worst! And what about those VHS tapes....

[BJ_M]

tv's (used to) should last at least 20 years .. 15 at the least .. and a new power supply is only about 75$-$150 (what usually goes first)

[oldfart13]

Was in Wal-Mart (Canada) today and saw a nice 42" HDTV projection TV for $1,500CAD and an equally nice 32" Sanyo SD TV for $300CAD. Which one do you think is going to be out of stock more?? Which one do you think will be gone by 5:00 PM today? It's not a hard decision to make...

My Mum needs a new TV to fall asleep to. That's what a lot of older folks do with theirs...the news, then beddy-bye. What senior is going to blow $1,500 on a set to fall asleep to when there is a perfectly good set available for under $300 that will serve the same purpose and fit into their small apartment? And there are a lot of seniors out there to convince, as well as a lot of Boomers and Gen Xers who aren't going to buy into it....

[Gurm]

Adam, I'd love to know which "major cities" you went to that had ONLY digital TV's. I have yet to go into ANY store, even hi-fi stores, that sell ONLY digital TV's.

Go to your local Best Buy, and TRY TO FIND the HDTV tuner for your standard TV. It's pricey, and they have like 2 in the back room.

This is NOT a reality for most of the USA.

[gshelley61]

As mentioned, the american marketplace will dictate when analog TV is dead. When the price of a decent size HDTV set gets in the $200-$300 range, the average Joe will buy it when his out set craps out.

My wife and I just bought a Toshiba 27" analog set for $230 whose picture quality knocks the socks off our now dead 27" Mitusbishi for which we paid over $800 13 years ago. We knew about the digital TV "deadline" but figured this set would last us until HDTV sets come down in price. Besides, people use their sets for more than watching broadcast TV. A HDTV will not make a DVD look better; in some cases I've seen, it makes it look worst! And what about those VHS tapes....

You can also just buy a ATSC receiver (set top box) that will hook up to your existing TV so you can watch the digital OTA (over-the-air) channels. No need to invest in a TV with a built in digital receiver right away. People are selling VOOM HDTV dish/OTA receivers for $25 on eBay right now because the service shuts down in a few days. They are very good OTA digital receivers... you can simply ignore the dish side of the unit completely.

[EvilWizardGlick]

Gurm
I don't care how they buy anything. Why should you care how others choose to spend their money? They worked for it.
The point is that they are affordable.
Will you continue to create straw men in a vain meaningless attempt to prove your failed point?

[adam]

Gurm the cities were Houston, San Antonio, and Austin and we went to Fry's, Best Buy, Circuit City, and Conns. Like I said, other than small model tv's there was nothing but digital.

Gurm I really don't think you understand the technology we are talking about because you keep saying how expensive HDTV tvs and tuners are. You don't have to upgrade to HDTV anything as a result of the cutoff and you don't have to replace your tv regardless of how old it is. Yes HDTV tuners are pretty expensive but all you need is a digital tuner. By the cutoff date I seriously doubt they will be any more expense than a powered antenna that you use to access over the air broadcasts now. In the meantime analogue sets will progressively be phased out by digital ones and eventually the issue will become moot for the consumer. Can't say the same for the smaller broadcasting stations though...

We are not talking about forcing people to go HDTV. Stop bitching about HDTV! We are talking about forcing people to either buy a cheap tuner or subscribe to a service like cable or satelite. And as mentioned before, the people who are being forced are in the extreme minority.

[offline]

In Australia, the whole digital TV saga has been so badly handled we won't see its true capabilities for many years. The content restrictions are a joke. Anyone who owns content should be able to digicast it!

Excuse me if I have to d/l US sourced HD content. TV is no longer the mass medium it used to be and advertisers are taking note.

[lumis]

okay.. i've got it.. they need to give the law some teeth..

by 2006, or suffer by penalty of death.. the US kills enough people for stupid reasons, why not for not providing HDTV programming in a timely manner?

[gshelley61]

The "big three" networks are providing more and more HD content every month. Fox, WB and UPN are not too far behind. Nearly all the hour-long dramas and many of the half-hour sitcoms are in HD. Even Conan O'Brien is in HD now on NBC.

[richdvd]

Gurm must live in a Cave.

[JSB]

tv's (used to) should last at least 20 years .. 15 at the least .. and a new power supply is only about 75$-$150 (what usually goes first)

Not to thread jack... o well here goes:

I just moved and my 9 year old 32" Sony Trinitron (about $1000 back in the day) and it didn't survive the move to good. The bottom back feet snapped off and an 8" piece of the bottom corner cracked off (where you lift that big sucker when moving). Also some other small grill pieces came off. I could tell by the pieces that the plastic got brittle and just broke in shardes.

When I called arround to get a new case, I was informed that this is common for old Sony TV's of that generation (they switched plastic a few years ago) and the replacement "back" was discontiued in 2001.

TV still works ... but a doubt it will withstand another move

HDTV widescreen here I come.

JSB

[gshelley61]

TV is no longer the mass medium it used to be

Actually, that's not true. Although there has been a gradual expansion of channels to watch (into the hundreds on some cable and satellite systems), the U.S. "big three" network affiliate broadcasters (ABC, CBS, NBC stations) still reach about 80% of the population per week... each! Television reaches more than 97% of U.S. adults every week, and more than 90% of U.S. adults watch TV every day. The average U.S. household now exceeds 8 hours of TV viewing per day... more time spent than ever before (despite the internet, video games, DVD's and all the other media choices there are) and much more time than with any other media. No other media has this kind of mass appeal. The average time spent per day reading the newspaper? Only 25 minutes... and less than 60% of U.S. adults bother to read their daily newspaper at all.

I happen to sell television advertising for a living...

[AlecWest]

During the same period consumers were supposed to buy digital television receivers. That part didn't work.

And they didn't buy them ... en masse. I wonder why? There mu$$$$t be a reason.

[adam]

Yeah but total lack of tv can be a powerful incentive. You should see when my grandpa loses the remote. It is the ONLY way to get him to clean his house.

[rgs_uk]

I don't know if this is relevant to countries other than the UK. But here the BBC recently reported that:

'Thousands of flat panel screens - LCDs (liquid crystal displays), plasma screens, and DLP rear-projection TV sets - have already been sold as "HD", but are in fact not able to display HD.'

...

"The UK is the largest display market in Europe," according to John Binks, director of GfK, which monitors global consumer markets.

But, he added: "Of all the flat panel screens sold, just 1.3% in the UK are capable of getting high-definition."

There are 74 different devices that are being sold as HD but are not HD-ready, according to Alexander Oudendijk, senior vice president of marketing for satellite giant Astra.

They may be fantastic quality TVs, but many do not have adaptors in them - called DVI or HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) connectors - which let the set handle the higher resolution digital images.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4361543.stm

[offline]

I happen to sell television advertising for a living...

Fair enough But I'm in Australia, not the US. I believe radio is up and TV is way down but I'll need
to get some facts to support that.

I also wonder about your stats. What percentage are
paying attention to what they watch or is the TV just on
in the background or playing "minder" ? What is your
approx sample size and profile?

[guns1inger]

It seems that any TV (plasma, lcd especially) capable of accepting a progressive signal through component or DVI etc can label itself HD ready or HD capable. This is regardless of actual display resolution. There are supposed HDTV ready televisions being sold in the market place that have a vertical reolsution that is lower than DVD (my friend's plasma - see earlier rant/post - is something like 864 x 484. Australia is PAL, so he doesn't even get 576 lines). Consumers buy this an wonder why it looks like crap. This is what your sub-US$400 will be. Added to this a refresh of 20ms on LCD and you get los-res ghosts and not much else.

We are being conned into taking less for more on the promise of great things that the industry is incapable of actually delivering.

[gshelley61]

There are displays that have HD resolution... I have a DLP with 1280x720p native pixels. Some 1920x1080 units are starting to appear on the market, too. But, you are right about the numerous "HD Ready" sets that don't have any better display resolution than a typical 27" tube TV. They simply can "accept" a HD signal. It's a scam, for sure. Most consumers have no idea what they are actually buying.

[Nilfennasion]

Gurm must live in a Cave.

Sadly, I am stuck in a town full of such people who come to the conclusion first and then say just about anything that will support it. New technology won't ever take over because current markets aren't fully supportive of it, yada yada... you know how it goes. We heard that one with the compact disc back in 1984 or so. When the DVD was first introduced to Australia, the rentailers claimed its inability to be thrown around willy-nilly without being scratched would mean they would never switch to it.

I have been watching free-to-air broadcasting in digital for six months now. Every time I look at someone else's analogue television, I know I am not sorry I made the switch. Just getting rid of the colour smearing and low-level noise was more than enough reason for me. The fact that I get an uninterrupted picture 95% of the time, as opposed to one that blanks out and requires me to turn the TV's power cycle, has led me to the conclusion that regardless of whether it takes up until 2006, or whether it takes up until 2066, digital will not go away. Simple as that.

Most consumers have no idea what they are actually buying.

Yes, that is true, and instead of educating the consumer about this, they simply leave the consumer to come up with whatever ridiculous conclusion they can. The doozy about widescreen pictures just being cut-downs of the panned and scanned version being my favourite, since you would have to be legally blind to conclude this when looking at the two versions of Basic Instinct or Lawrence Of Arabia. Then again, if more consumers knew how inadequate for assumed purposes some LCD or plasma sets were, there would be rallying of the fair trading police.